Sean Gerrity/American Prairie Reserve on Meateater

[madtom]

I was pretty underwhelmed when his three most brilliant ideas for generating money for wildlife were:

1. Raising license fees
2. Excise taxes on more products
3. Wildlife stamps for non-consumptive wildlife users.

They’re all fine ideas, but he shouldn’t try to sound like the smartest person in the room when he’s bringing up “new” ideas we’ve been fighting over for decades already. I was also shocked to learn that a resident MT elk tag is $20. Maybe they sell that many more if they cost basically nothing.

 

[Eric Albus]

straight....none of us here in the east are "stupid enuf" to run our cows/heifers next to the neighbors bulls either, but the neighbors here have enough common sense and courtesy to not let their bulls run "free range and unfenced".

 

[Straight Arrow]

..."free range and unfenced".

We saw a lot of fences around the APR. Have they recently been removed?

The APR bison have been on the landscape for years now and there are no reports of real problems with neighbors' livestock or crops, so it only seems reasonable that at least the paranoia regarding bison running rampant all over eastern Montana tearing down fences and destroying crops should have diminished. IMO, folks in the neighborhood would be better served by getting together with APR discussing the real true concerns of such a prairie bison operation, rather than continuing to exacerbate the fear mongering. If you see a spark of concern about a potential fire in your barn, it seems silly to throw gas on it.

 

[Addicting]

I listened to it last night. My question was why does a easement have to be in perpetuity? Here where I live it is common for them to be of a set term of years, most I’ve seen are 99 or under. I can’t see FWP not accepting a 20 year easement while APR “figures it out”.

Then again I am against perpetuity as it has a fundamental flaw. Pretty sure no one can predict what the world will be like 1000 years from now it at the rate we are going.

 

[Rancho Loco]

The APR bison have been on the landscape for years now and there are no reports of real problems with neighbors' livestock or crops, so it only seems reasonable that at least the paranoia regarding bison running rampant all over eastern Montana tearing down fences and destroying crops should have diminished.

Is APR feeding them or are they truly free range?

 

[bigsky2]

Is APR feeding them or are they truly free range?

They are free range.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Is APR feeding them or are they truly free range?

'Not sure if APR feeds hay in winter conditions. Also not sure that "free range" applies only to confinement conditions or to feeding practices. Are you certain that grass hay fed cattle or bison on not "free ranging" if allowed to wander and graze large pastures? What is your definition of "truly free range" and from where was it determined?

 

[Nemont]

So there have been numerous cases of APR bison being on the neighbors. The issue everyone should be concerned with is special treatment of the APR in regards to what happens on our public lands. If livestock are to be removed from the grazing allotments then that should mean all livestock. Until they can prove their system works and they should have to prove that on their own deed lands first before interior fencing and water sources are removed.

Their money is as green as anybody's, they should just have to abide by the same rules. Fairly simple concept. If you think hunting is guaranteed in any way shape or form then you just aren't paying attention. Their goal is a national park and how much hunting goes on inside of Yellowstone and Glacier. You can make every excuse about why this will never happen but it is their goal.

https://news.nationalgeographic.com...rity-prairie-bison-conservation-great-plains/

Gerrity, a National Geographic fellow, would be among the first to admit that the American Prairie Reserve was not his idea. Instead, he says, "I make the puzzle pieces fit." He sees solutions where others don't, applying an entrepreneurial mindset to stalled conservation efforts.

People have been thinking about turning this corner of the prairie into a national park for more than a century. "What a beautiful and thrilling specimen for America to preserve and hold up to the view of her refined citizens and the world in future ages!" wrote George Catlin in 1841, while painting along the banks of the nearby Missouri River.

https://www.americanprairie.org/why-apr

No where in any of their Mission Statement, Purpose, Reasoning, funding or any other "Looking forward" planning is hunting mentioned. The first time a hunter does anything viewed as being "bad" in the eyes of a big money non hunter, I am willing to bet hunting and hunters will get a 2nd place seat and then 3rd place and then eventually no seat at the table.

Nemont

 

[Ben Lamb]

APR bison getting out of their fields is no different than a cow getting out. Same laws apply and so the same remedies, meaning you can kill bison doing damage to your property. Should we place this same burden on all livestock producers who's cows get out? No leases until they can prove that they won't leave the prescribed pastures?

As far as APR turning their finalized project over to the Fed as a new national park, the enabling legislation can be written to guarantee hunting in perpetuity. That's not anything I'd hang my hat on as far as a trouble. Look at the Valle Caldera in NM as a good example.

 

[Nameless Range]

APR bison getting out of their fields is no different than a cow getting out. Same laws apply and so the same remedies, meaning you can kill bison doing damage to your property. .

This is not true with cows, and if bison are livestock I doubt it is true with them. It is your responsibility to fence livestock out, and if they wander out of their allotment and, as they did in my case, stomp a few thousand dollars worth of sod into a divoted mess, the most you can do shoo them off. The only exception being if you are in a herd district you may have recourse.

Not really related to the APR podcast, which I enjoyed, but my pocketbook still burns with desire to lay waste to some bovine marauders and may forever.

 

[mtmiller]

1. So there have been numerous cases of APR bison being on the neighbors.
2. Until they can prove their system works and they should have to prove that on their own deed lands first before interior fencing and water sources are removed.
3. If you think hunting is guaranteed in any way shape or form then you just aren't paying attention.
4. Their goal is a national park and how much hunting goes on inside of Yellowstone and Glacier. You can make every excuse about why this will never happen but it is their goal.
5. No where in any of their Mission Statement, Purpose, Reasoning, funding or any other "Looking forward" planning is hunting mentioned.

Nemont

1. This is not unique to bison. I would love to show you some allotments where this is chronic on your public lands.
2. I am also apprehensive about removing fences completely before the system is proven.
3. Everyone is aware future hunting is not guaranteed, just like nearly every other piece of private land in this part of the state.
4. Not too concerned with any groups plan to make National Parks. I have concerns with the future of our public lands (PLT for example), but it has more to do with the decision makers and APR is not part of that group.
5. Hunting is not in their mission statement, so. Most of the public land they are permitted to graze is currently legal to public access anyway and they don't dictate the hunting.

 

[The Hedgehog]

miller, enough with the facts against paranoia. Burn these buffalo hippies at the stake.

 

[Ben Lamb]

This is not true with cows, and if bison are livestock I doubt it is true with them. It is your responsibility to fence livestock out, and if they wander out of their allotment and, as they did in my case, stomp a few thousand dollars worth of sod into a divoted mess, the most you can do shoo them off. The only exception being if you are in a herd district you may have recourse.

Not really related to the APR podcast, which I enjoyed, but my pocketbook still burns with desire to lay waste to some bovine marauders and may forever.

Maybe I'm reading this statute incorrectly, then: https://leg.mt.gov/bills/mca/81/4/81-4-206.htm

 

[Nameless Range]

Maybe I'm reading this statute incorrectly, then: https://leg.mt.gov/bills/mca/81/4/81-4-206.htm

It looks like you may be right, with a ten day notice. https://leg.mt.gov/bills/mca/81/4/81-4-208.htm

Though a few sections previous it defines animals running at large and omits cattle. Next summer I dine on fresh beef!

 

[Ben Lamb]

It looks like you may be right, with a ten day notice. https://leg.mt.gov/bills/mca/81/4/81-4-208.htm

Though a few sections previous it defines animals running at large and omits cattle. Next summer I dine on fresh beef!

Or start your own herd!

https://leg.mt.gov/bills/mca/title_0810/chapter_0040/part_0020/section_0170/0810-0040-0020-0170.html

 

[Nemont]

1. This is not unique to bison. I would love to show you some allotments where this is chronic on your public lands.
2. I am also apprehensive about removing fences completely before the system is proven.
3. Everyone is aware future hunting is not guaranteed, just like nearly every other piece of private land in this part of the state.
4. Not too concerned with any groups plan to make National Parks. I have concerns with the future of our public lands (PLT for example), but it has more to do with the decision makers and APR is not part of that group.
5. Hunting is not in their mission statement, so. Most of the public land they are permitted to graze is currently legal to public access anyway and they don't dictate the hunting.

1. I never said it was unique to anything. The poster couple of posts above me said that Bison weren't known to have left the APR property or words to that effect. I also never said that there were not allotments in bad shape from current grazing by cows. If two wrongs make a right then I guess the APR is good to go.

2. Fair enough

3. I understand that hunting on all deeded lands is not guaranteed. We are on a hunting forum, where it appears the majority think the APR is better than other land owners at providing access. They are no better or worse in my experience, they pick and choose just like every other land owner.

4. PLT is a concern, it appears about as likely as a national park so ergo my mentioning what the APR's actual long term goal is.

5. How much public land can they block by shutting down access through their private deeded land? Or make access extremely difficult for parcels that used to be fairly easy to get to? Legal access to some of the better lands isn't set in stone on a lot of the APR. Look on a map where their deeded lands are located. So no they can't "dictate" hunting, they certainly could make life much more difficult for the average Joe, especially if the money people are anti hunting.

Again their money is as green as anybody else who can buy those properties, they have every right to do as they wish on their private, deeded lands. I would stand up for them at every public meeting and defend their property rights. Just don't pretend they are somehow a pro hunting organization who cares about the hunting public. They aren't and never will be. They are one large donations away from painting their fence posts fluorescent orange. That is their right as well, I just don't get all jiggly inside thinking about free ranging bison throughout the CMR on year round basis. Your mileage may vary.

Nemont

 

[Sytes]

It looks like you may be right, with a ten day notice. https://leg.mt.gov/bills/mca/81/4/81-4-208.htm

Though a few sections previous it defines animals running at large and omits cattle. Next summer I dine on fresh beef!

Nameless will soon enhance the phrase, "Shooting fish in a barrel"...

I've nothing to add... other than a chuckle, be it self satisfying or a few amused.

 

[Straight Arrow]

The poster couple of posts above me said that Bison weren't known to have left the APR property or words to that effect.

If you were referring to my post, then you have misstated what was written.

The APR bison have been on the landscape for years now and there are no reports of real problems with neighbors' livestock or crops,

Leaving the property to graze on neighboring pastures vs harming livestock or crops are two very different scenarios.

The paranoia to which I alluded was a significant concern about bison running rampant and creating "real problems" widespread enough to make the news.

 

[MTGomer]

3. I understand that hunting on all deeded lands is not guaranteed. We are on a hunting forum, where it appears the majority think the APR is better than other land owners at providing access. They are no better or worse in my experience, they pick and choose just like every other land owner.

Be interested to hear you expand on hike experience. They let people hunt and they want more wildlife.

Pretty much the opposite of other well known, large landowners.

 

[mtmiller]

4. PLT is a concern, it appears about as likely as a national park so ergo my mentioning what the APR's actual long term goal is.


Nemont

So you find both unlikely? Curious why you even mentioned it.

I will still have concerns on PLT when it is written into the Montana GOP Platform, but not get too concerned when "hunting" isn't included in the APR Mission Statement.

Out of curiosity, what public parcels are you referring to were accessible to "average Joe" through private land that are no longer accessible?