Spring Bears With Hounds Proposed

[BuzzH]

Strong management doesn’t include shooting everything that you tree or your spot & stalk so you are the one that It’s fixating on a number that’s 99% who gives a shit I’m telling you the guys a hunt with harvest a very little number of animals that we tree. Pick a number, this will be a tool under the Montana FWP commission and then The logistics of the hunt will be set. Have a good day.

I tell who doesn't give a shit about anything but themselves are the houndsmen. They whined and cried about hunters shooting a few lions during the general rifle season, only 10% of the quota can go to guys hunting general. How's that being in favor of "sharing" the resource equally?

Sorry, but I'm not sorry you wont find me wanting to "share" the resource (bears) with any group that is comfortable keeping 90% of the opportunity for themselves.

Have you engaged the commission to increase general lion harvest to more than 10% lately?

Yeah, just what I thought...

 

[BuzzH]

I think you're missing something here. I know I'm not the only one that really considers it "management" to tree 100 bears and only shoot one of them. I think hound hunting is a great tool. I'm not comfortable with guys running 99 bears before they shoot one.

Lion hunters do the same thing...know a guy in Missoula that was bragging about treeing well over 100 and still had not shot one.

 

[mtmuley]

Strong management doesn’t include shooting everything that you tree or your spot & stalk so you are the one that It’s fixating on a number that’s 99% who gives a shit

99 out of 100 spot and stalk hunters won't let a bear walk. Oops, that might be strong management. mtmuley

 

[HighWildFree]

I tell who doesn't give a shit about anything but themselves are the houndsmen.

Word.

All this is to me is carving out an inordinate opportunity and resources for a specialized recreationalist group at the expense of prolonging grizzly bear listing/recovery.

Montana is getting smaller and more crowded everyday and everyone is trying to get their slice before it's all gone and we'll all end up with a slice not worth having.

Still against it and will continue to voice that to the legislature

 

[Bowhunter65]

I think you're missing something here. I know I'm not the only one that really considers it "management" to tree 100 bears and only shoot one of them. I think hound hunting is a great tool. I'm not comfortable with guys running 99 bears before they shoot one.

It is a number that is all it is you know when I know the lot more than 99 bears get harvested it’s the point of the conversation the houndsmen can be real selective. Black bears will get harvested if this does pass that’s inevitable. But to try to argue with some of the guys above is about impossible and I’m just not gonna do it.

 

[brymoore]

99 out of 100 spot and stalk hunters won't let a bear walk. Oops, that might be strong management. mtmuley

I don’t know about that. We let known (best guess) sows walk all the time. I’m talking solo sows. Obviously we let sow with Cubs walk.

I still think this is a lot about nothing. I never had a conflict with hound hunters.

The baiters can be a little difficult sometimes. They get defensive of the land around bait sites.

 

[TheJason]

It is a number that is all it is you know when I know the lot more than 99 bears get harvested it’s the point of the conversation the houndsmen can be real selective. Black bears will get harvested if this does pass that’s inevitable. But to try to argue with some of the guys above is about impossible and I’m just not gonna do it.

Maybe I"m not doing a good job of communicating, because I don't feel like you're picking up what I'm putting down.

TLDR - if this was my legislative baby I sure as hell wouldn't be trying to sell it by claiming a conservation win, high ground, whatever based on the fact you only kill 1% of the bears you chase and tree/bay up.

YMMV

 

[Deleted member 16014]

Houndsmen desperately need a public relations strategy. @IdahoNick made some great points, wasn’t pushy about it, and made a lot of us think. @Bowhunter65 on the other hand made me pretty sure I don’t want anyone like that as a partner in conserving and hunting bears.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

I’m sure you’re a great guy, good hunter, care for your dogs, etc. but the tone of the argument is not compelling at all.

 

[TheJason]

I’m sure you’re a great guy, good hunter, care for your dogs, etc. but the tone of the argument is not compelling at all.

That and the ability to dialogue with dissenting opinions seems a little lacking. That's simply an observation and nothing more.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

As was alluded to earlier in the thread, as this bill hits the Billings Gazette or wherever, I am concerned about how bear hunting in general is defended by whoever the mouthpiece may be.

 

[BuzzH]

Houndsmen desperately need a public relations strategy. @IdahoNick made some great points, wasn’t pushy about it, and made a lot of us think. @Bowhunter65 on the other hand made me pretty sure I don’t want anyone like that as a partner in conserving and hunting bears.

I totally agree...IdahoNick is the type of hound hunter that needs to represent the sport. Bowhunter65 would be better off taking out a pen and paper and taking some notes.

 

[Bowhunter65]

I’m sure you’re a great guy, good hunter, care for your dogs, etc. but the tone of the argument is not compelling at all.

Not looking looking argue with anyone, look at the bill make up your own minds. Been here before, I have done a good with what I done with this bill, did my homework getting the bill to Helena. Trust me worked some endless hours on it, you guys will make up your own minds and that is your choice. Some of us will agree to disagree on all kinds of subjects. So have a good day. Thank you for the conversations, trust me I don’t need to try to get your approval to say yes or no on this bill, most already have their minds made up. Everyone has a opinion which is fine with me.

 

[EYJONAS!]

When @Bowhunter65 first chimed in on the topic I asked him his thoughts and he sent me a lengthy pm. It was actually about the total opposite tone of argument the thread is showing. Him explaining his side as well as history on this topic. I was hoping he'd share some more of it with you all but that clearly hasn't happened yet.

I guess about any way a guy looks at it we all have a selfish take on this. The spot and stalk his don't want to change anything and the houndsman want it their way....

Tough subject to say the least

 

[Bowhunter65]

I totally agree...IdahoNick is the type of hound hunter that needs to represent the sport. Bowhunter65 would be better off taking out a pen and paper and taking some notes.

Maybe you should take some etiquette classes on how to try to be a nice person because you’ve got an opinion but a lot of subjects and most of them are very nice. If you’re so concerned about Montana maybe you ought to move back. Put that in your notes.

 

[Bowhunter65]

When @Bowhunter65 first chimed in on the topic I asked him his thoughts and he sent me a lengthy pm. It was actually about the total opposite tone of argument the thread is showing. Him explaining his side as well as history on this topic. I was hoping he'd share some more of it with you all but that clearly hasn't happened yet.

I guess about any way a guy looks at it we all have a selfish take on this. The spot and stalk his don't want to change anything and the houndsman want it their way....

Tough subject to say the least

Here what I shared with you,
My name is Terry L. Zink, I am a 55 year old 3rd generation houndsman & my 16 year old son Dylan Zink is our 4th generation in the Zink family. I live in Marion, Montana and I was raised in Lewistown. I run an archery business here the Flathead Valley. In all my years here in Montana I have mentored a lot of the younger generations of houndsmen here the states swell as hunters in general . I am a life long member of the Montana State Houndsmens Association and have great pride in doing so. I would like to see see HB 468 introduced by House Member Paul Fielder given some consideration to be used under the FWP’s commission as a tool for management purposes helping with the our ever growing Black Bear population.



The information that has been compiled for consideration for the bill has been used in Idaho for generations. The Black Bear densities we have here in the state are very comparable with Idaho. We are heavy Predator state with the populations of Black Bears, Mountain Lions, Grizzly Bears and Wolves, plus coyotes. Last spring there was a Predator summit held in Bozeman to discuss what tools could be used in our state to help offset our Ungulate populations from being damaged anymore than they already are. I live in the most densely populated predator part of state in Region 1 and yes during the testimony of the snaring bill it really touched a spot in my heart of how predators are being managed. We need tools at the FWP’s Disposal like snares and the use of hounds and houndsmen to help strengthen our ungulate populations. We are all elk and deer hunters, I am a life long bowhunter. The Black Bear in the spring are the biggest threat to elk & moose calves and deer fawns. The bears noses are attracted to the afterbirth and brings the Bears into the birthing grounds.





HB 468 will create a spring chase and harvest season for bears with hounds and create a summer training season, which is an important tool for us to train hounds to be used during bear hunting and mountain lion hunting. It is an outstanding bill being introduced to help with our FWP’s efforts in the ever demanding predator problems, please use us as houndsmen. In the Flathead Valley over the years my services to the FWP have been used more than most, I take great pride in this and being able to help when ever I’ve been called upon to deal with Mountain Lion problems.



To address the grizzly from being chased we can use the island approach where the grizzlies are so highly populated would be a no hunting zone or no chasing in that Hunting District. Idaho uses the same method





Bear hunting with hounds is enjoyed in many other states across our Union and has been apart of hunting tradition since our country’s founding. If this bill is passed it will give our state another method of hunting + our coveted spot-and-stalk method of hunting black bears. Instead, it is an alternative method that allows hunters to identify the gender of the bear treed more accurately, determine if cubs are present, and gauge the age, weight, and size of the bear to determine the prospect of harvesting. We as houndsmen have been sort of in charge of making sure mountain lion tag holders know what they are looking at in the tree after the chase.



This bill will expand the opportunities of Montana hunters and houndsmen to aid in the harvest of bears with dogs, just like many use dogs to assist in the harvest of lions, raccoons, coyotes, and other wildlife.





In our current day, our hunting rights and freedoms are perpetually under assault by the anti-hunting coalition - for example, the California Senate Bill 252, whose purpose was to outlaw black bear hunting completely. Through combined efforts from outdoorsmen, sportsmen, hunting groups, and many other organizations, Bill 252 was rescinded before moving past committee. We have to ask ourselves - How long before those types of bills are introduced in Montana?



Hunting rights and opportunities have been shrinking in every state for the last 50 years. This bill is an opportunity for us to take the offensive in protecting what is ours and guarding the gate of the tradition of hunting that has been apart of humankind’s culture and survival. Let’s not only continue to defend the hunting rights we have remaining but seek to expand and create new opportunities for future generations in our great state to enjoy the great outdoors with family, friends, and man’s best friend. Hunting with hounds is a low-hanging fruit for the anti-hunting community to attack. Let’s demonstrate that the house of hunters, no matter your preference for style, approach, or method of harvest, is not divided, and this house will stand and expand the hunting rights of the people who make Montana the great state that it is.



Please support this HB 468 and support hunting rights in Montana and the United States of America.



Thank you for your time and your service to the state of Montana, our state is a Treasure and Treasured



Sincerely Terry L Zink

 

[EYJONAS!]

Thank you.... I would've shared it but wasn't my words.

 

[mtmuley]

I would like to see see HB 468 introduced by House Member Paul Fielder given some consideration to be used under the FWP’s commission as a tool for management purposes helping with the our ever growing Black Bear population.

"Treed and freed" management. Seems like what is requested is a season to chase bears around. mtmuley

 

[BuzzH]

Maybe you should take some etiquette classes on how to try to be a nice person because you’ve got an opinion but a lot of subjects and most of them are very nice. If you’re so concerned about Montana maybe you ought to move back. Put that in your notes.

Plenty of family/friends still live there...they'll be contacting the right folks to kill this idea.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Word.

All this is to me is carving out an inordinate opportunity and resources for a specialized recreationalist group at the expense of prolonging grizzly bear listing/recovery.

Montana is getting smaller and more crowded everyday and everyone is trying to get their slice before it's all gone and we'll all end up with a slice not worth having.

Still against it and will continue to voice that to the legislature

Be my voice too. Thanks.