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SB 397 - Anti-Carnivore bill up tomorrow

Ben Lamb

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The Montana Bowhunters Association sent out this fantastic action alert on SB 397. It's worth the time to read, then call 406-444-4800 and voice your opposition to SB 397.

April 7, 2013

Legislative Alert
Members:

Here’s what’s on tap for this week:

SB 397 “Establishing provisional hunting seasons for certain large predators.”

Hearing: April 9 at 3:00 pm in Room 152 – House Fish, Wildlife and Parks.

Oppose. Despite its seemingly limited scope, this bill impacts bear, lion and wolf hunting regulations as well as threatens multiple delisting actions. The MBA has supported increased harvest and expanded seasons during recent Tentatives cycles. Proper management of bear populations depends on responsible harvest and population monitoring to determine harvest impact. Proponents of this bill argue that we need to have more aggressive predator control measures. We believe the FWP has taken an effective and responsible approach to controlling predators.

Proponents attest that high predator numbers have suppressed calf recruitment and the rebound of ungulates. They state that the legislature must step in and create policy in order to meet biological objectives. In response to this, we respectfully remind proponents of the ramifications of past legislative actions. During the 2003 session, HB 42 was signed into law, instructing FWP to manage elk with the intent to reach “sustainable population numbers” by 2009. The Commission followed through with this directive, and in subsequent hunting seasons, increased antlerless quotas in many areas. In one such area, the West Fork of the Bitterroot, this resulted in the following harvest totals from 2004-2010.

elktable_zpsaf38dc13.jpg


Clearly, the objective of HB 42 was quickly met and then surpassed through liberal quotas in order to meet “biological objectives.” Interestingly, the West Fork is now “ground zero” of the predator discussion. In retrospect, we can say that at least some of the decline in elk populations in this area came as a result of the directive from the 2003 legislature. Management must rely on harvest rates and field studies to determine the cumulative causes of mortality. Ongoing research in the Bitterroot will reveal additional details regarding the effects of predation on elk, as well as other factors such as forage conditions, both of which will assist the FWP in making informed shifts in the management of predators. In recent years, the FWP Commission has done just that.

In response to mountain lion predation concerns, FWP has increased quotas and developed a hybrid season in Region 2. These actions have resulted in a 31% increase in mountain lion harvest during the 2011-12 season when compared to the 2008-2009 season.

According to the 2011 report, approximately 1,030 black bears were harvested in Montana annually between 1987 and 2006, with a mean population estimate for the state of 13,307 bears. In response to black bear predation problems, FWP has expanded hunting season dates in the spring and added an archery-only season in the fall. These actions have resulted in a 37% increase in harvested bears last year when compared to the previous 19 years. Proper management of bear populations depends on responsible harvest and population monitoring to determine harvest impact. We believe the current harvest practices are responsive enough to manage predation problems and that further legislation is not necessary.

In relation to wolf management, the bill may jeopardize wolves’ delisted status by changing how Montana carries out its management objectives. According to the delisting rule, the USFWS is actively monitoring Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming for five years beginning in 2011. The USFWS will examine any change in state laws to determine whether they will jeopardize the tri-state population. Additional scrutiny triggered by SB 397 will not reflect favorably on Montana. The rule clearly states that wolves can be relisted if a change in state law or management objectives would significantly increase the threat to the wolf population. We urge caution on the part of this legislature to avoid a review by USFWS and potential relisting. This season, 225 wolves were harvested through hunting and trapping, demonstrating that the Commission’s responsive and responsible management actions are working.

We present these points to demonstrate that much of what SB 397 asks for is already being done through Commission action. The experience in the West Fork is a lesson in the merits of careful and gradual management rather than directives for “quick fixes.” While we are not opposed to expanded seasons to assist in managing populations, we caution against an approach which will result in dramatic shifts in wildlife populations, jeopardize delisting actions, and sabotage our opportunity to hunt grizzlies.
 
In 2004 the objective for the hunting district was 1400, It was recommended by the Elk working group and others to move the bar up to 2000 in 2005. Later that recommendation was approved. Even though the objective was never met the recommendation of the Elk working group was to continue with liberal harvests of elk during that time frame.
 
The data for the area from 1980-2010 are <HERE>
(I apologize the link is to a biased site, but it is the only place where I found the full data when I was looking up Barrett's HB 42. I just find the data very interesting and though I'd pass it on.)

Key point seems to be that elk harvest jumped from 150-200 animals before 2003 to 660 animals in 2004 and remained at historically high harvest levels. Also look how the elk numbers now are similar to what they were in the 80s to early 90s. Wolf numbers are up significantly too, but the increased cow harvest surely had an impact.
 
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What? Wolf numbers are up? Must be a coinicidence.... FWP allowing harvest of to many elk? Must also be coinicidence....Elk numbers have fallen off the face of the earth? I smell a vast Right Wing Coincidence....
 
"We gotta kill all them woofs, there ain't no wildlife left in the wilderness!"

"We're gonna need another 1500 licenses, just for wilderness, because we want more dudes to come to MT and kill all these elk!"

Harrumph.
 
I have some good friends who are houndsmen and we will disagree on bear chasing with hounds. Not because I have a problem with using hounds for hunting, but because of the disruption it is going to cause for spring bear hunters.

Notice how this bill gives another welfare handout license to non-residents. Why should they get a discounted license to be hunting bears in these seasons? The NR who wants to go spot and stalk has to pay full frieght, but the guy who wants to go with hounds gets some "gubment cheese." Am I reading that right?

If I was a houndsman, I would be thinking this through a little more from the big picture perspective. There is an old saying, "Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered." Are the houndsmen being hoggish in this instance?

This has turned into nothing more than a back door effort to get HB 144 passed, a bill killed earlier in this session. Not sure how many times the discussion has to take place for people to understand - Montanans are just fine with existing black bear seasons.

The snaring provision in this bill is going to be a disaster. I have snared a lot in other states where it is allowed. It takes practice and skill. I was lucky to have a very good trapper show me the ropes. I can see some untrained person hanging wire all over hell in these areas and anyone who knows the lethality of snares, knows that it this could be a problem. Even with break aways and closure stops.

But, if it passes, we will have taken another crack at the predators, have went closer to screwing up state control of wolves, and have pitted two hunting groups against each other. It will not result in even a small iota of difference in elk numbers. What a joke. I guess that is what you get when the legislation is sponsored and carried by an SFW guy.

Some day, the houndsmen will find their seasons under attack, as has happened in many western states. They will ask for the support of all hunters to help defend the attacks. Wonder what the response will be when that time comes - pigs or hogs?

Same with trapping. As if we don't have enough problems with attacks on trapping at this time. Now, we are going to hang wire in many places that will eventually result in some problems and futher black eyes for trapping. As a person who is committed to trapping, I think the snaring parts of this bill are harmful to the future of trapping in Montana.
 
I was at the Senate FWP hearing when this bill was heard and do not remember a single houndsmen that supported the bill. I seem to recall one houndsmen speaking in opposition to the bill. Also do not recall any trappers supporting the bill. I made the comment later to some people as to "how do you bring a hound hunting bill forward without the support of hound hunters?"The primary supporters were SFW people, MOGA and landowner/rancher groups.

Should be interesting at today's hearing to see who shows up,
 
I just want to add that baiting will still be allowed by this bill. It will be under the guise of baiting for wolves, and it will be allowed from 9/1 to 6/30 (see section 3). You can even use roadkill. I don't see anything that prevents you from hunting bears near these bait stations, but the bigger issue in my mind is that these bait stations could be set up in Grizzly bear country (based on what the elk regulations are) and be a hazard to hunters and recreationalist.

I don't know.. maybe I'm nuts to worry about this aspect of the bill. What do you guys think?
 
I just want to add that baiting will still be allowed by this bill. It will be under the guise of baiting for wolves, and it will be allowed from 9/1 to 6/30 (see section 3). You can even use roadkill. I don't see anything that prevents you from hunting bears near these bait stations, but the bigger issue in my mind is that these bait stations could be set up in Grizzly bear country (based on what the elk regulations are) and be a hazard to hunters and recreationalist.

I don't know.. maybe I'm nuts to worry about this aspect of the bill. What do you guys think?

Those are valid points, you should bring them to Helena. A fella was killed outside of Yellowstone because he ran into a bait site put out by bio's.
 
Those are valid points, you should bring them to Helena. A fella was killed outside of Yellowstone because he ran into a bait site put out by bio's.

That's a good story to relay. Was that the guy in Wyoming? I think he was a biologist or something who ignored the posted warnings? (of course there wouldn't be posted warnings with these proposed bait stations).

A few years ago there was a bow hunter mauled in Island park when he stumbled across a dead cow that was claimed by a grizzly. I remember he lost his ring finger when his ring got caught in the bears tooth.
 
I just want to add that baiting will still be allowed by this bill. It will be under the guise of baiting for wolves, and it will be allowed from 9/1 to 6/30 (see section 3). You can even use roadkill. I don't see anything that prevents you from hunting bears near these bait stations, but the bigger issue in my mind is that these bait stations could be set up in Grizzly bear country (based on what the elk regulations are) and be a hazard to hunters and recreationalist.

I don't know.. maybe I'm nuts to worry about this aspect of the bill. What do you guys think?

Nice points Rob. I made similar points with respect to baiting and grizzly country when the hounds issue came up under the house bill. Montana has a drastically larger amount of area with grizzlies, which overlaps substantially with the black bear population, than Idaho seems to have as they disallow baiting in a small portion of the state.
 
It's about 4:1 in opposition to the bill. Shoots, Rob, Pierre & Vito are among the folks lined up to talk.

Only supporters are SFW.
 
The hound hunters impressed me today. They showed up and demonstrated their commitment to the bigger picture. Thanks to the houndsmen and their groups for standing against this bill.

So many volunteers were there testifying against the paid staff of these other groups. When one looks at what this small group of dedicated volunteers is accomplishing, it is truly remarkable.

Thanks to all who are working so hard to make such a great difference for all of us. I wish that all hunters are able to recognize the work of some very dedicated hunters who are doing so much and doing it all as unpaid volunteers.
 
It's about 4:1 in opposition to the bill. Shoots, Rob, Pierre & Vito are among the folks lined up to talk.

Only supporters are SFW.

The damn hounds man cut in line, and I had to let two ladies get in front.When the music ended I had no chair. :(

Are there any "TRUE" sportsman in the room?
 
Are there any "TRUE" sportsman in the room?

That comment from SFW was a laugher. Good thing I was not there, upon hearing that one I would have laughed out loud, so hard, the Sergeant at Arms would have had me dismissed. Might have even rolled on the floor, holding my stomach.

For SFW to make that statement is like Bernie Madoff attesting to his trustworthiness as a custodian of other people's money; like Jane Rivers proclaiming the vanity of face lifts; like Ryan Leaf teaching citizenship classes to grade schoolers; like PETA claiming to be conservationists; like .........
 
Are there any "TRUE" sportsman in the room?

I looked at the sign in sheet after the hearing. It was 1.5 pages long. There were six proponents. Three were individuals, 2 were SFW, and one was UPOM, who wasn't in the room from what I saw.

MT Houndsman, Bitterroot Houndsman, Ravalli Fish & Wildlife, Russell Country Sportsmen, Headwaters Sportsmen, Skyline Sportsmen, Anaconda Sportsmen, Libby Rod & Gun Club, MWF, MSA, MBA, Audubon were all there to oppose.
 
Fun stuff up there. Lots of regular folks from Darby. Wish they gave more time to speak on a bill that had so many separate problems.. funny to run into the father of the fullback who creamed the hell out of me in football. ("Yup, I remember that game. Felt sorry for you guys," said Mr. Ruark.) Don't mess with the guys from Darby is what I learned in the 80s. Seems still true today.

I just got a notice that SB 143 "Bison are vermin" will be heard on Thursday.
 

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