Elky Welky
Well-known member
I assumed you'd have some pithy wisdom for us @Ben Long, which is why I tagged you in this post. Thanks!
Stop Blaming Conservation Orgs
- Thread starter Elky Welky
- Start date
BuzzH
Well-known member
Ben gave some good advice, and as a BHA board member, I long ago quit caring what anyone or any other group thought about the work we do here in Wyoming. It's a waste of my time and I simply don't care anymore. If someone doesn't like it, good, fill out a hurt feelings report and come do it better. I'm being serious about that, I know others could do things better than I do, but nobody seems to want to step up. That said, when I sink my teeth into something that I feel is going to help wildlife, access, hunters, fishermen, etc. I typically don't let up.
That said, it would be wise to look at the work that RCFWA does...and I sent them a life membership a long time ago for a couple reasons. 1. The impact they had on elk, deer, and predator management in Montana. In my 43 years of hunting Montana, I saw no other group influence management. I can tell you that I still don't know how they pulled that off, when there was a statewide push to change NOTHING. Status quo was the norm and yet, they were influential enough to change the Bitterroot, significantly. I can tell you for a fact that doesn't happen in a vacuum. 2. For the record, I rarely hunt the Bitterroot, but I recognize good work when I see it, and Tony, Robert and the others there flat get it done. 3. I was hopeful that other groups in Montana would take notice and make changes in other parts of the State. 4. I think we need to get more of these local hook and bullet groups back. In the past, these groups were, in many ways, much more dialed in, connected, and aware of the issues. The big national orgs have a place, but NOBODY knows more, or cares more, about local issues than those that it impacts the most. These local groups will go to the mat when they see problems.
I'm also a life member of BHA as well, for much the same reasons. The State Chapters are given quite a bit of control over what issues they choose to tackle locally. Since many groups like RCFWA have disappeared in Wyoming, the WY BHA Chapter is trying to fill that void. If I had my way, I'd like to see the resurgence of the local hook and bullet groups. But again, there are a lot of "talkers" and very few "doers" in these issues.
Also fair to note, that there are also a handful of people that belong to no groups at all that do a tremendous amount of work that goes unrecognized. Hunters and Anglers that have a lot of influence simply from being involved for a long time.
Finally, I have stopped trying to defend what I do in regard to wildlife/access, etc. advocacy both what I do on my own behalf and while representing BHA. If some people don't like it, well, tough...pick a number and jump in line. I don't work and donate my time for fragile ego's, naysayers, and the do-nothing but complain crowd. I work for access, wildlife, hunting, fishing, etc.
"Pissing people off doesn't mean you're doing the right things, but doing the right things will almost inevitably piss people off."---Colin Powell
Elky Welky
Well-known member
My post wasn't meant to offend all the grassroots orgs and individuals that do great work. If that was misconstrued, then I apologize.
The point was that we are in this together. And a problem I keep seeing is that every time someone raises a real issue, there are individuals that seem more inclined to blame those in the ring than trying to address the actual problem. What happened with Hunt Quietly recently, and my examples of BHA and MWF, were just that: examples of how this problem plays out.
The point was that we are in this together. And a problem I keep seeing is that every time someone raises a real issue, there are individuals that seem more inclined to blame those in the ring than trying to address the actual problem. What happened with Hunt Quietly recently, and my examples of BHA and MWF, were just that: examples of how this problem plays out.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Real simple response to hunt quietly, IMO.
Matt's brother has been responsible (directly or indirectly) for about $200K in the corner crossing issue, where's Hunt Quietly been on the issue? I guess hiding under the bed with most the other groups.
That's why I don't really pay attention to the critics. They find a few things to pick the fly chit out of the pepper over while ignoring the big picture.
Don't have time for it.
elkduds
Well-known member
Most HTers are entertaining. Many are well informed. Some are well intended. A few are quietly admirable.
Forkyfinder
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2023
- Messages
- 2,701
Its telling to me that saint Matthew has all kinds of negative things to say about BHA and/or fresh tracks - but ive not heard much for critique of UPOM or MOGA or even FWPs management strategy.
SaskHunter
Well-known member
I listened to the Hunt Quietly BHA podcast yesterday. First of all, any org that cannot be challenged/questioned isn't worth my time.
I feel like the podcast raised some reasonable questions and valid points.
They also were very vocal about supporting BHA and I felt that at no point they were sh*tting that bad on the org, au contraire, they encouraged people to join to implement the change they want to see.
I feel like the podcast raised some reasonable questions and valid points.
They also were very vocal about supporting BHA and I felt that at no point they were sh*tting that bad on the org, au contraire, they encouraged people to join to implement the change they want to see.
Forkyfinder
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2023
- Messages
- 2,701
I disagree with almost everything Matt outlined in that podcast, but at the top of the list is saying every event that isn’t direct habitat work equals R3? Maybe Im struggling with the definition.
We hold some events that are completely directed at membership building and fundraising. We had a clay shoot a few weeks ago, had fun, added some members and raised some money. Matt would classify that as 100% R3.
I also personally hold the unpopular opinion that R3 is not a bad thing, but our chapter does zero events that I would classify as R3.
We hold some events that are completely directed at membership building and fundraising. We had a clay shoot a few weeks ago, had fun, added some members and raised some money. Matt would classify that as 100% R3.
I also personally hold the unpopular opinion that R3 is not a bad thing, but our chapter does zero events that I would classify as R3.
Elky Welky
Well-known member
That was part of my problem with the instagram post I saw where they said they did an "analysis" of the BCJ and determined that 50% of BHA's work is R3. Pint nights, fundraisers, and any educational event seem to fit in their own overbroad definition. Based on their analysis, does getting a beer and planning a hunt with a new hunting buddy qualify as R3? Introducing my friends to a tasty meal of wild game? Taking my nieces fishing?
To your point @Sasquatchewan, it's one thing for members and potential members to vet orgs they want to be part of. It's wholly another for one org to spend an inordinate amount of their time and resources smearing another, when they probably have something better to do. It's also a problem when people blame the org for their problems instead of confronting the real issues head on; loss of habitat, mismanagement by state actors, etc. The conservation org isn't the problem.
SAJ-99
Well-known member
Every group is different (other than they all need money to operate). That isn't really my point. We hear a lot about groups "working behind the scenes" on things. Some of that is because they have to. They may not be lobbying orgs and want to avoid that spot light. What I am saying is there is risk working "behind the scenes", particularly if you have some image or goal that you hope to achieve and need support for. The Wilks don't have to worry about that, but I don't know of any conservation orgs that fit the bill. @Elky Welky is correct in saying BHA and MWF are visible on front lines. so they have to take the heat from opponents. There is no benefit to attacking those two groups.
T
tjones
Guest
There are more than just MWF and BHA on the from lines, but I think you know that.
All doing good work.
rjthehunter
Well-known member
It's problematic when organizations like this turn political.
It's not a popularity contest. Everyone is generally fighting for the same thing.
Who cares what Matt says. People have given him way too much of a platform. Now he's an influencer.
I'd love to compare people's opinions from the previous threads about Matt to this recent commenting by him.
It's not a popularity contest. Everyone is generally fighting for the same thing.
Who cares what Matt says. People have given him way too much of a platform. Now he's an influencer.
I'd love to compare people's opinions from the previous threads about Matt to this recent commenting by him.
SAJ-99
Well-known member
Agree. Just saying that one of the problems hunters face is the inability to organize into a cohesive unit so they can speak with a louder, stronger voice.
I think I need to be educated. What are some positive things hunters have seen on the ground from BHA. And I don’t care for the argument of just think about how much worse it could be. I truly believe if we tried to adjust our mule deer season BHA would be the loudest voice crying they are taking opportunity away.
44hunter45
Well-known member
If you plan to corner cross in Wyoming, wave at Buzz when you drive by. BHA Wyoming ran the grassroots funding campaign for the legal defense warchest of the four hunters.
Washington BHA has been a major player in the fight to keep pro-hunting commissioners.
Google "fence-pull" or "wire-pull" and I bet the SEO will point you to a BHA work project most of the time. Like the one a couple of Saturdays from now in NCW. (North Central Washington for the non-locals.) Volunteer hours are often overlooked because the value of volunteer hours recorded counts as payment in kind for Federal matching dollars. I'm not going to say this is something only BHA does. Many local chapters of Elk, Sheep, Mule Deer, Trout, and Ducks do these as well. But this means a poor college student can volunteer labor to generate conservation revenue even if the can't pay the rent.
Looking back at the BLM solar project. On that Monday HT was abuzz with haters saying, "See - BHA hasn't said a thing about this. They are pro-development liars." After BHA put out their policy statement later in the week, the same haters were saying, "Goddamn Green Decoys have never supported any kind of energy project."
I've observed that if you take a position on anything on HT, someone will get triggered about it. Half the time its the same people.
You do you - but do something. Join the team that fits you best.
Gerald Martin
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2009
- Messages
- 8,676
Every time I have been at the Legislature to testify on a bill I care about that affects wildlife and hunting in MT, BHA has been there testifying as well. Last bill I testified on they took the opposite position as I did but I’m confident we’ll be aligned on far more issues than opposed in the future.
Elky Welky
Well-known member
Montana BHA 2024 Spring Newsletter
Backcountry Hunters & Anglers is the voice for our wild public lands, waters and wildlife.
www.backcountryhunters.org
2023 Legislative Session Recap - Montana BHA
Backcountry Hunters & Anglers is the voice for our wild public lands, waters and wildlife.
www.backcountryhunters.org
Montana BHA: 2023 Year In Review
Backcountry Hunters & Anglers is the voice for our wild public lands, waters and wildlife.
www.backcountryhunters.org
First link is to the spring newsletter so you can get a snapshot of boots on the ground efforts (upcoming fence pulls and trail projects), as well as engagement on current issues.
Second link is the legislative recap, including the bills Montana BHA worked to find sponsors for and get passed, specifically raising the fines for illegally gating public roads.
Third link is the 2023 year in review, including policy and stewardship projects.
Well said
