SE Montana winter kill

[8andcounting]

The weird thing about is we (my group) hunt for Muleys in central MT and after 2009-2011 bad winters the numbers of deer were way way down and the next few years 2012 and 2013 we killed our best bucks . So just saying , just cuz numbers are down or may be down don't assume there won't be good bucks

 

[EYJONAS!]

The weird thing about is we (my group) hunt for Muleys in central MT and after 2009-2011 bad winters the numbers of deer were way way down and the next few years 2012 and 2013 we killed our best bucks . So just saying , just cuz numbers are down or may be down don't assume there won't be good bucks

Where have you read any one say that, probably the biggest thing I push is let good young deer live and have a chance to reach maturity and their full potential. Don't just take a "4 pointer" just because, look a good mature buck.

 

[8andcounting]

Where have you read any one say that, probably the biggest thing I push is let good young deer live and have a chance to reach maturity and their full potential. Don't just take a "4 pointer" just because, look a good mature buck.

All I'm saying is : don't assume there won't be mature bucks . I'm not telling anyone to come out and shoot a forky . I'm simply saying with all the bad news , don't let it stop you from coming . You can still have a good hunt and get a mature deer .

 

[tjones]

The weird thing about is we (my group) hunt for Muleys in central MT and after 2009-2011 bad winters the numbers of deer were way way down and the next few years 2012 and 2013 we killed our best bucks . So just saying , just cuz numbers are down or may be down don't assume there won't be good bucks

Do you have any pics of these bucks?

 

[8andcounting]

Yes I have pics but I don't feel necessary to post . I should add we hunt deer mainly on private . All I'm saying is for the guys that want to come and hunt deer this fall don't lose hope of getting a good one . Not every mature buck is going to die this winter

 

[tjones]

Yes I have pics but I don't feel necessary to post . I should add we hunt deer mainly on private . All I'm saying is for the guys that want to come and hunt deer this fall don't lose hope of getting a good one . Not every mature buck is going to die this winter

I don’t care about any of that, I just like to see deer pics.

 

[mtmuley]

If there are a bunch of guys like 8andcounting and his outlook, there might only be 8 deer left when they are done. mtmuley

 

[mdunc8]

Go have some fun and shoot whatever kind of buck makes you happy.

 

[mtmiller]

Warm and fuzzies, pics not necessary. yawn....

 

[8andcounting]

If there are a bunch of guys like 8andcounting and his outlook, there might only be 8 deer left when they are done. mtmuley

Oh for Christ sake man ..... there'll be plenty of deer around . Sure some will not make the winter but things will work out

 

[ShootsManyBullets]

Oh for Christ sake man ..... there'll be plenty of deer around . Sure some will not make the winter but things will work out

NO! The world is ending

I remember it being pretty slim pickings after the last winter kill, but we did see some bucks. Nothing like before, but we saw bucks. We chose not to fill out tags for a couple seasons, but that was a personal choice not something I'd expect an award for.

 

[EYJONAS!]

I wish the entire E. Montana Region 6 and 7 areas were draw specific districts say 500 to 1000 tags per district either species tag WT or Mule Deer. You pick which unit and that's it, no jumping, maybe a couple weapons restriction areas i.e. muzzle loaders vs. rifles, archery only areas for the entire season. No driving all over hell, walk-in only areas, that would be sssaaawwweeetttt!!! Tell me we couldn't have some great opportunities for big ol bruisers. We need to get a little more enforcement on the over driving of some of these BLM tracts, that is one of the biggest issues in E. MT, people need to quit making their own roads.

 

[BuzzH]

I've said it before, if the MTFWP, that is charged with managing wildlife, issues tags...fill them. Every last one.

IMO, I don't think significant change is going to happen until MT wildlife reaches rock bottom...no use in trying to self regulate your way there.

If the FWP doesn't want to manage, and the hunters in Montana don't make them...well, keep on shooting all you can, as fast as you can.

 

[mtmuley]

Oh for Christ sake man ..... there'll be plenty of deer around . Sure some will not make the winter but things will work out

Depends on one's idea of plenty I guess. Bet the B tag hunters won't slow down. Sorry for the dig. mtmuley

 

[8andcounting]

Depends on one's idea of plenty I guess. Bet the B tag hunters won't slow down. Sorry for the dig. mtmuley

I've said for years there should be no b muley tags in R7 . I've had a few but burned every one

 

[EYJONAS!]

I've said it before, if the MTFWP, that is charged with managing wildlife, issues tags...fill them. Every last one.

IMO, I don't think significant change is going to happen until MT wildlife reaches rock bottom...no use in trying to self regulate your way there.

If the FWP doesn't want to manage, and the hunters in Montana don't make them...well, keep on shooting all you can, as fast as you can.

Well, where does a guy start, I don't know everyone but I know a couple people spread across E. MT. and many of them seem to feel the same way I do (whether right or wrong) on this subject. How would one go about this and bring it to light to begin the talk on proposing a change. All-in all is it even really a possibility? I know there are a couple local sportsman groups spread through E. MT and I have been to a couple meetings for one of them, this subject seems to remain touchy at least with this group. Would traction be better gained by a small group proposal or a single individual or would someone like BHA have better traction on this subject? Would they even want to try and take this on? Thanks

 

[BuzzH]

Well, where does a guy start, I don't know everyone but I know a couple people spread across E. MT. and many of them seem to feel the same way I do (whether right or wrong) on this subject. How would one go about this and bring it to light to begin the talk on proposing a change. All-in all is it even really a possibility? I know there are a couple local sportsman groups spread through E. MT and I have been to a couple meetings for one of them, this subject seems to remain touchy at least with this group. Would traction be better gained by a small group proposal or a single individual or would someone like BHA have better traction on this subject? Would they even want to try and take this on? Thanks

Very good question and I wish I knew the answer.

I've tried for 25 years and nothing has changed, same 11 week general season, same OTC tags, gobs of doe tags. Hunters wont give up a day of season, FWP wont quit issuing mountains of doe permits and having either-sex seasons.

You talk about closing some roads and blue hair across Montana catches fire.

I really don't think there will be significant change until things get so crappy that even the dumbest of dim light bulbs recognizes that things are bad. You'll get there, eventually.

Until then...keep shooting all you can, fill every tag.

 

[EYJONAS!]

Well i knew if anyone had a answer to that it'd be you, thanks for the response I hope they decide to do something in the future. If any thing is proposed to make a change for the better I'm 150 percent in on supporting it. I'll just keep grinding it out and one day it'll pay again.

 

[mdunc8]

I've had conversations and email exchanges with the Region 7 supervisor and manager on this topic. Based on the most recent emails I've received, I don't see anything changing while they're at the helm. I was specifically asking about the potential to create a small limited entry unit similar to 652 (or whatever the unit is that's on the Big Dry Arm of Fort Peck) to see if they could provide a different experience to what they already offer. They wanted nothing to do with it. They are under the impression that most hunters are happy with the current situation (I've been told a hunter satisfaction study backs this up), so they have no intention of changing that anytime soon. Furthermore, they had pretty good buck:doe and fawn:doe ratios, so you're going to be hard pressed to convince them they're doing something wrong. It sounds like the folks in the Bitterroot, who are exceptionally organized and active, had shitty ratios to help their case. That doesn't seem to be the case in Region 7. Finally, they're not convinced limiting harvest will increase the quality of bucks. I'm just relaying what they told me.

My thoughts, the average person on this board is much more knowledgeable about the biology behind mule deer and what goes on in other states than the average deer hunter in Montana. I also think that the average person on this board is much more concerned with trophy potential than the average deer hunter in Region 7. With that in mind, I can't imagine a scenario where you convince the Region 7 folks to make any widespread changes based on the quality of bucks you want to hunt. If most folks are happy with the quality of deer hunting in Region 7, it's tough to convince them and FWP that something is wrong.

Honestly, I enjoy hunting Region 7 and so do most of my friends and family. I realize I wasn't here 20 years ago, so my standard is much different than those who have been around longer than I. Maybe if things continue to decline, assuming they are, I will be complaining about how great the hunting used to be over dinner with my grandkids. Even though I look forward to my annual mule deer pilgrimage to Region 7 more than any other trip of the year (Wyoming antelope might trump everything this year though), I'd love to have the opportunity to hunt a limited area out there. That's why I suggested creating a small unit to test the idea out.

The area of 652 represents about 1% of all of Region 7. Based on the number of 652 applicants, I'm guessing a similar unit in Region 7 would displace fewer hunters than those interested in such an area (a net win for the limited area). If most hunters aren't interested in applying for such a hunt, they still have 99% of the region to hunt. I have no idea how difficult it is to create a new limited unit, but I suggested trying it out for a while to see how it worked and whether it received support from the hunting community. Still, no interest from anyone in FWP. However, the supervisor felt it necessary to forward our exchange to every biologist in the region...I know I'm only one person, so I didn't anticipate them to start the paperwork on my idea, but I did expect more of a discussion than what I got.

Based on the complacency of hunters in general, I don't see folks gathering enough momentum to get any meaningful change. I'm open to suggestions though.

 

[8andcounting]

I've had conversations and email exchanges with the Region 7 supervisor and manager on this topic. Based on the most recent emails I've received, I don't see anything changing while they're at the helm. I was specifically asking about the potential to create a small limited entry unit similar to 652 (or whatever the unit is that's on the Big Dry Arm of Fort Peck) to see if they could provide a different experience to what they already offer. They wanted nothing to do with it. They are under the impression that most hunters are happy with the current situation (I've been told a hunter satisfaction study backs this up), so they have no intention of changing that anytime soon. Furthermore, they had pretty good buck:doe and fawn:doe ratios, so you're going to be hard pressed to convince them they're doing something wrong. It sounds like the folks in the Bitterroot, who are exceptionally organized and active, had shitty ratios to help their case. That doesn't seem to be the case in Region 7. Finally, they're not convinced limiting harvest will increase the quality of bucks. I'm just relaying what they told me.

My thoughts, the average person on this board is much more knowledgeable about the biology behind mule deer and what goes on in other states than the average deer hunter in Montana. I also think that the average person on this board is much more concerned with trophy potential than the average deer hunter in Region 7. With that in mind, I can't imagine a scenario where you convince the Region 7 folks to make any widespread changes based on the quality of bucks you want to hunt. If most folks are happy with the quality of deer hunting in Region 7, it's tough to convince them and FWP that something is wrong.

Honestly, I enjoy hunting Region 7 and so do most of my friends and family. I realize I wasn't here 20 years ago, so my standard is much different than those who have been around longer than I. Maybe if things continue to decline, assuming they are, I will be complaining about how great the hunting used to be over dinner with my grandkids. Even though I look forward to my annual mule deer pilgrimage to Region 7 more than any other trip of the year (Wyoming antelope might trump everything this year though), I'd love to have the opportunity to hunt a limited area out there. That's why I suggested creating a small unit to test the idea out.

The area of 652 represents about 1% of all of Region 7. Based on the number of 652 applicants, I'm guessing a similar unit in Region 7 would displace fewer hunters than those interested in such an area (a net win for the limited area). If most hunters aren't interested in applying for such a hunt, they still have 99% of the region to hunt. I have no idea how difficult it is to create a new limited unit, but I suggested trying it out for a while to see how it worked and whether it received support from the hunting community. Still, no interest from anyone in FWP. However, the supervisor felt it necessary to forward our exchange to every biologist in the region...I know I'm only one person, so I didn't anticipate them to start the paperwork on my idea, but I did expect more of a discussion than what I got.

Based on the complacency of hunters in general, I don't see folks gathering enough momentum to get any meaningful change. I'm open to suggestions though.

Good post . Very insightful