Spring Bears With Hounds Proposed

[Eric Albus]

Less Elk and Deer too. Lets not forget who sponsored and passed House Bill 42 in 2003 that forced the MTFW&P's to set socially acceptable Elk Objectives across the state. We're are living with those Objectives not being complied with in Shoulder seasons, and all the other bills designed to kill more game. Even If we killed off all the Predators you hate, we still will not be able to raise any more Elk. We are sitting at 150,000 head statewide, and the legislature won't be happy until we're sitting at 90,000.

Last time I checked elk & deer were classified as ungulates.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Idaho's not just after wolves, they decided all predators need killing. So lion quota's are gone, some Bear areas have added additional bears to the take. You all are in agreement to kill as many predators as possible? The Houndsmen I know in the Root are not lion killers so much as they are into the chase. If those laws happened here I can assure you a cry across the land like you've never heard before.

BTW this is a Ram Power snare video for those who care. My "perception" is that the cable cutters wouldn't really help much other than getting your dog out to take home. I know people that lost dogs this past season to these devices, and they were only the coyote snare.

No I am not in agreement with Idaho trying to kill off all predators. I fought pretty damn hard against the lion quota change. I wrote comments as well as commissioners directly. I rallied others to do so, as well as giving specific talking points to hound clubs.

I also wrote a press release that I sent around the state and spurred interest in multiple newspapers, including Boise and Pocatello. The whole "Idaho declares war on lions" came from my press release. That was the title. My talking points and interview quotes are in the articles. Those articles stirred a lot of people up, including non-hunters who are not against hunting, but like the idea that Idaho stays wild with a few lions around. IDFG commissioners couldn't have cared less though...they had this in the works for a while.

Idaho wants eradication. I haven't killed a lion in ten years. I want a balance of a healthy population to run while allowing some opportunity for harvest for predator management and trophies. It doesn't really matter that many, or perhaps most houndsmen are in it for the chase. It takes one idiot in one area who wants to be a hero for his 10 best buddies to destroy a unit or area. There are plenty, and some are outfitters.

As for the new wolf stuff, I don't agree with killing 90% of any species because that is not game management....it is eradication step one.

Same with Idaho destroying the best bear units in the state because a few landowners (who refuse access to hunters) want fewer bears around their orchards.

 

[tjones]

Sooo, vote GOP and have fewer predators and more ungulates, what’s not to live here????

It very apparent why outfitters need set asides to keep their business afloat.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

They don't need set asides

 

[tjones]

Here's what one Idaho outfitter did last season WITH quotas. Just wait until there are none. How is this for management of a species with females that drop a litter every two-three years that stay with her between 18-24 months.

They do not need set asides....View attachment 181373

You wiffed the point. No worries.

Not wanting to completely derail the thread but Debbie Barrett’s (R) HB43 has killed and will continue to kill more elk than all Montana predators. Carry on.

 

[mtmuley]

At least that outfitter kills a few. mtmuley

 

[Eric Albus]

It very apparent why outfitters need set asides to keep their business afloat.

? I have missed your point, what does killing predators have to do with licensure?

 

[shoots-straight]

Last time I checked elk & deer were classified as ungulates.

Actually "Big Game" in Montana, but not sure of the significance of you post.

 

[RobG]

reading through this and remembering when I lived in Pocatello in the late 90's. IDF&G was pretty much controlled by the far right legislature. Their purpose was to kill predators, and fix the ag disasters with stocked trout and pheasants. Some biologist did manage to get some real work done but they were always hounded by the lawmakers and their goons. It doesn't sound like much has changed.

The saying back then was a depressed "Idaho used to be like Montana." If things continue on the path they are on, Montana is going to be just like Idaho.

Regarding the hound season, bear hunting is controversial enough. I don't think we need a new headache and rallying point to deal with...

 

[Sytes]

Since Hunt Talk Liberals have taken their gloves off, maybe Randy might acknowledge politics have a shit ton to do with Hunters and debates on conservation topics.

As shown in this thread on more than one occasion, notable Hunt Talk Liberals have blamed Republican voters for conservation faults...

The problem I have with Liberal voters, they can not see beyond their own nose as it stretches further than Pinocchio's.

If Liberals had Montanan and Idahoan people's interests they would have won their seats. They didn't. If Liberals were capable of something other than blaming others for their own woes, maybe they would have retained their seats. They didn't.

The deal that Idaho and Montana Liberals can't overcome is they too are part of the problem. Liberals are equally extreme as their counterparts.

Far too long Liberals have placated towards eco enviromentalists and let our predators dominate the landscape. Example: Instead of managing our wolf populations to a reasonable level, Liberals have supported an agenda such as that as wolf populations increased somewhere between 8-14x's the base required by USFWS.

Liberals have pandered the eco extremes with worthless quotas and extreme excess #'s of an additional apex predator.

Liberals failure to keep Montanan and Idahoans in mind led the Liberals to lose their seats and positions.

Now we face the other side of the pendulum. Or the other side of our myopic, bi polar partisan arena.

So... while Hunt Talk Democrats try to find blame on voters who placed into office Republicans who now wish to flip a 180... the truth is, Liberals failed the voters.

Why? Because BOTH Democrats and Republicans have created such extremes, we've tired of one enough to hope the other side can do better.

However, liberals now blame conservatives just as conservatives blamed liberals.

Extreme partisanship from both sides have led our State's citizens to this point.

As an example of partisan politics,, hopefully we can trim the Idaho cockadoodling for 150 wolves down a few notches. No thanks to the former liberals letting the #'s get out of hand.

Back to the debate over houndsmen hunt of black bears... the quality discussion pre, Liberal banter how hunters in MT and ID created this problem... juvenile thinking. They're both the problem.

 

[BuzzH]

What party did that guy from Montana belong to that co-sponsored that wolf bill that got them delisted again?

I always forget...

What party did that guy belong to that co-sponsored that bill to reaffirm the rights of the States to manage game within their borders?

I always forget...

What party did that gal from Montana belong to that decided to declare war on elk (HB43) belong to again?

Can someone remind me?

 

[Sytes]

As expected Buzz.

Your reading comprehension sucks as you've displayed in the past.

 

[Trap]

I have followed Washington hunting for a long time. It’s close and my son could start deer hunting there for in state prices as a NR at 8 when Idaho big game age was 12. I have never hunted there but took my son for a few years he got some deer and it was fun. For every one whining about TOO much predator management look at a site called hunting Washington. Look up our mule deer herds thread. The LIBERAL political regime has protected predators to the extreme and they are at the point of a predator pit. I don’t agree with Idaho’s approach to predators especially lions but it’s a Cadillac problem. We still have plenty of lions bears and at this point too many wolves where I hunt. Look at Washington and see if you like the liberal agenda. No hounds for bear or lion. They had both it’s been taken away. No baiting for bears they had it it was taken away. They probably have more wolves than Idaho and Montana but they are throwing people in jail if they shoot one. They are considering them stil on endangered species list which is absurd. There fish and wildlife is controlled by a liberal legislature. We are arguing over first class problems here. Look around at other liberal western states Washington Oregon and ugh I guess California even though it’s like it’s own planet. You hopefully will realize a limited bound season for bears is not that big of a deal. The grass is much greener on Montana and Idaho’s side of the fence. Every pro predator anti big game hunting state mentioned got rid of hound hunting for lions first. I’m sure Montana had some decent D politicians running but we have 3 case studies proving they are not the party you want if you hunt,fish or like guns. Count your blessings and look around if you want to see real game mismanagement. I don’t like the Idaho approach to all predators right now but it’s one thousand percent better than protecting them at the expense of all ungulates. Anybody ever wonder why there is so many Washington plates in Idaho every year? Zero predator management and it always begins by getting rid of hounds that’s the tip of the agenda. You’re lucky I think to live in a state that actually added it in my opinion.

 

[BuzzH]

As expected Buzz.

Your reading comprehension sucks as you've displayed in the past.

My comprehension is fine.

If we want to go down the road of "liberals" not listening to the voters in Montana...then be consistent. Were the "conservatives" paying attention to their constituents, while losing the Senate, House, and Presidency to the "liberals"?

Here's a hint, if you're trying to appear "middle of the road"...maybe start with something other than using "liberals" 17 times in one post. Pull up your pants, you're showing the world your bias.

Don't get pissed off that the "conservatives" are raking property rights, hunting, access and a lot of the other things that Montanan's care about over the coals...that's who the majority wanted to represent them. Take your beating like a man...and own your vote...and the legislation your party has pushed this session. As per your typical political rants, its not about what your guys did right, its what the other guys did wrong...and you wonder why things are the way they are. You're played like a fiddle...nice work!

 

[rogerthat]

I do know that there are hardly any times when more hunting opportunities are offered rather than taken away.

I’m going to say this one more time, that statement is simply not true in Montana. I’m 40 years old. Lived in MT my entire life. I can’t think of one hunting opportunity that went away in the 40 years. They have only expanded in this state. It’s time for MT sportsman to say enough is enough. I oppose anymore opportunity expansion in MT. And yes I get it, this isn’t the trend in other states west wide. I hunt outside MT as well but for this state enough is enough

 

[BuzzH]

I’m going to say this one more time, that statement is simply not true in Montana. I’m 40 years old. Lived in MT my entire life. I can’t think of one hunting opportunity that went away in the 40 years. They have only expanded in this state. It’s time for MT sportsman to say enough is enough. I oppose anymore opportunity expansion in MT. And yes I get it, this isn’t the trend in other states west wide. I hunt outside MT as well but for this state enough is enough

Absolutely.

Here are a few:

1. Youth only deer seasons, added days.
2. Upland bird hunting days have expanded more than a month.
3. Saturday opener from traditional Sunday.
4. Youth antlerless elk and deer in nearly every unit in the state.
5. Expanded wolf permits
6. Elk B tags
7. Does anyone even know how many deer B-tags are available anymore?
8. What is it now, up to 12 turkey's a year if you move around the state?
9. Archery hunting expansions in river bottoms.
10. Archery elk hunting expansions in River bottoms (Missoula area)
11. Shoulder seasons for elk.
12. OTC deer b tags.

And now the new ones, hound bear hunting, and musket seasons.

Those are just the ones I can think of real quick...

 

[Hawk Tuah]

I’m going to say this one more time, that statement is simply not true in Montana. I’m 40 years old. Lived in MT my entire life. I can’t think of one hunting opportunity that went away in the 40 years. They have only expanded in this state. It’s time for MT sportsman to say enough is enough. I oppose anymore opportunity expansion in MT. And yes I get it, this isn’t the trend in other states west wide. I hunt outside MT as well but for this state enough is enough

Fair enough. I was talking opportunities in the US, which they are declining. You know more about Montana than me.

I respect that you don't make excuses and just say you don't want others to have something so you can have more of what you have....better than hiding behind the grizzly bull crap.

Montana is purple, and hopefully moves more back to red. If you end up blue and Bozeman starts making your decisions on hunting for you, then you will get a taste of losing opportunities.

 

[rogerthat]

I do know that there are hardly any times when more hunting opportunities are offered rather than taken away.

I’m going to say this one more time, that statement is simply not true in Montana. I’m 40 years old. Lived in MT my entire life. I can’t think of one hunting opportunity that went away in the 40 years. They have only expanded in this state. It’s time for MT sportsman to say enough is enough. I oppose anymore opportunity expansion in MT. And yes I get it, this isn’t the trend in other states west wide. I hunt outside MT as well but for this state enough is e

Absolutely.

Here are a few:

1. Youth only deer seasons, added days.
2. Upland bird hunting days have expanded more than a month.
3. Saturday opener from traditional Sunday.
4. Youth antlerless elk and deer in nearly every unit in the state.
5. Expanded wolf permits
6. Elk B tags
7. Does anyone even know how many deer B-tags are available anymore?
8. What is it now, up to 12 turkey's a year if you move around the state?
9. Archery hunting expansions in river bottoms.
10. Archery elk hunting expansions in River bottoms (Missoula area)
11. Shoulder seasons for elk.
12. OTC deer b tags.

And now the new ones, hound bear hunting, and musket seasons.

Those are just the ones I can think of real quick...

Yes! and now a legislature coming up with more “new ideas” to expand opportunity. Beyond aweful.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

I cannot have a conversation about the benefit of increasing hunting opportunities with two guys who literally look at adding days to a youth deer hunt as "beyond awful."

 

[BuzzH]

I cannot have a conversation about the benefit of increasing hunting opportunities with two guys who literally look at adding days to a youth deer hunt as "beyond awful."

Right, because 6 weeks of archery hunting, followed by 5 weeks of rifle hunting (through the entire deer rut)...just isn't enough time to get youth hunters out in the field. You know, with a whole pocket full of deer b tags, elk b tags, another few months of shoulder seasons...oh, and youth being allowed to hunt antlerless elk and deer on their A-tags.

Yeah, Montana absolutely needs to look out for youth by giving them another weekend...

What I cannot have a conversation about is any parent that's such a sack of shit, that they need 2 more days to take their kids out to pound on deer that already have 11 weeks of pressure put on them.

Sounds to me like dear old Dad doesn't want junior getting in the way of their 11 week seasons.