Tariffs and Potential Inflation

[VikingsGuy]

The problem is that it is 40 yrs too late. You have to raise tariffs while you still have a full scale viable industry/supply chain. Otherwise it is just an inflation inducing, recession flirting, tit for tat.

 

[SAJ-99]

Let's stop saying others are too stupid.

 

[noharleyyet]

 

[Bonasababy]

Studies fair clearly show that ranked choice ballots actually increase candidate polarization and favors those with extreme positions.

Couple of thoughts:

What studies?

I sometimes see people rail against it without even understanding what it is.

Ballots look similar to below.

Voting continues until one candidate gets a majority. Of all votes--so if 100,000 votes were caste you wait until a winner hits 50,001 or more votes. Multiple vote counts--the lowest vote getter is eliminated in the first round--those that voted for that person get their 2nd choice counted in the 2nd round, and so on until a winner with a majority is reached.

Not hard to see that if forces candidates to appeal to more than a narrow extreme based if they want to up their chances of being elected!

And do you think the states--e.g. Alaska--that have implemented this--have extreme candidates? Certainly not what I see.

Primarily on the right side. States that are broadly considered to have mostly conservative voters--say Alaska or Maine--Murkowski and Collins are great examples of two who do NOT always vote extreme or solidly down their party line.

Term limits are an entirely different issue--not relevant to this. You can have both--easily--if thats what you want.

 

[Bonasababy]

The left brought forward 2 initiatives in Montana this election. Thankfully both went down in flames.

Montanans reject changes to voting, likely dooming two ballot initiatives • Daily Montanan

Two constitutional initiatives in Montana are trailing in early voting.

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These are positions desired and pushed by MODERATE factions--NOT the left. You are making my point that people do not understand what RCV does or who it can help. No party wants it--it takes away from their consolidation of power and as both parties move to the extremes, it requires them to moderate to win elections. In many races now our choices for voting are equally extreme.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Couple of thoughts:

What studies?

I sometimes see people rail against it without even understanding what it is.

Ballots look similar to below.

Voting continues until one candidate gets a majority. Of all votes--so if 100,000 votes were caste you wait until a winner hits 50,001 or more votes. Multiple vote counts--the lowest vote getter is eliminated in the first round--those that voted for that person get their 2nd choice counted in the 2nd round, and so on until a winner with a majority is reached.

Not hard to see that if forces candidates to appeal to more than a narrow extreme based if they want to up their chances of being elected!

And do you think the states--e.g. Alaska--that have implemented this--have extreme candidates? Certainly not what I see.

Primarily on the right side. States that are broadly considered to have mostly conservative voters--say Alaska or Maine--Murkowski and Collins are great examples of two who do NOT always vote extreme or solidly down their party line.

Term limits are an entirely different issue--not relevant to this. You can have both--easily--if thats what you want.

First, I know plenty about the system so you don’t have to give me the official party pamphlet on it or cut and paste a ChatGPT script.

I won’t do all your googling for you but here is one example of my point to get you started.

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/3711206-the-flaw-in-ranked-choice-voting-rewarding-extremists/

Also in my metro we have had it and the result is dozens of crazies scooping up votes amongst a confused electorate and any thing resembling a middle ground has been exterminated from the elected officials in the large city that adopted it.

 

[BigHornRam]

These are positions desired and pushed by MODERATE factions--NOT the left. You are making my point that people do not understand what RCV does or who it can help. No party wants it--it takes away from their consolidation of power and as both parties move to the extremes, it requires them to moderate to win elections. In many races now our choices for voting are equally extreme.

Who funded the initiatives?

 

[antlerradar]

The other option--also little chance of it happening as the two parties both want nothing to do with it--is changing the voting system. Instant run off or ranked choice. Might actually be preferable to a third party IMO. Has the impact of dramatically softening the extremes in both sides. We might see more moderate less crazy candidates from both major parties quickly if that would happen.

No one wants to wait until Thanksgiving to find out who won the election. Probably exaggerating, but long drawn out vote counting plants the seeds of distrust in our elections.

 

[VikingsGuy]

IR/RC do not make it more likely that a mainstream popular 3rd party would win. I makes it so folks can vote for fringe candidates but then have their ballots recast for a mainstream choice. It adds confusion, gamesmanship, increases polarization and the only thing it solves is the "you're going to throw your vote away" argument so that people can virtue signal with their top vote.

 

[Nick87]

you're going to throw your vote away"

Ive thrown mine away before voting independent. Slept just fine knowing it too. But not everyone feels that way though.

 

[BigHornRam]

No one wants to wait until Thanksgiving to find out who won the election. Probably exaggerating, but long drawn out vote counting plants the seeds of distrust in our elections.

The advertisers and political strategists wouldn't mind a second round of revenue though.

 

[Sytes]

Threw my vote away with Trump v Clinton.
Believe i wrote in Powell and Rice. Hah! Nothing comes of the write-in other than an internal satisfaction.

Third party is only as strong as financial backers and "influencers" permit, for starters. Breaking away from the trench fringe would be interesting.

I'm curious why a philanthropist and his/her cohorts have not ventured into this arena. Collective think tank define best routes to enter a viable third party. I imagine their already influenced with their financial success due to one or the other.

Meh.

Born a Ramblin' man...
Sometimes scattering what's in the box (or the chessboard) breaks free from the bull shit. A feel good pigeon moment.

 

[Bonasababy]

The advertisers and political strategists wouldn't mind a second round of revenue though.

What are you taking about?

 

[Bonasababy]

IR/RC do not make it more likely that a mainstream popular 3rd party would win. I makes it so folks can vote for fringe candidates but then have their ballots recast for a mainstream choice. It adds confusion, gamesmanship, increases polarization and the only thing it solves is the "you're going to throw your vote away" argument so that people can virtue signal with their top vote.

I agree it may notprovide any boost to a third party. But if....as many voters lean...your belief of a need for a third party stems from a desire for someone, anyone...that's more moderate than the extremes the two parties often give us, there will be less need for a third party as the system forces candidates to broaden their appeal.

I am not sure it works as well for smaller races with fewer votes though.
..
Now...for anyone who's desires already lean far to one side or another....you'll hate it and fight it as you can get what you want with the movement to the extremes both parties have taken already.

 

[BigHornRam]

What are you taking about?

When you have a runoff, the candidates throw more money out to get elected. Happens often in Georgia.

How Georgia’s Senate Runoff Will Work (Published 2022)

The race between Senator Raphael Warnock and his Republican challenger, Herschel Walker, will be decided on Dec. 6.

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[ignorethefringes]

Threw my vote away with Trump v Clinton.
Believe i wrote in Powell and Rice. Hah! Nothing comes of the write-in other than an internal satisfaction.

Third party is only as strong as financial backers and "influencers" permit, for starters. Breaking away from the trench fringe would be interesting.

I'm curious why a philanthropist and his/her cohorts have not ventured into this arena. Collective think tank define best routes to enter a viable third party. I imagine their already influenced with their financial success due to one or the other.

Meh.

Born a Ramblin' man...
Sometimes scattering what's in the box (or the chessboard) breaks free from the bull shit. A feel good pigeon moment.

I believe Joe Rogan's explanation: The job actually sucks and even running means that every square inch of your life and history is going to be examined, scrutinized, and politized until the last stone is overturned and the last (real or fake) skeleton is pulled from your closet. If you lose you gain almost nothing from having run other than a massive mess to clean up after the fact.