Swift Boat Group Leader Exposed as Fraud

[Nemont]

Chas,

I bet MA already gets much more trickle down then we see in rural Montana. Regardless of public land ranchers, CRP farmers and other federal programs we benefit from.

Your Wag the Dog comment is 100% on the money MM wins because it was a liberal issue. I bet that he won't touch Kerry ever. He will never ever take a democratic president to task on any issue.

EG,
No I don't believe that the Swifties are a grassroots organization. First off there are only a couple of hundred swifties total. Secondly is these guys have a definate agenda.

Do you believe MoveOn.org is a common mans website that just sprung up by popular demand? It is the state of American Politics. I still cannot vote for Kerry so what choices do I have. Waste a vote, vote for Bush and or don't go to the polls and just drink a case of beer and bitch. I have to vote it is my duty.

Nemont

[ 08-21-2004, 08:32: Message edited by: Nemont ]

 

[Ithaca 37]

Remember I mentioned a couple weeks ago that I had spent some time that weekend with one of the Swifties who is on the board of directors of the group. It's real personal with them, and it's not because of what happened in Vietnam. It's because of what Kerry said after he returned.

But doesn't it seen ridiculous to be making such a big deal out of Kerry's service record when we've got a numbskull like Dubya in the Whitehouse and the whole GOP can't find even one National Guard member who ever remembers Dubya showing up for a NG meeting? Find somebody who remembers Dubya at a NG meeting is as hard as finding bin Laden!

 

[Calif. Hunter]

Let me get this straight –

The Democrats are upset that a group disputes the war record that Kerry keeps bringing up.

They are upset that Republican supporters might also support such an ad. (I guess only Democrats are allowed freedom of speech or the right to financially support a group they like.) They are terribly upset that the President does not rebuke some of the Republican Party’s largest financial supporters for running an ad against John Kerry.

The Democrats make this demand that Bush “denounce” the ad, when his campaign has already announced that they are not questioning Kerry’s record.

The Democrats claim that the statements of one of the veterans in the group challenging Kerry’s version of things are in conflict with the official Navy version, which was taken from the reports filed and written by John Kerry.

Meanwhile, most, but not all, of John Kerry’s subordinate crewmen have quit their jobs and are on the Kerry campaign payroll – but that is okay.


The attention of the media is diverted from the actual allegations being made, and is now focused on the apparently unimaginable concept that Republicans might support an anti-Kerry group, and has forgotten that an advertisement, by definition, is an effort to sell a product or an opinion and is paid for by proponents of that product or opinion.

With his diversion, the Democrats have successfully diverted attention from the message to the funding, while doing the same acts they denounce.

Only in America…

 

[feclnogn]

The Democrats are upset that a group disputes the war record that Kerry keeps bringing up.

Actually C. Hunter they are upset because this ad is causing Kerry to slip in the polls. He has lost something like 15 points to Bush on vet support. The same poll revealed that a good portion of the people who see this video think there is some truth to these ads. There is a poll site that I like to follow (although I think that polls right now are somewhat worthless) that is updated everyday. Over the last few days you can see states going from strong Kerry to weak Kerry to statistically tied such as my state NM. The Poll is at

Electoral Vote EV Poll

Most of the states that were advantage Kerry are now weak Kerry. It will be interesting to see how the new Swift vets ad affects Kerry next week. If I was Kerry I would want these off the air and I would do what ever possible to get them off the air such as what Kerry is doing now.

Remember I mentioned a couple weeks ago that I had spent some time that weekend with one of the Swifties who is on the board of directors of the group. It's real personal with them, and it's not because of what happened in Vietnam. It's because of what Kerry said after he returned.

EG see the abvove quote, that is what will drive vets to vote for or against Kerry in the end. I would recommend this film

Return With Honor

It fits your limited paramaters of what is worth while film or book. It is done by an Academy Award winner and won a ton of awards. While not politcal in any manner ie it does not address Jane Fonda and other events, it does go into great detail on what these men went through. The new Swift Vet features some of these men. Now contrast what these men had to endure and what Kerry did when he got back from Vietnam. I really hope you watch it unless you have already seen it. I wonder what your opinion would be on Kerry if you were one of these men.

 

[Muledeer4me]

"Cali, where did you get the information that Kerry wrote the report that was for Thurlow's medal??? You have a scoop, as the rest of the world was unable to come to that conclusion."


Friday, Aug. 20, 2004 12:08 a.m. EDT
Swiftvet Backs Thurlow's Version in Bronze Star Imbroglio

("The Swift Boat vet who came under attack on Thursday for saying that John Kerry didn't deserve his Bronze Star because he wasn't under enemy attack at the time has been corroborated by another Swiftvet who witnessed the episode.

In its first serious coverage of the Swiftvet controversy so far, the Washington Post obtained the citation for Larry Thurlow's Bronze Star, which was awarded for the same action that earned Kerry his medal.

Story Continues Below



Thurlow's citation claims that he came under "constant enemy small arms fire," a description seized on by Kerry backers to discredit all the Swiftvets' claims.
Thurlow maintains, however, that the citation was inaccurate.

Fellow Swiftvet Andy Horne backed Thurlow's claim on Thursday, saying that the reason for the discrepancy was because Kerry himself wrote up the skirmish after-action report, exaggerating Thurlow's valor along with his own in order to secure the decoration.

"Nobody saw the after-action message that generated any awards out of that action until very recently," Horne told radio host Steve Malzberg, who was filling in for Linda Chavez on the Liberty Broadcasting Network.

Horne said that when Kerry's account of the skirmish turned up on his campaign Web site, the reaction from a number of Swiftvets was "Wait a minute, it didn't happen that way."

Kerry was in the habit of writing up the after-action reports himself, Horne told Malzberg, "and John Kerry's message then becomes the basis" for the enemy fire claim.

"The Navy system trusts officers to write the truth," Horne said, indicating that in Kerry's case, that trust was misplaced.

The Swiftvet said that Thurlow didn't even receive his Bronze Star citation until he was back home in Kansas, at which point the "enemy fire" discrepancy seemed like a moot issue.")

 

[JoseCuervo]

Hey MD,

I don't think Thurlow's claim that Kerry wrote the citation report is believable, due to Thurlow's own struggles with the truth.

YOu might want to do some reading before you make claims like that. The Washington Post, that broke the story on the fraud that is Thurlow said they were unable to determine who wrote the report.

You gotta like somebody like Thurlow, who is for the "truth", but has not been worried about what he did to deserve his own medal for the last 34 years.....

 

[Nemont]

EG,

Maybe you could get on my buddy plan for XM . Satelite radio is great for me because I get so much windshield time in. The only mistake I made was I got it permanently installed in my car rather then buying the module you can move.

I happen to agree with you that the swifties may backfire on president Bush. Note Mars that is my opinion nothing else.

American Politics needs to have a viable and strong 3rd party that would take in the middle of the political spectrum. The problem is that neither of the current parties would ever allow that to happen. It would have to be driven by the American people who have a pretty overall apathetic record lately in being politcally active at all.

As for Kerry's complaint to the FEC that most likely will result in nothing being done. Make's Kerry appear to be able to dish out but not take it. Look at how the Whitehouse is painting him as not being able to keep his cool.


Nemont

 

[Muledeer4me]

"said they were unable to determine who wrote the report."

So the truth is ?
You believe Kerry ,or you believe Thurlow.
It hasn't been determined yet.
Kerry has been proven to a straight shooter ? LOL Give us a break.

 

[Muledeer4me]

BIG JOHN (KERRY)


"Every mornin' on the Hill you could see him arrive

Standing six-foot-four, weighing one-twenty-five

Kinda' scrawny at the shoulders and lacking a spine

And when he spoke at all, it was mainly to whine.

(Big John, Big John) Big Bad John.


Nobody seems to know what's in John's soul

His 'beliefs' are based on the latest poll

Though he'll say what it takes to get your votes

It's the leftist agenda that he really promotes

Big John.


Some one said he came from Boston town

Where he joined the Navy and gained renown

'Earning' three purple hearts and one bronze star

The home folks said, "This boy will go far"

(Big John, Big John) Big Bad John (Big John)


Then came a day back in '71

When he renounced all the medals that he had won

Then turned against his country and his Navy friends

And sold them out for his own selfish ends

(Big John)


He appeared before Congress and on left-wing talk shows

Giving aid and comfort to America's foes

It was clear to see whose side he was on

Some say he helped cause the fall of Saigon

Big John (Big John, Big John) Big Bad John (Big John).


He claims to be for the working poor

Yet he owns 5 mansions from shore to shore

He never had to work a day in his life

'Cause he learned it helps to have a wealthy wife!

Big John


Now he wants to be our next President

and Commander-in-chief of those he resents

The American soldiers who fight and die

To give him the freedom to tell us his lies

(Big John, Big John) Big Bad John (Big John)


Thousands have sacrificed their young lives

To help ensure that our nation survives

A vote for Kerry is a slap in the face

To all the brave soldiers that he's disgraced

(Big John, Big John) Big Bad John (Big John)"

 

[Michaelr]

Here is a link to see the t.v. ad done by the swift boat vets.

Click Here, swft boat vet t.v. ad

 

[Michaelr]

So E.G. You want me to believe a career politician over a bunch of vietnam veterans?


You have painted yourself as a hipocrit, You just love Michael Moore jelly please, And its fine for Soros to spend Millions, Yet you call a bunch of veterans liars?? PLLLEEEEEEEASE.........

I guess whatever fits for your agenda.

 

[Ithaca 37]

mike, Look who's calling a bunch of veterans "liars" now! How are the vets who weren't actually there with Kerry and the other two cammanders going to explain their way out of this? Who ya gonna believe, two commanders who were there or a bunch who weren't?

"Navy Commander, Journalist, Backs Kerry on Vietnam......................An American journalist who commanded a boat alongside John Kerry (news - web sites) in Vietnam broke a 35-year silence on Saturday and defended the Democratic presidential candidate against Republican critics of his military service............."There were three swift boats on the river that day in Vietnam more than 35 years ago -- three officers and 15 crew members. Only two of those officers remain to talk about what happened on February 28, 1969," he wrote in a story that appeared on the newspaper's Web site on Saturday.


"One is John Kerry, the Democratic presidential candidate who won a Silver Star for what happened on that date. I am the other."..................."

READ THIS AND TELL US WHO YOU BELIEVE!!!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1896&ncid=1896&e=1&u=/nm/20040821/us_nm/campaign_kerry_dc

Hey mike, how's this new information fit into your agenda?????

 

[JoseCuervo]

Nemont,

No, I don't believe MoveOn is a common man's organziation.

And I agree that you should vote for Dubya, as you have sound reasoning and have thought out why you vote. That is the way the system works. It is quite obvious you read everything you can find on BOTH sides. That is good enough reason to know who to vote for.

The part I struggle with is when I see other people being fed BS, and they aren't bright enough to call BS or question it. One of the posters here actually thought Kerry owned the Heinz corporation and was responsible for moving jobs overseas. The same person also thought Kerry owned 5 houses worth $30 million.... And he was using that kind of stuff to justify his vote.

When I hear people saying you can't vote for Kerry, as he will take all your guns away, I know they are not read on the issues. Look at the lady who keeps posting stuff about being afraid of Kerry due to his rating by the Doris Day group...

The swifties WERE being passed off as veterans and people who "served" with John Kerry, and now they have been exposed as Texan Oil men who have found a bunch of vets to manipulate. The group has no credibility, and may even begin to backfire on Dubya.

Cali,
You don't have a lot of your "facts" straight, so you may want to be leery of your conclusions....

The Dems are upset with the FALSE accusations in the ads, and the illegal coordination with the GOP. NOt with free speech.

If Dubya's campaign won't attack Kerry for Viet Nam, why does Rove's buddy keep funding the false ads. If Rove felt they shouldn't attack Kerry, don't you think he could shut it down, if he wanted????

Cali, where did you get the information that Kerry wrote the report that was for Thurlow's medal??? You have a scoop, as the rest of the world was unable to come to that conclusion.

Where did you get the information that Kerry's crew has all quit their jobs and is working for Kerry???

Cali, you may want to go check them SAT scores, as your ability to draw concepts out of material you have read is somewhat suspect.....

 

[JoseCuervo]

MD,


It is pretty sad how you aren't able to carry on an adult conversation/debate. Since I can't compare your writing to anything before the accident, I guess I will just have to chalk it all up to damage that has affected you from the accident.

Hopefully others will learn to wear a helmet.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Michael,

I would never tell you who to believe, you have to make those kind of decisions on your own. Part of being a responisble member of society.

I will point out who is not to be believed, and of the Swifties, Hoffman, Thurlow, the guy from Oregon, Leetson have all been proven to be people who struggle with the truth.

And now Ithica finds another vet who actually SERVED with Kerry, who is refuting the garbage that O'Neil is writing in his hatchett job book.

If you are gulliable enough to believe people who are being discredited, one by one, then that is good for you.

 

[Calif. Hunter]

Thurlow was there - that is the action that got him a bronze star. Now this guy is claiming that Thurlow wasn't there and he was? Other people who were there besides Thurlow, and even Rassman, have expressed uncertainty as to whether the firing going on was hostile or friendly. Having served on small boats in Vietnam, I can say that it was common practice to fire into the cover along the banks while doing a recovery/other boat assistance, after the detonation of a command detonated mine or during the extraction of ground forces. It also seems funny that one guy who "served" on another boat than Kerry, did not "serve" with Kerry if he discredits Kerry, but another guy on a different boat who supports Kerry did "serve" with him.

I find it hard to believe a man who has been proven on numerous occasions to have lied, as John Kerry has lied.

Just because somebody is my friend does not mean that they can tell me how and who to support financially.

[ 08-21-2004, 15:45: Message edited by: Calif. Hunter ]

 

[JoseCuervo]

Uhhh...Cali,
I am still a bit uncertain why you would be bragging about your SAT scores, based on your reading comprehension.....

The guy who is refuting the lies of the Swifties, after 34 years of silence is referring to the incident that earned Kerry the Silver Star. The one O'Neil discredits in his book. You need to work on keeping your comprehension skills up, as they seem to have faded since you were voted Mr. Most Likely at Long Beach Boys School....

Cali, Did you win a Silver Star or a Bronze Star? And if you did, would you know what was on the citation, and the events surrounding it? I still find it difficult to believe that Thurlow, who is committed to the "truth", didn't know why he had been passing himself off as a "decorated" veteran for the last 30+ years....

 

[Calif. Hunter]

I have a few medals and served almost 18 months in Vietnam, but I am not going to talk about anything that you will simply use to ridicule me. I respect myself and my friends who died while I survived too much to let you attack that.

Since the post does not reference which day 35 years ago, how am I supposed to know which incident is being discussed? I just figured that it would be the one related to the topic of this post, which is the one Thurlow was involved in. Is this a different incident? If so, how does it discredit Thurlow?

 

[Michaelr]

Ithaca that story didn't say much at all,
except...............

In the Chicago Tribune article, Rood said Kerry urged him to go public with his account.

I wonder how much it cost?

I still haven't read or heard of anything of any factual value linking Pres. Bush to the swifties.

But there is Kerry up to his eyeballs in it.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Cali,
I didn't ask WHY you got your medals. I am just curious if you KNOW why you got the medals? I am trying to learn how realistic it is for some Vet to not know WHY he got his medals (Thurlow), but be all excited about why Kerry got his.

Just curious if Thurlow is typical, with his not knowing why he got his medals, or if that is odd that somebody would not know.

As for how you are supposed to KNOW which event the Reporter was explaining, I guess that would just have to be up to you to ACTUALLY read Ithica's link.....