Somewhat picky rifle, free float/bedding opinion

[shaffe48]

Hi:
So I really like my .300. It has a good amount of heft so I shoot it well as long as I only shoot it a few rounds at a time. But it tends to be a little picky. For instance, I used to have some handloads with a certain premium bullet that shot under an inch at 100 yards with max loads. Then I bought some factory loads with the exact same bullet. I kept getting lousy 2-3 moa groups with 4-6 moa flyers every 4-5 shots.

I thought it was just me. So I cleaned the crap out of the gun. Fired 3 shots at 200 yards. 2 of the shots were inside 5 inches and the other went a foot high. So I shot a three shot group with a non premium load from the same manufacturer. 2.25 inches from 200 yards off a pack. So I shoot another 3 shot group with my premium load and got 6 inches with no flyers again from 200 yards. Then I shot the cheapies...another 2.25 inch group.

So when I go bear hunting next month I'm just using the cheapies. I have no qualms using non premium with a 180 gr 30 Cal bullet on a black bear even on an expensive hunt. But I'd like to get less ammo sensitivity with my fav rifle. Should I try to glass bed and free float myself or should I hire a pro? Anyone try it?

 

[VikingsGuy]

I doubt bedding and floating makes a gun more amenable to various bullet types/velocities/COL. But certainly should improve overall accuracy. If you enjoy tinkering with your guns, it is fairly easy to do it your self (there was an informative HT thread just a few weeks ago), but if not, probably better to send off.

 

[shaffe48]

Ok. I must like tinkering cause I spent the last three evenings stinking up my house with copper solvent. I still think there's something about some rifles that they shoot just about anything well. I own two rifles a 22 lr and a 243 with a brand that starts with sav and ends with age. They seem to shoot anything pretty accurately enough. I would never expect big groups out of these. I just wonder what it is.

 

[p_ham]

What rifle? What stock? How fast are you shooting your groups? That 300 will heat up the barrel quickly.

Shooting quickly with a thin or sporter weight barrel will heat it up and change the harmonics, causing erratic groups.

Random flyers are usually caused by barrel contact, this can be alleviated by free floating, you can also gain more consistency (accuracy) by bedding the action.

Different loads behave differently because they cause the barrel to move differently. This gets fairly complex and you can easily go "down the rabbit hole" learning the intricacy of bullet length/weight vs optimum velocity and rpms.

I guess I'm done rambling now.

 

[cowboy]

Never seen a rifle that went shooting under an inch to 5" flyers without something having changed. Something has changed and I doubt it's the bedding. Have you checked all your action screws, scope mount screws etc. How much confidence do you have in your scope?

 

[Louisdove]

I ran into a similar issue in the past with my 300mag. It goes to what someone above me said, I was allowing the barrel to get too hot. The extra heat changes how the barrel moves and can change the pressure in the chamber/barrel as well. Shoot on a hot day with your ammo in the sun and it will affect it even more. Keep your gun and rounds nice and cool and see how it does.

In my search for a fix I free floated my barrel. It was pretty easy and kinda fun. Remember you can always take more material off, but once it is off you’re not putting it back.

 

[VikingsGuy]

If a rifle consistently shoots 1 MOA with factory ammo A and 3 MOA with factory ammo B, then the likely cause is found in the bullet shapes, in-barrel velocity, powder type, jump to lands. You can either find (and then stay with) a factory ammo that works and hope they don't change it over time, or you can try hand loading and really dial in the details for your rifle and you may be able to get a few more bullet types to shoot well for you. Action bedding, etc may still be nice, but really won't address a concern with not being able to shoot a wide variety of factory loads.

If a rifle is simply inconsistent regardless of ammo choice, then p_ham started a good list of failure modes. Root cause for inconsistent rifle can be bad scope, loose action screws, loose scope screws, fowled barrel, barrel contact with forend (either at rest or during shot), poor action/stock fit, shooter error, barrel heating, barrel contact with anything else (shooting rest etc), damaged muzzle crown, etc. If this is the issue it is a step by step checking, tweaking and test of the most obvious root causes.

One question is, do you have enough shots on paper to be sure which of the two scenarios you are dealing with? If you are only shooting 3-5 shots per outing you have to be very careful that overall variance isn't what you are seeing, more so than ammo specific variance or you could waste a lot of time chasing ammo when you have more elementary gun problems (and vice versa).

 

[cahunter805]

The problem is the OP stated he had Handloads that shot 1 MOA with a certain bullet. He then bought factory loaded ammo with the same bullet. They are not the same load and thus won't group the same.
The rifle seems capable of MOA you just need to find the right combo. Why not use the handloads?
What brand of rifle? Wood stock? Plastic? Bedding and free floating will help.

 

[6mm Remington]

Not surprised your factory loads were no-where close to the ones you loaded yourself. I've seen that quite a bit. Different powder, primers, brass, all have an effect.

I would pillar and glass bed the action and float the barrel. Wondering if you checked the scope mounts and bases to make sure they were tight as well as the action screws? That could really mess with things.

 

[shaffe48]

It's definitely differences in the ammo not issues with the rifle (screws/scope) or issues with the shooting technique (barrel heating). I say this because I literally shot 1 three shot group with A, 1 with B, 1 with A, and finally 1 with B. B is what shot best. The only way I could have been more scientific is if someone loaded for me so I couldn't know what I'm shooting.

I bought a premium bullet from another brand tonight. I got a 5 inch group, then a six inch group off the bench from 200 yards. Then I switched back to the cheapies and got a 2 inch group. I have one more cartridge I want to try and then I'm just using the cheapies!

Based on this input I probably won't bother bed and free floating as this won't fix the issue I'm trying to fix. Maybe I'll go back to handloading. Ugh! I'd really like more options but that might not happen.

 

[cahunter805]

What premium bullet are you trying? What company loaded it? Also what's the cheapie?
Why don't you want to handload?

 

[shaffe48]

Hi thanks for your help. I didn't post exactly what ammo i was using because I don't feel it's relevant. The ammo that works in my rifle isn't what works in some one else's

So I should start reloading again. But I leave for my next hunting trip in less than a month so I'm using factory loads for this.

 

[cahunter805]

Gotcha. Seems like the cheapie ammo is shooting well. I think I would sight in with that and then go hunt. Bears aren't overly tough to kill.
IMO I would reload if your after the most accuracy and also bed the rifle and free float the barrel. Another factor is the trigger. Is it factory? Crisp? Clean break? No over travel?

 

[shaffe48]

Hi, the trigger is fine. So I'm officially not going to bed and free float the rifle. After tonight, I have two loads that shoot well and I might just ruin the rifle. What brought this whole thing up is I finally ran out of my handloads and bought some factory loads that use one of the bullets I hand loaded for. I do most of my practice from field positions so I just assumed my poor shooting and flyers were me. But I was shooting great with my .243 so I looked into it. Important note: I have nothing against any of these loads and manufacturers. It just happens that my rifle has picky and odd tastes! Don't not buy any of these ammos because of what I'm saying!

The two factory loads that work, oddly enough, are Hornady Interlock 180 gr and Federal Trophy Bonded tip 180 gr. These shot all 2-3 inch groups at 200 yards, and since I was shooting a lot of groups off a backpack at least an inch of this is me! So I would consider both these loads 1 moa as the groups I feel I shot better hit this standard. The ones that should have worked at least as well are Hornady SST and Nosler Accubond (loaded by Winchester) but they shot the worst. The SST is what I was shooting originally and I had planned to use Interbond for my hunt. Since the SST shot flyers, I could never use these. If I used the Accubond (which were 3 moa), I would have to limit my shots to 200 yards so in a pinch this would work. I also tried Nosler Partition which shot better than the SST/Accubond but not as good as the other two and the three groups I shot seemed to have different points of impact. Perhaps I can look further into the Partitions later. But I will be using the Bonded Tip for bear next month and the Interlocks for deer if I deer hunt with a rifle this fall.

 

[Don Fischer]

Shoot's good enough with your handloads but not with factory? If it's alright with your handloads, why are you thinking factory in the first place?

 

[shaffe48]

I edited this to tone it down. I have no interest in reloading currently. I won't have any problem on my trip... especially if the bear turns broadside at 200 yards and I have the chance to get on my pack. I could heart shoot him if I wanted.