Shoot First and Ask Questions Later...and Radios

[rjthehunter]

When PA first implemented these laws it included the brow tine and it was to have 4 on a side....

I found no BS 50 dead bucks that year that had been left to rot in the woods that were not legal. 50 is a low estimate probably. It was sickening.

I am in favor of antler restrictions. But I am not in favor of leaving deer lying in the woods to rot.

Also, letting someone know that deer are coming by the means of a radio is illegal and the game commission in PA 100% listens to all bands of Motorola on their scanners. I ASSURE you of that.

Dang, antler point restrictions only work if people take the time to look before they shoot. Sad that that many people shoot and don't look. MN considered doing an APR but it only works if people follow the rules...

 

[jmveverka]

I respect @JLS criticism and I'll clarify and give my rationale. Others may differ in how they addressed the situation, and that is ok. As for posting on the internet - this is not a trying to call someone out type of situation - this is just posting an interesting story 'as heard over the radio" nothing more.

So these are not "great" radios the range on them is going to be less than 2 miles and with the clarity we were getting on them we assumed they were on a neighboring property (could be one of several properties, and not necessarily the owners hunting, as there are some leases). We had seen guys in tree stands throughout the morning and knew there were hunters on those properties. This suspicion was verified when he heard the shots that followed the verbal alert. Sound direction can be tricky, but it probably narrowed it down to two or three places.

So why not report?
1. Lack of verifiable evidence and unknown culprit is one as already stated.
2. Small town community (of which the hunter may or may not have been part of) where most trespassing and minor violations are taken care of in a face to face manor.
3. Resources. Limited law enforcement on a super busy hunting day. I want them up on the public land a few miles away, not responding to our flimsy accusations and vague directions.
4. Use of radios - honestly I don't care and neither do most. Is it in the regulations as not legal? Yes. Do a lot of people use them? Yes. Deer drives, mooching, pushing...whatever you call it--it is a tactic used heavily in Pennsylvania. Radios for the driver are the norm. When they are in place they radio back and say "Heading in now" or "Starting now". The difference between that, and alerting your person on stand that you saw deer jump is not that big of a leap. We don't do it that way, but I am not going to make a big case about that one.
5. The unknown result. I don't know these guys. By the way they talked, we made some assumptions about them and their experience--but maybe they are hard up for meat, maybe they have not hunted or harvested recently, maybe they are super good guys that showed a lack of judgment. Not making excuses, but anyone can get caught up in the heat of the moment when hunting and deer are streaking at you. I am sure they were hunting legally with the right tags in their pocket. I am certain that someone shot an undersized, illegal buck. What I don't know is what they did about it. I don't want them to get in trouble. All I want for them to do is to do the right thing, recover the deer and take it to the Game Commission. Hell maybe they get to keep the meat and the commission takes the head. Maybe the whole things gets confiscated. I don't know. But I wasn't looking for punishment.

By chiming in the radio, I was just trying to give them a nudge in the right direction. Trying to override that little voice in your head that says, "noone knows about this, maybe I can get away with it". You are a better person than I am if that voice has never whispered in your ear. But if they KNOW, that someone else knows, then how will they react? I hope it was to self report.

 

[JLS]

Dang, antler point restrictions only work if people take the time to look before they shoot. Sad that that many people shoot and don't look. MN considered doing an APR but it only works if people follow the rules...

And rules only work if people are held accountable.

I'm done here.

 

[jmveverka]

But I am not in favor of leaving deer lying in the woods to rot.

Exactly what we didn't want. Now, if my dad goes for a walk today and finds a small buck lying dead up there, you can rest assured a call will be made with the few details we do know.

 

[VAspeedgoat]

The "most effective way" is entirely based upon assumptions. I didn't say he didn't anything illegal, and he said himself they were on the neighboring property. I just find it odd someone puts it on the internet but doesn't report it because they don't want to "raise a ruckus or create bad blood". Me, I'll call the game warden and give them the opportunity to do with it what they may or can. But, that's just me. YMMV.

You clearly stated you felt he ignored it though. I was saying he addressed it in the means he felt most effective. I would have to agree based on my experiences. You obviously have different experiences to think that a call to a warden would be more effective. Also, I don't think he put it on the forum to somehow shame a mystery hunter, I think he was just trying to spark reasonable conversation about an event from his hunting trip. I found it curious why you chose to be abrasive to the OP.

Truthfully, if these were seasoned poachers, they would be on a radio and they wouldn't have cared either way. My take would be they didn't call it in but they're scared as hell right now.

 

[jmveverka]

Also here is what the regs say, so it is clearly in their court to self-report:

Mistake Kill: Any person who kills any wildlife while hunting or trapping by accident or mistake shall immediately field-dress any edible game and deliver the carcass to a game warden in the county where it was killed. Big game killed by accident or mistake must be tagged with the appropriate big-game tag that is attached to the license before moving the carcass from the kill location. Use the tag you would have used for the animal you are legally licensed to take. Examples: An antlerless deer killed in mistake for an antlered deer must be tagged with the antlered deer tag; an antlered deer killed in mistake for an antlerless deer must be tagged with an antlerless deer tag; a hen turkey killed by mistake during the spring gobbler season must be tagged with a spring gobbler tag. Antlered deer that are killed by mistake and do not meet the minimum points requirements must be tagged with an antlered deer tag. (See the big-game regulations section for more details on how to handle a mistake deer kill.) If you have previously used a tag for a prior legal kill and need that tag for a mistake kill, use the tag you have remaining that entitled you to hunt legally.

 

[JLS]

You clearly stated you felt he ignored it though. I was saying he addressed it in the means he felt most effective. I would have to agree based on my experiences. You obviously have different experiences to think that a call to a warden would be more effective. Also, I don't think he put it on the forum to somehow shame a mystery hunter, I think he was just trying to spark reasonable conversation about an event from his hunting trip. I found it curious why you chose to be abrasive to the OP.

Truthfully, if these were seasoned poachers, they would be on a radio and they wouldn't have cared either way. My take would be they didn't call it in but they're scared as hell right now.

Because the approach is naïve and irresponsible as a sportsman. He stated if they find a dead deer, they'll report it. What the hell good does that do now? If he had reported it at the time, the game warden at least had the opportunity to 1) decide if it was a high enough priority to respond, which I'm sure it was, 2) attempt to contact the hunters in the field, 3) at the very least write down as many license plates as possible, and 4) there is always the possibility this wasn't these dudes first rodeo. Now, it's a moot point unless they turned themselves in.

What Mallard described is all too common in APR areas.

Based upon my experiences, your assumptions are off base.

 

[VAspeedgoat]

Because the approach is naïve and irresponsible as a sportsman. He stated if they find a dead deer, they'll report it. What the hell good does that do now? If he had reported it at the time, the game warden at least had the opportunity to 1) decide if it was a high enough priority to respond, which I'm sure it was, 2) attempt to contact the hunters in the field, 3) at the very least write down as many license plates as possible, and 4) there is always the possibility this wasn't these dudes first rodeo. Now, it's a moot point unless they turned themselves in.

What Mallard described is all too common in APR areas.

Based upon my experiences, your assumptions are off base.

Not an assumption, it's based on experience. I clearly stated that. A hunch over a radio is a far cry to a dead animal that likely contains evidence. This was private land. Find that and you can narrow down possible perpetrators quickly. Without that you have very little. We clearly agree to disagree, still not sure why you decided to be so abrasive to the OP about a topic thrown out for discussion?

Also, what happened to "I'm done here"?

 

[JLS]

Also, what happened to "I'm done here"?

I was answering your question. No danger of it happening again.

 

[teej89]

The guying radioing "Are we good" and the response of "no" is enough to point out this isn't their first time with this incident.

Only thing I hated about PA deer seasons were drives which resulted in wounded deer, illegal kills, and poor sportmanship.

The last buck I killed was shot 3 times before me, 2 in the back leg and one castrated him going through his left leg. I dropped him in his tracks, a guy walks over the hill. I heard the guy coming and already tagged him due to a potential who's buck is it argument. He walks up and asks where he hit it cuz all he saw was brown and he started firing.

 

[wytex]

Sounds to me like someone poached a deer, not many on here will condone that.
The GW should have been notified and he or she could make the decision to follow up or not. That is their job, especially in deer season.
When you post something like that on here you have be willing to take the responses, with grain of salt in some instances, why else post it.
We've all had responses we didn't expect or agree with, it comes with the territory so to speak.
Hope they don't take many more illegal deer or your hunting may suffer from it.
I would hope, like you it was an honest mistake but do you know for sure they don't just shoot first and ground check after ?

 

[VAspeedgoat]

I was answering your question. No danger of it happening again.

Only question I asked was why so abrasive to the OP? You never answered it.

 

[brownbear932008]

I was with a guy once and this same thing happened while on our hunting lease. Except this was an officer that got on the radio and told them they better bring the four point in to the check station and not leave it as they were discussing on the radio.
Should have seen the chewing they got when they arrived. Priceless, some folks have zero ethics in the field.

 

[lynlan1819]

Happens all the time here in Nevada,watched a guy shoot an illegal deer before legal shooting time,he admitted his mistake and said he would contact a Game Warden,well the next day we found the deer still laying where he killed it,so we know he took off without reporting it.
You would laugh about some of the dog size deer I see guys kill every year in this state.