sd points

[warmer]

MEDIA CONTACT :: Emily Kiel at [email protected]
GFP Commission Requests Input on Preference Point System
PIERRE, S.D. – Following a presentation by South Dakota Game, Fish and Parks (GFP), the GFP Commission is requesting public input on a proposal to cube preference points for all limited draw seasons. This would be for all seasons in which preference points can be purchased and accrued.
This proposed adjustment is intended to provide those hunters with a higher number of preference points a greater chance of drawing a limited license than currently exists. The proposed action would take the number of preference points a hunter has and add one for the current year application. That total will then be cubed and would determine the number of times each applicant's name is entered into the drawing.
For example, an applicant who has three preference points going into the 2018 East River deer season drawing would have a total of four upon submitting their application for 2018. Then that would be cubed to total 64; which means that applicant’s name would be entered 64 times for the 2018 East River deer season drawing. Under the current structure this example would result in a total of four chances in the drawing.
A more drastic example would be if an applicant has 20 preference points for the 2018 Black Hills elk season drawing. Adding one more point upon submitting an application for 2018 would bring the total to 21. Then this would be cubed to 9,261; which means that applicant’s name would be entered 9,261 times for this drawing.
This proposal would not change the drawing to a true top down preference point system. A hunter with the most preference points would still not be guaranteed a license before another hunter with less preference points, but the odds of drawing a license would be increased.
To comment on this proposal, send written comments to 523 East Capitol Avenue, Pierre, SD 57501, or send an email to [email protected]. To be included in the public record and to be considered by the Commission, comments must include a full name and city of residence and meet the submission deadline of seventy-two hours before the public hearing (not including the day of the public hearing) per HB 1006. The GFP Commission will discuss this proposal Jan. 11-12, 2018, at the Red Rossa Convention Center in Pierre. For those unable to attend the meeting in person, the discussion will be livestreamed at http://www.sd.net/home/.
-GFP-
I know some states do this is there any benefit or draw back to the system?

 

[beagle001]

I read this yesterday as well. I've never heard of states cubing the bonus points, but I can see the reasoning. I know there are many different draws in SD, but which ones are done by bonus points compared to preference points? I drew a WR Rifle tag a couple years ago and that was straight preference.

 

[Keeptrying]

The draw back is that 95% of the tags will go to the group who has over ten preference points. Because of the limited resource in South Dakota, by the time you would build up to ten points that group would be the twenty plus group. Statistically insignificant would be how I would label it. If you didn't know to start building points a decade ago you won't hunt elk in South Dakota for a very long time.

If they institute this my wife and I will burn our points on cow tags to gain experience for hunting out of state. Two less applicants to worry about I guess.

 

[NoWiser]

Genius. Create a system like Nevada where new hunters and applicants' chances of drawing decrease until they are 50 years old

 

[TimeOnTarget]

When talking elk, This will eliminate any chance of drawing for anyone but the max point holders. I've always liked that the new guy with 0 points still actually has a chance of drawing a tag. Slim it may be but there is still a chance.

My feedback will be a very strong NO on this one. This will just complicate the system with no benefit.

 

[Keeptrying]

At minimum SDGFP needs to release the numbers of people who hold points and the number of points they have. Until that information is released they can't expect people to voice a reasonable opinion on this.

When I went to GFP in Sioux Falls the day after the commission hearing the young man I spoke to said his opinion on the matter is that we need to make a change similar to Arizona. They give a certain percentage to the top point holders in a PP situation, and let the rest go to a random draw.

Either way, this plan sucks. Basically drums out all new hunters.

 

[Keeptrying]

https://youtu.be/tBjIzG7Ehcc

Here is the video explaining the SD draw. It's about elk but pretty similar for everything.

As it sits now for elk:
Landowner 50%
10+ points 30%
2+ points 15%
0+ points 5%

Mind you, the unsuccessful applicants from each group drop down into the next group. This isn't good enough for the people who were in the system before many of us even knew it existed. They want them all. The new proposal would give 95% of the 50% available after the landowners get their cut to the +10 point group. Like I said before, you will never catch up. It's only a matter of time before 95% isn't enough, just like the percentage they have now isn't enough.

If you watch the video above he addresses the fact that there are not enough tags to do a true PP system in SD, but that is essentially what they are doing. It will take decades to clear out those high point holders, and in the meantime everyone else will be SOL.

 

[Keeptrying]

From studying the draw odds not all of the landowner tags are taken, so those tags drop down into the +10 groups tags. For 2017 there were 171 tags for 2438 applicants in that group. It will take decades for people new to the system to have any hope of drawing a tag.

Edit to add: This is for H2 bull tag.

 

[warmer]

At minimum SDGFP needs to release the numbers of people who hold points and the number of points they have. Until that information is released they can't expect people to voice a reasonable opinion on this.

When I went to GFP in Sioux Falls the day after the commission hearing the young man I spoke to said his opinion on the matter is that we need to make a change similar to Arizona. They give a certain percentage to the top point holders in a PP situation, and let the rest go to a random draw.

Either way, this plan sucks. Basically drums out all new hunters.

Some of these numbers are available at the GFP website.https://apps.sd.gov/gf79license/DrawResultStat.aspx

 

[warmer]

5 guys with 36 points. How many tags need to go to "starting out hunters" before these guys draw?

 

[Keeptrying]

Some of these numbers are available at the GFP website.https://apps.sd.gov/gf79license/DrawResultStat.aspx

Those are the numbers who applied for limited seasons, not the amount of people who hold points in the system.

 

[Keeptrying]

5 guys with 36 points. How many tags need to go to "starting out hunters" before these guys draw?

What do you mean? An accumulated 36 points? For which season?

Elk in SD is a limited resource. Very limited. Not everyone gets to play, and if you just go by highest points the deck is really stacked against everyone but the people who started buying points years and years ago.

ETA: I see. Custer State Park Elk. If you go by who holds the highest points it is stupid to even let people buy into the system as the top ten point slots will draw all the tags for 100 years. South Dakota elk is a lottery. Your points are chances you buy in a draw. 36 years ago many, many hunters we're not even alive, or didn't even know SD had elk. Those people with Max points are owed nothing. No one ever promised them they would draw a tag, only the chance to do so.

 

[warmer]

I have 22 points for Custer State Park. I agree, no one ever promised me a tag, and I truly don't expect to draw. But no one is promising new hunters a tag either and that seems to be the issue. If the proposal goes thru, my chances go down, not a big fan of that. If the proposal goes thru, applications will plummet and revenue will also drop. Don't see the GFP willing to lose all the $10 application fees.

 

[warmer]

The draw back is that 95% of the tags will go to the group who has over ten preference points. Because of the limited resource in South Dakota, by the time you would build up to ten points that group would be the twenty plus group. Statistically insignificant would be how I would label it. If you didn't know to start building points a decade ago you won't hunt elk in South Dakota for a very long time.

If they institute this my wife and I will burn our points on cow tags to gain experience for hunting out of state. Two less applicants to worry about I guess.

I don't see where the percentages change?

 

[Keeptrying]

I don't see where the percentages change?

That percentage is per Kevin Robley(sp?) who presented this to the SDGF Commission.

Here is a link. It starts at about the 30 min. mark.

http://www.sd.net/blogs/archive/2017/12/15/listen-to-the-game-fish-parks-dept-meeting-3/

ETA: The reason the percentage changes is that when those unsuccessful applicants drop down into the next level, +2 or +0, they have a massive advantage in regards to points. They always had one, but now with cubing the system that advantage makes individuals with low points statistically irrelevant.

 

[warmer]

That percentage is per Kevin Robley(sp?) who presented this to the SDGF Commission.

Here is a link. It starts at about the 30 min. mark.

http://www.sd.net/blogs/archive/2017/12/15/listen-to-the-game-fish-parks-dept-meeting-3/

ETA: The reason the percentage changes is that when those unsuccessful applicants drop down into the next level, +2 or +0, they have a massive advantage in regards to points. They always had one, but now with cubing the system that advantage makes individuals with low points statistically irrelevant.

At 41:30 he states that the percentages will not change. I see Custer State Park any elk rifle as the biggest issue. Still don't see the GFP Commission giving up all that income.

 

[Keeptrying]

At 41:30 he states that the percentages will not change. I see Custer State Park any elk rifle as the biggest issue. Still don't see the GFP Commission giving up all that income.

True. He is referring to the percentage in each group. 0+, 2+, and 10+. Where the change happens is that all those unsuccessful applicants drop down with a massive number of tickets in the draw. Starting at 35:00 he starts talking about it, at 36:00 he gets very specific about the numbers. Odds of drawing a tag with less than 10 points goes way, way down. That is the whole point of this proposal, to sway the odds in the favor of those with more points. True, they will leave the groups the same, they will just make their applications statistically irrelevant.

 

[warmer]

So the GFP is left with two options:
1-reward the guys who have been buying points for 20-36 years
2-encourage beginning hunters with higher draw odds

 

[Keeptrying]

So the GFP is left with two options:
1-reward the guys who have been buying points for 20-36 years
2-encourage beginning hunters with higher draw odds

Ha! Spot on. No matter what they do people will scream.

I think you are right about losing revenue. Plenty of people willing to buy a ticket that might end up turning into an elk tag. Not so many willing to develop a 15 year plan to do so. If you know you have almost zero chance of drawing a tag for the first ten years..... This is all elk though. Deer is different, but definitely impacted. Muzzleloader is really gonna change.

 

[warmer]

I remember the days when muzzleloader was a draw by county and antlerless only. There were always tags leftover. Then it went to antlerless statewide OTC. Still only sold 4000 tags. When it went to "any deer", all at once everybody was a muzzleloader hunter! 7873 applications for 1000 tags in 2016.