So it happens.....

[TheJason]

That article reads like a scene out of the movie Idiocracy.

So does some of the commentary in this thread

 

[LuketheDog]

There is a line of Colorado plates coming up here every weekend to ruin our great state. Campers, boats, 4 wheelers, snowmobiles, prius, etc... so it's year round.

The hunting, camping, fishing, etc much suck down there if they have to constantly drive up here to enjoy the outdoors.

I'm sure some are good people but for the most part the greenies have ruined places like Glendo, Gowdy, Snowies, etc. as every where you go those green plates show up.

Well they ruined our state first, you can have them all and I'll go back to uncrowded fishing!

 

[LuketheDog]

“The guy came around the vehicle and said, ‘Oh, you want some of this too?’ and started beating the shit out of him,” the friend said. “(The son) had a handgun on his hip, and the other guy kept trying to go for it. He was trying to protect himself while keeping that guy from getting his gun.”

Speculation aside as to the mental state of the victims in the moment (I feel like Ontario has covered all the woulda-coulda-shoulda's)...I'd like to think my gun would've been out after seeing the first punches thrown at my buddy on the other side of the truck, why carry it at all if you're not prepared to use it?

 

[Stocker]

“The guy came around the vehicle and said, ‘Oh, you want some of this too?’ and started beating the shit out of him,” the friend said. “(The son) had a handgun on his hip, and the other guy kept trying to go for it. He was trying to protect himself while keeping that guy from getting his gun.”

Speculation aside as to the mental state of the victims in the moment (I feel like Ontario has covered all the woulda-coulda-shoulda's)...I'd like to think my gun would've been out after seeing the first punches thrown at my buddy on the other side of the truck, why carry it at all if you're not prepared to use it?

 

[Bigjay73]

Was trying to decide where to fish this weekend, guess I'll head north of the border and park my green license plate along the north platte

 

[DouglasR]

brings a whole new meaning to the saying “We got our ass’s kicked”
When describing how your hunt went.

 

[DouglasR]

Hunting is a seriously divided community.

 

[Bigjay73]

“The guy came around the vehicle and said, ‘Oh, you want some of this too?’ and started beating the shit out of him,” the friend said. “(The son) had a handgun on his hip, and the other guy kept trying to go for it. He was trying to protect himself while keeping that guy from getting his gun.”

Speculation aside as to the mental state of the victims in the moment (I feel like Ontario has covered all the woulda-coulda-shoulda's)...I'd like to think my gun would've been out after seeing the first punches thrown at my buddy on the other side of the truck, why carry it at all if you're not prepared to use it?

Maybe he's just never been in a stressful situation and froze. I'd be willing to bet that a lot of people who have never had reactionary training would have a difficult time defending themselves with a firearm. So much goes through your mind, the fact that in this day and age if you shoot someone who is unarmed , you're probably going to jail, may have crossed his mind. Who knows, just glad they're alive, hope they catch the evil bastards.

 

[TOGIE]

Maybe he's just never been in a stressful situation and froze. I'd be willing to bet that a lot of people who have never had reactionary training would have a difficult time defending themselves with a firearm. So much goes through your mind, the fact that in this day and age if you shoot someone who is unarmed , you're probably going to jail, may have crossed his mind. Who knows, just glad they're alive, hope they catch the evil bastards.

i tend to think unless you're a petite woman you're probably going to jail for using a firearm to defend against fists.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Wouldn't be surprised if the presence of a pistol on the guy's hip contributed to them getting beaten as bad as they did. That's just a thought, not saying he shouldn't have been carrying or victim blaming.

My experience with news stories that I have first hand knowledge of is that there is usually some variance from what actually happened. Regardless, it's a real shame that a cow hunt resulted in such a nasty ending.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

i tend to think unless you're a petite woman you're probably going to jail for using a firearm to defend against fists.

I tend to agree but stomping someone curled up on the ground might be a different story.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Maybe he's just never been in a stressful situation and froze. I'd be willing to bet that a lot of people who have never had reactionary training would have a difficult time defending themselves with a firearm. So much goes through your mind, the fact that in this day and age if you shoot someone who is unarmed , you're probably going to jail, may have crossed his mind. Who knows, just glad they're alive, hope they catch the evil bastards.

i tend to think unless you're a petite woman you're probably going to jail for using a firearm to defend against fists.

Wyoming Statutes Title 6. Crimes and Offenses § 6-2-602. Use of force in self defense;  no duty to retreat​

The use of defensive force whether actual or threatened, is reasonable when it is the defensive force that a reasonable person in like circumstances would judge necessary to prevent an injury or loss, and no more, including deadly force if necessary to prevent imminent death or serious bodily injury to the person employing the deadly force or to another person.  As used in this subsection, “necessary to prevent” includes a necessity that arises from an honest belief that the danger exists whether the danger is real or apparent.


....
....

(e) A person who is attacked in any place where the person is lawfully present shall not have a duty to retreat before using reasonable defensive force pursuant to subsection (a) of this section provided that he is not the initial aggressor and is not engaged in illegal activity.

 

[TOGIE]

Wyoming Statutes Title 6. Crimes and Offenses § 6-2-602. Use of force in self defense;  no duty to retreat​

The use of defensive force whether actual or threatened, is reasonable when it is the defensive force that a reasonable person in like circumstances would judge necessary to prevent an injury or loss, and no more, including deadly force if necessary to prevent imminent death or serious bodily injury to the person employing the deadly force or to another person.  As used in this subsection, “necessary to prevent” includes a necessity that arises from an honest belief that the danger exists whether the danger is real or apparent.


....
....

(e) A person who is attacked in any place where the person is lawfully present shall not have a duty to retreat before using reasonable defensive force pursuant to subsection (a) of this section provided that he is not the initial aggressor and is not engaged in illegal activity.

which is where the rub is, the jury determines exactly whether the perceived threat of "serious bodily injury or imminent death" justified it.

more to my real point, i think what constitutes serious bodily injury or imminent death is more likely than not to be greatly overestimated in the vast majority of situations, especially when the attacker is basically a male attacking a similar sized male. i think the results of the scuffle relevant to this thread prove pulling the gun would've likely been a bad idea. though, we don't know exactly what and how it went down.

 

[TheJason]

: bodily injury which involves substantial risk of death, protracted and obvious disfigurement, or protracted loss or impairment of the function of a bodily member or organ or mental faculty

IMO he would have met the criteria.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

which is where the rub is, the jury determines exactly whether the perceived threat of "serious bodily injury or imminent death" justified it.

more to my real point, i think what constitutes serious bodily injury or imminent death is more likely than not to be greatly overestimated in the vast majority of situations, especially when the attacker is basically a male attacking a similar sized male. i think the results of the scuffle relevant to this thread prove pulling the gun would've likely been a bad idea. though, we don't know exactly what and how it went down.

I'm not a lawyer... but it's interesting that they included this in the statute

(f) A person who uses reasonable defensive force as defined by subsection (a) of this section shall not be criminally prosecuted for that use of reasonable defensive force.

2021 Wyoming Statutes :: Title 6 - Crimes and Offenses :: Chapter 2 - Offenses Against the Person :: Article 6 - Justification :: Section 6-2-602 - Use of Force in Self Defense; No Duty to Retreat.

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

 

[Bigjay73]

IMO he would have met the criteria.

Absolutely

 

[LuketheDog]

which is where the rub is, the jury determines exactly whether the perceived threat of "serious bodily injury or imminent death" justified it.

more to my real point, i think what constitutes serious bodily injury or imminent death is more likely than not to be greatly overestimated in the vast majority of situations, especially when the attacker is basically a male attacking a similar sized male. i think the results of the scuffle relevant to this thread prove pulling the gun would've likely been a bad idea. though, we don't know exactly what and how it went down.

Dunno, the guy got his jaw broken and teeth rearranged bad enough that he needs an oral surgeon to repair them. Does that not qualify as serious bodily injury? I think anything requiring a hospital stay certainly does...And what if it was your son or your father getting attacked, or your wife? If I was witnessing somebody doing that to my friend a few feet away with the intention of doing it to me next I don't think I'd hesitate too much before pulling a pistol. I'm not even implying he had to shoot the guy, just having a gun pointed up their noses may have been all the disarming effect likely needed to change the attitude of the attackers. The point of carrying a gun for self defense is not to even the odds, it's to tilt them in your favor. Regardless, it's very clear that this dude should have had more training to prepare for the situation, he didn't pull his gun and ended up trying to prevent the other guy from taking it, that's scary!

 

[TOGIE]

I'm not a lawyer... but it's interesting that they included this in the statute

(f) A person who uses reasonable defensive force as defined by subsection (a) of this section shall not be criminally prosecuted for that use of reasonable defensive force.

2021 Wyoming Statutes :: Title 6 - Crimes and Offenses :: Chapter 2 - Offenses Against the Person :: Article 6 - Justification :: Section 6-2-602 - Use of Force in Self Defense; No Duty to Retreat.

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

i'm certainly no lawywer. but i would interpret that as the nice bow at the end that basically says to the DA, "so long as the criteria are met for self defense, you CANNOT, and will not, file criminal charges."

 

[OntarioHunter]

IMO he would have met the criteria.

I agree with you (mark that on your calendar). Someone getting his jaw broken on both sides (if that newspaper account is accurate ... a big "if") would seem to satisfy reasonable fear of being killed.

Something doesn't add up. Actually, a couple of somethings.

 

[TOGIE]

Dunno, the guy got his jaw broken and teeth rearranged bad enough that he needs an oral surgeon to repair them. Does that not qualify as serious bodily injury? I think anything requiring a hospital stay certainly does...And what if it was your son or your father getting attacked, or your wife? If I was witnessing somebody doing that to my friend a few feet away with the intention of doing it to me next I don't think I'd hesitate too much before pulling a pistol. I'm not even implying he had to shoot the guy, just having a gun pointed up their noses may have been all the disarming effect likely needed to change the attitude of the attackers. The point of carrying a gun for self defense is not to even the odds, it's to tilt them in your favor. Regardless, it's very clear that this dude should have had more training to prepare for the situation, he didn't pull his gun and ended up trying to prevent the other guy from taking it, that's scary!

i dunno, it would be for the jury to decide if two broken jaws bones constitutes "serious bodily injury." but i'm seriously guessing not. and i wouldn't want to gamble on it. my mind goes to irreparable life changing injuries under those words. the argument could be however: "without the gun he would've done even more damage" which is likely a very valid argument as the perception of that after seeing a guys face pummeled multiple time is real and likely valid.

i mean, yes, if i was party to the victim side of this and carrying a gun and this was going down i would probably have it in my hands. as more of a method of "something needs to stop this (in the sense that a loaded gun pointed at an aggressor should be able to freeze up the situation)" vs. "time to blow someone apart" thing.

people get their jaws broken in bar fights over women though, not sure that's a good reason to shoot someone in the chest. but it's also an endless "what if" game that's impossible to play.