Screwing over the Non-resident (or not)?

[cgasner1]

Also in before the lock

 

[cedahm]

Who cares.

We were talking about the hunter being able to hunt the land the tag came from.

You said they can’t. They can.

Apologies - I mis-read your statement that the landowner ‘must open up their land’ to mean the NM UW version where ‘open up’ means ‘open up their land to anyone with a valid tag for the unit’

 

[Treeshark]

Apologies - I mis-read your statement that the landowner ‘must open up their land’ to mean the NM UW version where ‘open up’ means ‘open up their land to anyone with a valid tag for the unit’

No worries. I should have chosen words other than “who cares,” that came across in a rude way that I didn’t intend.

 

[406dn]

There are more NR at the WI boat launch on pool 9 for the duck opener than WI plates. Could we restrict that to 10%?

You could. I grew up in North Dakota, my wife in South Dakota. Don't know if it's still true, but both states put restrictions on non residents, both to the number, and how long they could hunt.

 

[406dn]

All you people who say "I'm just happy with what I can get" are the same people that will land NRs into a smaller and smaller percentage of tags. As greedy residents want more and more, you'll still just be "happy" with what you can get.

I read this post just after getting home from the gym.

It amuses me, I guess, that when interacting with fellow hunters, who hold your elk hunting opportunity in their hands, you choose to call them greedy. That seems pretty ass backwards to me.

We could push to get 95/5 and double the price, and all of your whining couldn't stop it, at all. Insulting people, generally does not make them more inclined to meet you half way.

I'm not certain whether to tell you to keep up the good work. My guess is you will.

 

[GrantK]

NR hunting has never had anything to do with income brackets, it was always about priorities.

IMO/E, hunting for a lot of the newbies is one of the many things they do. They want hunting to be cheap enough that they don't have to decide between taking the kids and old lady to Disneyland OR going on a NR elk hunt. They want both, they want it now, and if they dont then they're being "priced out" of hunting. Certainly not priced out of Disneyland though, just their NR hunting license.

If the expectation is that a state should accommodate your broad base of activities to suit your income bracket, so you can do it all...I'm inclined to say tough chit.

If you want cheap hunting AND the trip to Disneyland, that's what resident hunting is there for.

Hunters need to get over this delusional idea they can have it all in every state they feel like hunting.

Some final thoughts, most of the serious NR hunters I know are not in the top income brackets. As it's always been in my lifetime, those that hunt as a NR that want it bad enough make it a high priority.

Many of the chronic bitchers in these threads probably never had to call a GF agency and have them send you the paper regulations and applications you filled out by hand. Nearly every state made you front the money via a paper check as well.

It's dirt cheap and so much easier to apply for multiple states now...I can only imagine the level of crying if they had to apply like NRs did 25 years ago. The cheap fees fronted and ease of application is another reason for the large influx of wannabes.

this is it exactly, as someone who once had to time sending in my applications so that both the application check and my mortgage check would clear I'm not all that sympathetic to the whining of NR hunters who go on 4 weeks of family vacations and then say a $2K elk tag is too expensive, go on less vacations or move to a state with elk...

These days I manage usually 2 elk hunts a year, sometimes 3, I accept that to do that as a NR I'm going to hunt some real lousy units, dump some cash into long odds draws, be flexible with my plans and schedule, buy expensive tags with low odds of success, and have to spend some real time and money that may not result in a good hunt...

All that said I know what I'm signing up for and it absolutely mystifies me that people feel entitled to good elk hunts in every state just because they spend 30 seconds applying every year, residents should absolutely have priority, and the NR should be happy that they get any opportunity, considering that resident hunting alone could probably reach harvest objectives in most places. I do wish we removed all the "pay to play" tags from the equation and made it truly random draw across the board at 80/20 or 90/10 but that seems to be an unpopular outlook with game agencies.

 

[Ought Six]

Also in before the lock

I learned something today

 

[brymoore]

I read this post just after getting home from the gym.

It amuses me, I guess, that when interacting with fellow hunters, who hold your elk hunting opportunity in their hands, you choose to call them greedy. That seems pretty ass backwards to me.

We could push to get 95/5 and double the price, and all of your whining couldn't stop it, at all. Insulting people, generally does not make them more inclined to meet you half way.

I'm not certain whether to tell you to keep up the good work. My guess is you will.

ID, MT, WY and other western states have trapping reciprocity which means NRs can only trap if the residents of the state have the same opportunity for that animal in the NR state.

Big game reciprocity could be a choice for greedy residents.

 

[cgasner1]

I learned something today

That’s why we are all here to learn

 

[MTGomer]

nonresidents are starting to sound like mountain bikers, and we know what we think of those

 

[noharleyyet]

Whiners about whining are swiftly becoming a category....

 

[BuzzH]

Who said all I'm concerned about is tags? Read post 290 if you forget...





I'm using WY as an example. I'm in line, I have an application in for a general tag.

Your last sentence is exactly what I'm talking about. Things are only going to get more difficult for NRs. The elk population has been steadily increasing in WY along with the number of resident hunters declining. Why should things be getting tougher for NRs?? Looks to me like they should be getting better.

You keep saying that Resident hunters numbers are declining.

If that's true, then point out which Resident LQ bull elk tags are going undersubscribed each year in WY.

Even if there were some, which there isn't, any remaining LQ bull elk tags would be available to NR's in the leftover draw.

I'm of the belief you're all full of crap.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

NR hunting has never had anything to do with income brackets, it was always about priorities.

IMO/E, hunting for a lot of the newbies is one of the many things they do. They want hunting to be cheap enough that they don't have to decide between taking the kids and old lady to Disneyland OR going on a NR elk hunt. They want both, they want it now, and if they dont then they're being "priced out" of hunting. Certainly not priced out of Disneyland though, just their NR hunting license.

Pucky's point, I believe, is also about stagnating wages/ inflation/ etc.

The spread between median earners and top 5% earns as dramatically widen in the last 25 years. With demand where it is today, it's at least plausible that you could dramatically raise tag costs without reducing demand to a point that it erodes tag sales.

Average joe might not be able to afford a trip to Disneyland or an elk tag while a top 5% earner could buy a guided hunt in 5 states every year.

 

[Nick87]

so would you guys be happy or unhappy if your DNR was forced to restrict buck hunting in an amount of tags equal to the amount of resident hunters that currently hold one each year, but then decided to shave off 10% for NRs, which means 10% of resident hunters go without a buck tag? would you be pro eliminating that 10% for NR? or pro keeping that 10% for NR?

if you can't be honest about your answer to that question then you can't be honest or even be on solid footing to have an opinion on tightening allocations in the west. simple as that IMO.

this is the nuts and bolts of why allocations are tightening in the west. not because we're at that point, but because we're headed to that point.

I'm laid up today so I've got lots of time on my hands. I changed my my mind I would be happy because it would mean a huge step in the right direction, and the DNR actually not worrying about ruffling feathers to do what's right for the deer herd. Maybe then some people would maybe see the results and the light bulb would go on for some. Sadly probably not, they're not interested in any of that. They want everything without giving up anything. For an example I had a plumber give me a quote a few years back and we got talking hunting. He was a transplant and had gotten permission to a large farm that used to be deer heaven that I'm fairly familiar with. They hunted like 12 days of gun season without seeing anything and was expressing his dissatisfaction with the way the hunting is. On the last day they killed a spike and a doe fawn. I'll never forget he said "yup only two deer we saw the whole year but we got it done!" I can't fault him he had a tag and was totally legally, shame on DNR though. But Jesus Christ man at some point does it not pop into your head like you know maybe they could use a little break. And just put the gun back on safe and think about the big picture for a minute.

 

[TOGIE]

I'm laid up today so I've got lots of time on my hands. I changed my my mind I would be happy because it would mean a huge step in the right direction, and the DNR actually not worrying about ruffling feathers to do what's right for the deer herd. Maybe then some people would maybe see the results and the light bulb would go on for some. Sadly probably not, they're not interested in any of that. They want everything without giving up anything. For an example I had a plumber give me a quote a few years back and we got talking hunting. He was a transplant and had gotten permission to a large farm that used to be deer heaven that I'm fairly familiar with. They hunted like 12 days of gun season without seeing anything and was expressing his dissatisfaction with the way the hunting is. On the last day they killed a spike and a doe fawn. I'll never forget he said "yup only two deer we saw the whole year but we got it done!" I can't fault him he had a tag and was totally legally, shame on DNR though. But Jesus Christ man at some point does it not pop into your head like you know maybe they could use a little break. And just put the gun back on safe and think about the big picture for a minute.

See absolutely, good for the herd.

Bit you’re over complicating it. The question really is this: are you okay not getting a single resident deer tag every year because a non resident is getting it instead?

 

[Nick87]

Bit you’re over complicating it. The question really is this: are you okay not getting a single resident deer tag every year because a non resident is getting it instead

Every year? I thought you said 90/10 split? I'm missing something.

 

[TOGIE]

Every year? I thought you said 90/10 split? I'm missing something.

We’ll just that statistically you can’t guarantee one every year.

i mean, the point is really now 10% of residents who im sure want to get a deer every year and many who I’m sure place high prize on eating deer will not be able to. 10% every year.

99% of whom have probably never left the state to hunt.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

And just put the gun back on safe and think about the big picture for a minute

I don't think a single deer should be hunted in Wyoming this year by residents or non residents. The herd is depleted.

 

[406dn]

On the last day they killed a spike and a doe fawn. I'll never forget he said "yup only two deer we saw the whole year but we got it done!" I can't fault him he had a tag and was totally legally, shame on DNR though. But Jesus Christ man at some point does it not pop into your head like you know maybe they could use a little break. And just put the gun back on safe and think about the big picture for a minute.

A short tangent, it is not just individuals, it is state fish and game commissions. Montana can provide numerous examples. One that bugs me, the state decided to carve out part of the 313 deer and elk district and put into the neighboring district. This district is the famous district next to YNP. The elk herd is significantly diminished after the wolf introduction.

More importantly, the brow tine bull to cow ratio is absolutely in the toilet. The state made a half hearted effort a number of years ago, to try improve the ratio. They made the last two weeks of the season hunting by permit only. This kicked in the 90/10 tag allocation we are arguing about. This did not make the outfitters very happy.

So the state, gave the outfitters an area they can pound for the last two weeks. It seemingly never occurred to the commission that Montana shares that herd with YNP and that perhaps the visitors might want to see a few mature bulls to go along with the herds of cows.

What should have been done if the elk herd's needs were put first is all of the hunting should have gone to by permit for the entire season. The 90/10 split would have crushed the outfitters, so they chose to crush the bull to cow ratio instead.

 

[Nick87]

I don't think a single deer should be hunted in Wyoming this year by residents or non residents. The herd is depleted. View attachment 317911

Yup and I'm totally for that if it needs to happen. Anywhere for that matter. In the duck blind I've said it so many times like man I wonder what it would be like if we could all just lay off for a year. I always get looks like I'm an idiot. Like I said everyone wants to bitch nobody wants to help. (Admittedly from a science stand point I don't know if shutting down duck season for an entire year is the solution but I'd totally sacrifice it.