Strange bedfellows for a pro public land administration

[TheJason]

And more importantly they are winning the public opinion. They are convincing people that dirty water and air pollution are not only morally just but patriotic.

National security, bruh.

 

[SAJ-99]

And more importantly they are winning the public opinion. They are convincing people that dirty water and air pollution are not only morally just but patriotic.

I'm not sure if they are winning public support or not. They are certainly dictating the narrative - that those regulations that resulted in clean air and water are burdensome to economic development and are unnecessary because we have clean air and water. Note the amazing irony. The administration didn't put the death of the BLM or EPA and public land transfer up for a vote because they don't want congress members in red states to have to make a public choice. A lot of them got elected by defending public lands, at least in statements. It would probably be the last vote many of them would take in their positions, and they know it. Instead, the administration kills things it doesn't like by economic asphyxiation. Choke off the money, the quality people become overworked and eventually leave, and the department dies on its own.

 

[Sytes]

The extreme polarization of politics is subjecting people to join one side or the other. If Public Lands were the ONLY issue facing this great nation - Sure as heck would be 100% aboard. However, as mentioned, "We are our worst enemy."

The extreme polarization will continue if Dems proceed to nominate an extreme for 2020 Prez. Want to bring the middle ground back to a neutral position where support of public lands takes a greater position, we need to watch who is nominated. Find a far better nominee who the middle ground may view as potentially able to reach across party aisles? We may have begun to work our way towards lessening our own worst enemy stigma.

This "bedfellows" issue will not change if there is not a better selection to vote for... Public Lands is not in the top five of the 330 million Americans who are *legal to vote.





edit: Fudged up "We are out worst enemy." edited to , "We are our worst enemy."

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

In today's political climate I feel it's hard for any candidate to take a hard in depth stance on public lands. Sounds silly cause it seems most Americans can agree that public lands are awesome, but most Americans cant agree on why public lands are awesome. So by taking a hard in depth stance on public lands you will create division among the people with different opinions on the way the lands are utilized.
Animal rights activists vs. The hunters, tree huggers vs. The logger, environmentalists vs. The energy companies of all types, hunters vs. Energy companies, naturalists vs everybody, and the list goes on. For these reasons the issues of public land are not worth the time for candidates other than the passing comment such as "we must honor our public lands as americans"
Nobody can agree on a big picture that can benefit all because of the political climate that has been created. We have an entire generation of AOC's that are extreme one way or the other and that cannot change overnight unfortunately and the status quo on public land of the last 30 years will continue.

In 1990 we had 646 million acres of public land today we have 614 million acres.

 

[SAJ-99]

The extreme polarization of politics is subjecting people to join one side or the other. If Public Lands were the ONLY issue facing this great nation - Sure as heck would be 100% aboard. However, as mentioned, "We are out worst enemy."

The extreme polarization will continue if Dems proceed to nominate an extreme for 2020 Prez. Want to bring the middle ground back to a neutral position where support of public lands takes a greater position, we need to watch who is nominated. Find a far better nominee who the middle ground may view as potentially able to reach across party aisles? We may have begun to work our way towards lessening our own worst enemy stigma.

This "bedfellows" issue will not change if there is not a better selection to vote for... Public Lands is not in the top five of the 330 million Americans who are *legal to vote.

I largely agree, but I don't think oil and gas drilling regulations is in the top five issues for voters either, but we see if you can dictate the narrative you can swing opinion. The political environment is toxic. Obama was moderate and yet wasn't able to accomplish anything because by that time reaching across the aisle was viewed as "giving in". Today we see subversive actions done to these organizations unilaterally that will do more long term damage than any overt legislation would have. The way forward is partnerships that accomplish things for both sides. But that is really easy for me to type.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Obama was moderate

Agreed with your points, but Obama was definitely not a moderate. He may have tried really hard to come across that way but he definitely was not. Last time I checked he was still out apologizing to somebody for being American.

 

[SAJ-99]

Agreed with your points, but Obama was definitely not a moderate. He may have tried really hard to come across that way but he definitely was not. Last time I checked he was still out apologizing to somebody for being Americ

It's all relative. If Obama or Bush II were not moderate to you, you are lost to tribalism. The middle is disappearing and the system is forcing people to pick a side. It makes me ill to even think about it. What I worry about is hunters thinking they are picking the side that benefits them but in the end will get screwed over. As an earlier post said, pay attention to actions rather than words, because the words flow from politicians like crap from a cow.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Moderates in the oval office left when obama arrived. I dont need to go into a long list of crap cause its irrelevant to this thread. But just one example is imposing a fine on a healthy guy in his 20s who travels the country guiding with the seasons for not having health insurance is not a moderate action. That guy is me and it's my right to choose if I want health insurance or not. Forcing me to buy it is about as moderate as Cuba.

 

[406dn]

It is not an unreasonable expectiation that able bodied adults be partially responsible for the health care risk that is theirs. While you are out living the dream, others are working, earning their health insurance. Part of their costs is picking up the tab for the uninsured. That is a significant part in the ever increasing cost of health insurance.

Now if people who choose to be free riders, knowing that by law they can't be denied care, could be billed for that service without being able to declare bankruptcy, I could care less if they take the risk. That world doesn't exist. My son did not like the mandate. I told him he got to skate for 26 years, and it was time to grow up.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

It is not an unreasonable expectiation that able bodied adults be partially responsible for the health care risk that is theirs. While you are out living the dream, others are working, earning their health insurance. Part of their costs is picking up the tab for the uninsured. That is a significant part in the ever increasing cost of health insurance.

Now if people who choose to be free riders, knowing that by law they can't be denied care, could be billed for that service without being able to declare bankruptcy, I could care less if they take the risk. That world doesn't exist. My son did not like the mandate. I told him he got to skate for 26 years, and it was time to grow up.

I must of misread that part on my paycheck that has the deductions all them years I was free riding and "living the dream" or maybe you think people that are "living the dream" dont pay those deductions cause you know their "living the dream"

You call me a free rider while i was "living the dream". Well while "living the dream" in Tennessee I was bit by a brown recluse in the middle of the night. I was unaware it was a bite from a recluse so I let it go. I had to go the ER and get it cut out and receive other medical attention for it. It cost me over $2000. Guess what this irresponsible free rider paid for it completely with his own free rider money from his free rider "living the dream" job. With no help from you or the other non free riders of the time.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

I told him he got to skate for 26 years, and it was time to grow up

Sorry you let your son skate for 26 years. But I was not skating. I worked hard to live that dream and paid my taxes and my bills and paid for any medical issues I had and my dental visits and my eye doctor visits and my contacts. Once again with NO HELP from you or other non free riders of the time.

So yes its unreasonable to ask me to pay for your skating son when I was busy paying for my own stuff.

Your son is probably a great guy so I dont mean to disrespect him. But I dont like being called a free rider from someone who doesnt know me at all.

 

[406dn]

Sorry you let your son skate for 26 years. But I was not skating. I worked hard to live that dream and paid my taxes and my bills and paid for any medical issues I had and my dental visits and my eye doctor visits and my contacts. Once again with NO HELP from you or other non free riders of the time.

So yes its unreasonable to ask me to pay for your skating son when I was busy paying for my own stuff.

Your son is probably a great guy so I dont mean to disrespect him. But I dont like being called a free rider from someone who doesnt know me at all.

First you didn't pay for my son's insurance. I earned it thru my job. He could stay on my insurance until he turned 26, part of the Affordable Care Act. He then had to pony up for his own insurance. He would have preferred to spend that money some other way but part of being an adult is taking career of business.

You were fortunate that your spider bite was your medical cost. It could have just as easily been the aftermath of a bad auto wreck. Then the bill would have quite easily exceeded 50-100k.

I understand you don't like being called a free rider. Well, I earned a living and met every responsibility that raising children involves. That was not made easier by also having to pick up part of the tab from people who could have taken care of their business.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

First you didn't pay for my son's insurance. I earned it thru my job. He could stay on my insurance until he turned 26, part of the Affordable Care Act. He then had to pony up for his own insurance. He would have preferred to spend that money some other way but part of being an adult is taking career of business.

You were fortunate that your spider bite was your medical cost. It could have just as easily been the aftermath of a bad auto wreck. Then the bill would have quite easily exceeded 50-100k.

I understand you don't like being called a free rider. Well, I earned a living and met every responsibility that raising children involves. That was not made easier by also having to pick up part of the tab from people who could have taken care of their business.

Thank you for being a responsible adult and father.
I do think it's incredibly unreasonable and unconstitutional for the government to force me to buy something. And it's definitely not a moderate policy. So we will have to agree to disagree on that mandate.

I do have my own health insurance now that I am getting older and have other responsibilities. Responsibilities that are mine and created by me not others. So I'm not free riding anymore and never was.

 

[Irrelevant]

As an earlier post said, pay attention to actions rather than words, because the words flow from politicians like crap from a cow.

So many examples of this the last 3.5 years concerning public lands. Say something positive but do something negative and the herds of sheeple will never know the difference.

I apologize... in general, I'm quite pissed and bitter today.

 

[Doublecluck]

So many examples of this the last 3.5 years concerning public lands. Say something positive but do something negative and the herds of sheeple will never know the difference.

I apologize... in general, I'm quite pissed and bitter today.

It’s not that the shepple don’t know the difference, the shepple are just as much PISSED about (insert another issue here) as you are about public lands.

 

[SAJ-99]

It’s not that the shepple don’t know the difference, the shepple are just as much PISSED about (insert another issue here) as you are about public lands.

That’s a valid argument if most of it wasn’t pseudo outrage based on some BS conspiracy theory. If someone wants to be mad about paying the tax for the ACA, that is legit, although might demonstrate a misunderstanding of the economics of healthcare insurance. A lot of the rest of it seems like just being mad because they have too much time on their hands.

 

[Doublecluck]

That’s a valid argument if most of it wasn’t pseudo outrage based on some BS conspiracy theory. If someone wants to be mad about paying the tax for the ACA, that is legit, although might demonstrate a misunderstanding of the economics of healthcare insurance. A lot of the rest of it seems like just being mad because they have too much time on their hands.

Conspiracy theory? Pseudo outrage? I could go on a two page rant about things people are pissed about that are not relevant to this topic but more relevant to them than public lands. Not things They are seeing on fox or cnn but things that have directly effected their lives. You can downplay that all you want, but I wouldn’t give that opinion much more validity than a oct 2016 presidential poll.

Ps- I don’t know squat about the economics of healthcare, all I know is what this middle class family could buy for 450 bucks a month before ACA now costs around 1200+ a month and it’s not as good.

 

[warmer]

If our government would address the real problem, health care cost, and not health insurance this conversation would have ended 20 posts ago. But there is way to much at stack financially for politicians to curb health care costs.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

I do not need a masters in economics to know that Obama's mandate was unconstitutional and not moderate.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

you are lost to tribalism.

If you think the ACA was a moderate policy then I guess were both lost to tribalism.

Thank God it was a disaster because it was the prelude to total govt control of your healthcare. Nothing moderate about govt controlled healthcare.

I digress tho as this is getting way off topic and stupid just like every mark thread.