Stolen Opportunities....a very sad elk tale. We must do better!

[thomas89]

Yeah that is a tough one to stomach. The difference in doing everything right and sh*t happens vs. lobbing unethical shots/decisions from the start.

I'd 100% abide by it if it were a law, but until then it's a moral/ethical thing, and I still feel mine are within the reasonable range of a good sportsman.

Thinking of the few critters I've wounded and lost in my 20 years of hunting, absolutely all of them have been shots I was completely confident in at the time.

This could be a knee-jerk reaction to being lumped in with guys lobbing shots at crazy distances and making poor decisions.

Really good discussion though that has got me thinking.

 

[Dan O]

Re-reading the events as written by @Mtnhunter1 got me to call some folks who could get such law passed. I get that wounding can happen. I get that things don't always go as planned. It has happened to me a few times and it flat out sucks. I suspect most of us here have one of those terrible days when things went wrong. Yet, some folks have that problem on a monthly basis.

The amount of wounding loss whispered in secret or known via recoveries like @Mtnhunter1 has written, in both rifle and archery season, is insane. And, from my anecdotal interactions with hunters, it is increasing each year. As Montana population increases and resident hunter numbers continue to rise, the pressure on the resource cannot withstand this number of folks who keep shooting at animals until they finally recover one.

I know it won't stop some folks. But, I suspect having that rule would hopefully cause a bit more consideration before releasing the arrow or pulling the trigger. And, it would likely cause some to brush up on tracking skills and maybe more effort would be invested in finding the animal that was hit than is spent finding the next convenient target.

I'm gonna pursue this further with legislators. If folks gets pissed because such bill gets introduced in the 2023 legislative session, they can send me a PM or email me with their complaints. I'm over it.

Randy I hope you are successful with this.

 

[Khunter]

However, if you arrow or put a bullet into a critter, and don't find it, what is the likelihood that it will be coyote food? Or that it will be "fine"? I know that regs don't address it this way, but if I shoot something and can't recover it, I think I should call it a season.

At least you say “I”. That is your choice and other choices are equally acceptable,

 

[Dan O]

Vortex would start making these…

View attachment 250942

MVA already makes them in Belgrade, Mt.

 

[FREAK]

When I was archery hunting Wyoming this year we ran into an ex felon that was archery hunting with a crossbow. When we asked him how his hunt was going he told us “I don’t know, I’m an ex felon so I can’t rifle hunt, just bought this crossbow yesterday at Walmart, I hope it’s on.” He had 3 arrows in the quiver and seemed to have little idea what he was doing. At that moment I felt a little more uneasy being around the guy.

 

[FREAK]

Stuff happens in hunting, I’m not one to judge others but from personal experience, it eats me up when I do something dumb to injure an animal. Been hunting for a decent bit of time and have had some ups and downs. I’ve punched tags on wounded animals, hung it up for the season and also kept hunting. Those are the ones I remember more than the the ones that go right. I think fools will be fools and no law is going to stop them. Not a bad idea, but I’d equate it to outlawing ar15’s; the bad guys will still use em, the bad hunters will keep shooting…

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Re-reading the events as written by @Mtnhunter1 got me to call some folks who could get such law passed. I get that wounding can happen. I get that things don't always go as planned. It has happened to me a few times and it flat out sucks. I suspect most of us here have one of those terrible days when things went wrong. Yet, some folks have that problem on a monthly basis.

The amount of wounding loss whispered in secret or known via recoveries like @Mtnhunter1 has written, in both rifle and archery season, is insane. And, from my anecdotal interactions with hunters, it is increasing each year. As Montana population increases and resident hunter numbers continue to rise, the pressure on the resource cannot withstand this number of folks who keep shooting at animals until they finally recover one.

I know it won't stop some folks. But, I suspect having that rule would hopefully cause a bit more consideration before releasing the arrow or pulling the trigger. And, it would likely cause some to brush up on tracking skills and maybe more effort would be invested in finding the animal that was hit than is spent finding the next convenient target.

I'm gonna pursue this further with legislators. If folks gets pissed because such bill gets introduced in the 2023 legislative session, they can send me a PM or email with their complaints. I'm over it.

I’d expect an email from Uncle Ted, did you see his BS explanation of why the Alaska law was wrong and how it shouldn’t be his responsibility to read the rules.

That man is the epitome of narcissism.

Had a similar thought though about Montana adopting that law, hope many others would do the same.

If you can get it introduced I will be happy to make calls and write letters in support for whatever they are worth.

@Addicting I think that to some extent laws drives “ethics” and norms. If people know something is the law and are taught it in hunters Ed a lot of them will voluntarily comply regardless of enforcement. Gun storage laws are almost impossible to enforce for instance but in states with them a lot of people have their guns safely stored.

I’m sure lots of folks won’t comply, but even 50-60% makes a huge difference.

 

[Dinkshooter]

Sounds like typical rifle hunters to me, slobs.

 

[EYJONAS!]

Sounds like typical rifle hunters to me, slobs.

I think it falls on any one out in the field.

 

[RobertD]

@Addicting I think that to some extent laws drives “ethics” and norms. If people know something is the law and are taught it in hunters Ed a lot of them will voluntarily comply regardless of enforcement. Gun storage laws are almost impossible to enforce for instance but in states with them a lot of people have their guns safely stored.

I agree completely. I think you'd still have rule breakers after the shot. The real positive would be how many people became more careful and more cautious *before* the shot.

 

[mtmuley]

I agree completely. I think you'd still have rule breakers after the shot. The real positive would be how many people became more careful and more cautious *before* the shot.

Montana can't even manage mule deer. A law like this will change nothing. mtmuley

 

[338win]

If you want to reduce wound/loss just ban archery hunting, scopes over 3x, and add an IQ test to get a hunting license. Flame away

 

[longbow51]

Or, if you want to get serious, which would never fly, as it smacks of "shooting the King's deer"...

How to get your German Hunting License at USAG Bavaria

The test to earn a German Hunting License is given in three parts – written, hands-on, and target practice. The written exam is a multiple

www.bavariansportsmansclub.com

 

[NativeIndian]

I wish I could say that this surprised me but after this season nothing will surprise me. Found these two cows and half a bull left in the field to rot during first rifle in Colorado this year. The three were shot at the same time over 24 hours before we found them. Cows were bloated and starting to stink. Was able to track them down and get enough information to the warden to prosecute. Still haven’t heard on the final situation as the hunters were from out of state and left before the wardens could get up there. The bull is less than 50 yards from the cows.View attachment 250596View attachment 250597View attachment 250598

This is a shame. A lot of good meat went to waste.

 

[Dsnow9]

This is a shame. A lot of good meat went to waste.

absolutely! Even the bull had most of the fronts and the tendies left on it.

 

[bullbugle307]

I’ve always thought limiting folks to nothing more than a good ol 3x9 scope would cut out a lot of the wannabe long range shooters and reduce wounding loss. Take away all that gadgetry that makes people think they can shoot further than they can, and make people actually hunt a bit more fair chase.

And it’s easily enforceable.

 

[elkantlers]

Serious question. not trying to stir the pot.

How would a wounding law have made any difference in the case of these two elk?

 

[geetar]

I wonder how much would change if states adopted the Alaska black bear rule; You draw blood, you're done. Yeah, there would still be a lot of fools who draw blood and would not follow the rule, but the more I hear about this kind of stuff and the more I see people taking shots far beyond their talent level, the more I ponder approaching a Montana legislator to carry such a bill.

I’d be for it in any state.

 

[EYJONAS!]

Montana isn't the place to start a "wound it law" the whole week there's been multiple scenarios posted about flock shots and what happens when people see elk. The fwp can't even police those..... it all sounds like a good idea but good ideas don't mean shit if people aren't going to utilize and abide by it.

PEOPLE LOSE THEIR MINDS..... over trying to fill an elk tag. Let alone if it is a bull.

It sucks, but that's the world we live in

 

[dgc1963]

Ok here is my rant I live in Pa and think most Pa hunters are fat n lazy wont go more than 100 yrds from trail or field to hunt
I used to be dumb enough to think that some of the guys I know would like to elk hunt and for yrs I would ask them always said oh yea but never gave the effort to go
So where im going with the lazy part also going with shooting ,practice AND FOR GODs SAKE even knowing ballistics of their guns n ammo. I even had a guy tell me he couldnt use my lead sled to sight in his gun due to he needed to sight in for his flinch. Or a guy that went back into a tree to hunt while im still tracking his deer he hit with a bow.
If you cant shoot past 100 yrds DONT if you dont know what a bullet does when it leaves the end of the barrel LEARN . It seems we have sportsman and I think most on here are, or guys that just like to pull the trigger or send an arrow but are to lazy to scout,pratice,shoot,learn to track or just to have some respect for the animal they are after
And I wont even start on the guys that dont check their rifles before each season