Straight Talk: Time to Rethink the Drinking Age

[Deleted member 28227]

I hope you will agree that it is a lot harder for an underaged person to buy alcohol compared to going to a bar legally. I’m not sure why a bar is better than the alternative. You have to drive home.

I don’t. We are discussing 18-20 year olds. I never had an issue getting into bars let alone purchasing or going to parties with alcohol. Certainly more difficult for a 15 year old, but absolutely not a 19 year old. I still get carded every time I buy a can of spray paint at Home Depot but I can’t remember the last time I was carded at a bar or liquor store.

Parties at peoples houses, in the woods, kids are driving, no different than bars. Rural states lack of safe transportation is a totally different issue in my mind, how does a 40 year old get home from the bar…

Drinking and driving is a huge issue but I think it’s unrelated to the drinking age.

Underage drinking is widely accepted in our society, the law is pointless and IMHO the only effect is encouraging unsafe consumption.

 

[rwc101]

Behavior change would probably lag behind the legal change. I think a lot of behavior would change once it's no longer "cool" to have access to alcohol as a 17 year old.

 

[OntarioHunter]

I like this. And it resonates with me some. I graduated 2010. Did all my drinking and drugs way too young now that I’m a father, but, I survived and grew out of it by the time I was aloud to go drink legally.. i still drink beer every day though. Haha. When I moved here at 13, I was expelled in California for a knife i had brought to school just in case.. rough neighborhood won’t get into that.. It fell out in PE and some kid told on me. When I moved to Montana as a freshman in high school, not only did ALL these kids have box cutters and knives clipped on their pants; they had GUNS on their trucks back windows in school!! I loved the lifestyle immediately my father raised me a country boy surrounded by city folk so I understood. But the irony kills me to this day. My grandparents can’t stand to see our fireworks display right now says it sounds like WW3! I say it sounds like freedom!! They get $500 crimestoppers if they turn in someone there, my 4 & 7 year old are lighting them off… Culture difference and political bias is too real.. I’m so glad they can’t come here and vote

Definitely too hot and dry there right now for fireworks. Way too hot and dry! There's a reason for the ban. Listen to your grandparents. I don't know how smart they are but it's a sure thing they have more wisdom than you. Two dead people in Lytton, BC north of you because the town burned up before they could get out. Smoke showed up, then flames, then town on fire all in a matter of a few minutes. Latest news says the fire was man caused. Given the Canada Day availability of the gawdam things, I would be surprised if fireworks wasn't what started it. Freedom is a great thing ... but no one has the right to put other people's lives or property at risk celebrating it.

 

[2ski]

Lots of alcohol abuse and related health problems all over the world no doubt, but the US does seem to have a particularly aggressive teen culture around binge drinking that you don't see in Europe. Members of my work team routinely live abroad with their families and their teens self-report that US teens obsession with getting blackout drunk is unique in their experience. YMMV.

They just go to raves and drop X. So I guess....

 

[Flatbrimmer]

Definitely too hot and dry there right now for fireworks. Way too hot and dry! There's a reason for the ban. Listen to your grandparents. I don't know how smart they are but it's a sure thing they have more wisdom than you. Two dead people in Lytton, BC north of you because the town burned up before they could get out. Smoke showed up, then flames, then town on fire all in a matter of a few minutes. Latest news says the fire was man caused. Given the Canada Day availability of the gawdam things, I would be surprised if fireworks wasn't what started it. Freedom is a great thing ... but no one has the right to put other people's lives or property at risk celebrating it.

We’ve gotten heavy rain every night here in Belgrade for the last 3-4 days and the whole day yesterday prior to fireworks. I understand much of the state- and country isn’t so fortunate. Not saying their dumb by any means.. just cannot co-sign them saying we shouldn’t here, because they cannot there. Same with their shitty doe hunting laws…

 

[Flatbrimmer]

Also, it’s no seasonal ban on fireworks in the Bay Area of California.. if it gets off the ground- it’s illegal..

 

[RobG]

I don’t. We are discussing 18-20 year olds. I never had an issue getting into bars let alone purchasing or going to parties with alcohol. Certainly more difficult for a 15 year old, but absolutely not a 19 year old. I still get carded every time I buy a can of spray paint at Home Depot but I can’t remember the last time I was carded at a bar or liquor store.

Parties at peoples houses, in the woods, kids are driving, no different than bars. Rural states lack of safe transportation is a totally different issue in my mind, how does a 40 year old get home from the bar…

Drinking and driving is a huge issue but I think it’s unrelated to the drinking age.

Underage drinking is widely accepted in our society, the law is pointless and IMHO the only effect is encouraging unsafe consumption.

wllm - that's an enforcement and punishment issue, not a problem with the concept. People buying beer are carded in all the places I go. The licenses now have a scan code so they can't be faked. Licenses for people under 21 now are vertical instead of horizonal. None of that will stop a bartender that doesn't care about the law, but most places apparently do care. I'm not sure how it can get easier to cross the street from the dorms and legally get smashed when I was 19.

I believe you and Riley that we in MT have a drinking culture (and lack of penalties) that makes alcohol easier to get. However, with respect, I don't think either you or Riley were born when Reagan forced us to change the law to 21 so I'm not sure how you can make a comparison.

BTW, you were the one saying bars are a safer place to drink.

 

[grizzly_]

Drinking and driving is a huge issue but I think it’s unrelated to the drinking age.

Not if the science shows that the earlier a person starts to drink alcohol the higher the likelihood they'll develop alcohol dependency later in life.

Also, it's pretty uncommon for high school kids to go party with college kids (unless they're cute girls, anyway), but once the 17 and 18 year-olds can legally drink alcohol my belief is that the 15 and 16 year-olds will have much greater access to it since they're more often in social settings together.

I can see lots of circumstantial evidence, and some empirical, that the drinking age shouldn't be lowered. I'm not seeing nearly the breadth or depth of evidence as to why it should... just lots of anecdotal suppositions.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

wllm - that's an enforcement and punishment issue, not a problem with the concept. People buying beer are carded in all the places I go. The licenses now have a scan code so they can't be faked. Licenses for people under 21 now are vertical instead of horizonal. None of that will stop a bartender that doesn't care about the law, but most places apparently do care. I'm not sure how it can get easier to cross the street from the dorms and legally get smashed when I was 19.

I believe you and Riley that we in MT have a drinking culture (and lack of penalties) that makes alcohol easier to get. However, with respect, I don't think either you or Riley were born when Reagan forced us to change the law to 21 so I'm not sure how you can make a comparison.

BTW, you were the one saying bars are a safer place to drink.

I’m saying as far as incidence of acute alcohol poisoning go, bars are safer.

We shouldn’t make laws about the .01% of the population that lives in rural Montana. The vast majority of 18-20s can uber home.

@grizzly_ you’re interjecting logical fallacies. I’m saying 18. Freshman in college should be legally allowed to drink at bars. 18 year olds in the military should be allowed to drink at bars. Those outside of highschool should be allowed to drink at bars.

Kids who are drinking at 18, like myself and I imagine a vast majority of my generation would be safer if it was done under controlled circumstances, ie going to a brewery and having a couple beers where adults are drinking responsibly, not in the woods or at someone’s house whose parents are out with a handle of vodka they got from someone’s older sibling and getting shitfaced.

Current laws don’t work and they have negative effects, it’s not that I think an 18 year old should drink, I don’t, but they will and we should be focused on better outcomes.

 

[grizzly_]

@grizzly_ you’re interjecting logical fallacies. I’m saying 18. Freshman in college should be legally allowed to drink at bars. 18 year olds in the military should be allowed to drink at bars. Those outside of highschool should be allowed to drink at bars.

I was 18 in high school, as were many others. As to the logical fallacies claim... I would argue that the idea that legalizing alcohol for 18 year-olds will somehow make them only drink "under controlled circumstances" and not around a campfire with friends or in their basement after a breakup would qualify as such.

But as I mentioned, we're all making suppositions here.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I was 18 in high school, as were many others. As to the logical fallacies claim... I would argue that the idea that legalizing alcohol for 18 year-olds will somehow make them only drink "under controlled circumstances" and not around a campfire with friends or in their basement after a breakup would qualify as such.

But as I mentioned, we're all making suppositions here.

I never said teens should drink, they should not. I never argued that.

Also, 18 year olds. A drinking age of 18. “Well if the 17-18 year olds are allowed to drink then the 15 to 16 year olds”

My argument is that alcohol is dangerous, because of that fact we have erected some safe guards. Specifically rules against bartenders over serving patrons. I think we would be better off if 18-20 year olds were subject to those same safe guards when they first start drinking. My argument is it would “mitigate some”, not “stop all”. A nationwide 18, (probably a decent argument for 19) drinking age would, net likely be a good thing.

————————————-

I went to college in VT, we frequented Canada a lot, I experienced the difference in the systems first hand.

I was also an RA in college, my family owner a bar/restaurant growing up. I spent 7 years working either as a server or bartender.

When I’m college the former President of my college John McCardell advocated for a change in the us drinking age. As you might expect this was a subject we discussed extensively on campus.

None of this should give my opinion any more weight, I’m simply sharing my life experience that has lead me to form my opinion and sharing that I have been wrestling with this topic since when the OP original made the post.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Let Them Drink at 18, With a Learner's Permit - NYTimes.com

www.nytimes.com

College Presidents Urge Rethink On Drinking Age

The presidents of about 100 U.S. colleges are calling on lawmakers to consider lowering the drinking age to 18. John McCardell, the former president of Middlebury College in Vermont, says his group, the Amethyst Initiative, is against intoxication but supports responsible, adult behavior toward...

www.npr.org

 

[geetar]

My God this thread is old. I was 16 years old when this thread started.

Someone was starting this thread while you and your high school buddies were drinking underage. The irony is kinda funny.

 

[thebestusernamesaretaken]

If your old enough to go to war for your country then your old enough to get wasted.

 

[devon deer]

Time to realize that the West European view of alcohol creates fewer problems. Drop the drinking age to 15-16, make it less of a big deal.

Legal age in UK is 18, I remember when I was 16 me and my mates were cycling to local pubs trying to get served, most times it didn't work.
I invited my local landlord to my 18th party, he said 'how can that be you have been in my pub for 2 years!'
But also stated myself and my mates had never, ever, caused a problem, but in those days we couldn't afford to have more than 3 pints as we were broke!.

My kids are grown up now, too be honest I wasn't that worried about them and their relationship to drinking alcohol, I was more concerned about drugs, thankfully they never experimented with the latter, as far as I know!

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Someone was starting this thread while you and your high school buddies were drinking underage. The irony is kinda funny.

Yeah bro we got skin in the game.

 

[Akcabin]

I feel it should be changed. The laws of the land consider you an adult. The government trains you to be able to go to war n kill. Your an adult. At age 18.
Now a young adult can't even have a smoke ! Or a beer. N things ain't changed. Except for more government and more costs. An American can't even have a smoke in their own business.
Maybe because I grew up in the 70s. Used to go around n collect dollar bills for a beer party in the woods. Drove hot cars, still do.
I'm tired of government trying to save me. And folks who say "well we have to do something ".