SE Montana winter kill

[EYJONAS!]

Very nice post dunc, I know your just relaying some information in the first paragraph but I'm not buying some of that b.s. they say. In some districts where the rifle season was only 3 weeks they had tremendous deer, because of not being able to hunt the rut. The year they changed it the deer got pounded and definitly put a hurting on the older mature bucks that only showed themselves in a weak moment of finding a few does. Every year it's gone down and down, I'm not saying their not there anymore just not the numbers.
I like the idea of a proposed unit like 652, if they did that and enforced it for a few years i would be real surprised to not see some age class and quality come back.
I guess I'm on the polar opposite of fwp on this subject they don't think they have a problem and i think they got a real problem. I'm just a ant in the hill though.

 

[oldschool.06]

I'm far from an expert and have only been there a couple times so I don't have squat to compare to as I am a very new hunter but I must say I did see quite a few decent bucks in 7 and even some real whoppers as well . If I was more experienced I might have got one but when I was peeing myself trying to get one in the crosshairs due to a bad case of buck fever I couldn't get a shot off on the beautiful wise old dude and he did what Muleys do and vanished into thin air . lol

I think like everywhere you gotta get over the first ridge line or hill from the road and its a completely different place . I saw lots of does and forkys from the road and all the mature bucks off the road . I am sure the population will suffer but from what I witnessed last year there should be plenty of survivors ready to get out there and repopulate the region .

 

[EYJONAS!]

What makes 652 a special permit over 630? Why do we even waste our time with areas like 312? How come in region 4 and 6 in the C.M.R. is regulated but another area isn't.

 

[Bulldog0156]

In case anyone is interested, they doubled the number of tags given in 652 last year. Sounds like it was a lot tougher to get away from people. Kinda a bummer; in my opinion it has no better trophy potential than anything else that way, but it used to have a lot less hunters.

 

[BuzzH]

Well i knew if anyone had a answer to that it'd be you, thanks for the response I hope they decide to do something in the future. If any thing is proposed to make a change for the better I'm 150 percent in on supporting it. I'll just keep grinding it out and one day it'll pay again.

I think mdunc hit on a couple key points, the satisfaction survey data is a g-damn joke. I took that survey and if you think that political surveys/polls lead to a desired outcome...you would have loved that POS. Yet, they lean on that every single time you recommend shortening up a season or reducing tags. I bet when I was chewing Mike Thompson's ass at the Missoula public meeting, he hit me with that "well, hunters want opportunity" line a half dozen times.

Seriously, when a biologist stand there, and tells you bull to cow ratio's don't matter, cow to calf ratio's don't matter as long as elk are within objective is ALL that matters...WTF does he even have a job any longer? Then, he admits they killed way too many whitetails in the Blackfoot, to the point they still haven't recovered in 10 years...again, why wasn't he sent packing in 2004 when that bullchit happened? Its pretty pathetic when you mess up whitetail hunting for 10 years. I wont get into mule deer management in the Blackfoot either...don't have time to write a novel about that epic cluster-shag. Plus, there aren't enough left to even worry about.

It would be one thing if it was one area, but its not one area. I talk to, and know, a lot of people all across the State and I don't hear much good news. In fact, had a PM this morning from a guy that knows his stuff...and it was the same old same old. Game on the ropes and Sportsmen and the MTFWP not doing anything.

Its really too bad its going to take things getting even worse, but its going to.

To sum it up best, my last comment to Mike Thompson was telling....I said, "You know, other than turkeys, lions, and wolves, the hunting in Montana is worse now than when I started in 1979"...His response, "I would agree with that".

I said no more and walked away....

 

[mdunc8]

In some districts where the rifle season was only 3 weeks they had tremendous deer, because of not being able to hunt the rut. The year they changed it the deer got pounded and definitly put a hurting on the older mature bucks that only showed themselves in a weak moment of finding a few does. Every year it's gone down and down, I'm not saying their not there anymore just not the numbers.

Where and when was that? I didn’t realize they had that in Region 7 (know it exists on the CMR)

 

[EYJONAS!]

I guess I have included all region 6 and 7 in my discussion throughout this topic.

 

[mdunc8]

Gotcha.

 

[HalfAce]

So I just took a look at this years regs, what do you all think about Region 7 Mule Deer doe permits going up by 3,000 permits and either sex Antelope staying the same? Are there areas in region 7 that didn't get hit with as bad of a winter? Or does fwp really always make changes one year late?

 

[EYJONAS!]

They do whatever they want, hell they could change it August. Id say some areas are worse then others. I guess we will see when the snow melts and what next season brings us, only time will tell. There's some areas where there could be some does taken vs. whacking a 2 or 3 year old buck. I'm glad I chase sheep it takes my mind off all of it.

 

[8andcounting]

So I just took a look at this years regs, what do you all think about Region 7 Mule Deer doe permits going up by 3,000 permits and either sex Antelope staying the same? Are there areas in region 7 that didn't get hit with as bad of a winter? Or does fwp really always make changes one year late?

Looks to me like it's the same . There's was 11,000 sold last year and that's the quota this year

 

[HalfAce]

Looks to me like it's the same . There's was 11,000 sold last year and that's the quota this year

Your looking at the 2018 regs.

2017 had 7,500 mule deer doe permits.

2018 is now 11,000 mule deer doe permits.

3,500 permit increase.

 

[8andcounting]

Your looking at the 2018 regs.

2017 had 7,500 mule deer doe permits.

2018 is now 11,000 mule deer doe permits.


3,500 permit increase.

Your wrong. 2017 they sold 11k

 

[8andcounting]

The original regs for 2017 had 7500 listed but they changed it to 11,000. Here's the link http://fwp.mt.gov/fwpDoc.html?id=84630

 

[Stubaby]

No reason for any mule deer with ovaries to be killed outside of city limits. Ever.

 

[8andcounting]

No reason for any mule deer with ovaries to be killed outside of city limits. Ever.

I don't know about ever . But not right now .

 

[EYJONAS!]

No reason for any mule deer with ovaries to be killed outside of city limits. Ever.

There's areas that some doe harvest can help. Need to manage does too. Id rather see some one kill two does then a 2 or 3 or 4 year old muley buck

 

[mtmuley]

No reason for any mule deer with ovaries to be killed outside of city limits. Ever.

Funny. mtmuley

 

[uncle sage]

Most any Rancher with feed and a desire to grow his herd, never sells his heifer calves. Why is that?

I'll throw in with those advocating a doe harvest if the critters are stable or are out growing their habitat but if the numbers are down to way down, IMO, the take should mostly be bucks only. There is greed at play here, not sound management.

 

[EYJONAS!]

What is a healthy ratio can anyone share what a honest healthy ratio is. Buck doe...... doe fawn