SB 298 - Crossbow bill rears its ugly head

[rogerthat]

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[TheTone]

. I would be near 100% successful during archery guaranteed vs 50% that I am now

I felt exactly the same after shooting a crossbow.

The people I was shooting it with were drilling bullseyes immediately out to 40 yards. None of them bowhunt, shoot a bow, and probably couldn’t pull 40lbs on a compound

 

[rogerthat]

I think back to all the crap I have gotten hosed out of because of that thing called a draw cycle. It’s in the hundreds of animals…but they are the same. Give me a break!!

 

[The Hedgehog]

The stigma of taking a crossbow out hunting might deter some people. Well maybe not.

 

[JM77]

So last years archery season I kept getting glimpses of a large seven point across the valley so I decided to get up really early and give him a spin. At first light I was on the other side of the valley on a glassing knob. Elk started to materialize in the gray light. He would bugle sparingly. I shadowed them as they made their move towards their beds. As they moved my last chance for visibility in sight I made my move sprinting towards a saddle I hoped they would arrive in. When I got there unfortunately the thermal was still down sloping. With no visibility lower, I setup on the backside hoping to somehow get lucky. Suddenly a cow came by me upslope 30 yards or less…than another…than ten more…I chuckled to myself with my luck as I had the drop and another large herd bull would be mine. I patiently waited for the herd bull to follow his cows. Suddenly a bugle rang out. Startlingly me. As I slowly turned around, I cam face to face with the bull 7 yards. My pins were on him. My bow undrawn. We locked eyes. I went for it….my bow half drawn. Well you get it. I got my bow half back, the bull bolted never to be seen again. Think that one gets away with a crossbow? That was my shot for the season. My tag went unpunched. 20 more days of elk hunting. Not another opportunity.

Nice story, but doesn't pass the stink test. He saw you turn around, you locked eyes and he's going to let you shoulder a crossbow at 7 yards? Or maybe you had it shouldered when you made that stealth turn around that didn't spook him? Whatever.

With all I read on this forum about hunting in Montana and why it sucks and the final straw will be the crossbow? I've hunted deer in Montana three times. I saw more mule deer than in Wyoming by far, but not much for quality. So I took home three big whitetails. I didn't need a crossbow, just used a gun.

 

[rogerthat]

Nice story, but doesn't pass the stink test. He saw you turn around, you locked eyes and he's going to let you shoulder a crossbow at 7 yards? Or maybe you had it shouldered when you made that stealth turn around that didn't spook him? Whatever.

With all I read on this forum about hunting in Montana and why it sucks and the final straw will be the crossbow? I've hunted deer in Montana three times. I saw more mule deer than in Wyoming by far, but not much for quality. So I took home three big whitetails. I didn't need a crossbow, just used a gun.

.

 

[rogerthat]

The stigma of taking a crossbow out hunting might deter some people. Well maybe not.

Legalize them and than we will just bully people into not using themlike a tricycle and…

 

[bigsky2]

Let's get this thread back on track. The bill is supposedly intended to help the disabled. If you're not aware, Montana has a Permit to Hunt From a Vehicle. When that permit was first created, it was abused so much that disabled-hunter organizations actually requested to add the requirement for a companion. There were over 11,000 people taking advantage of the permit at that time. The companion requirement was established through SB101 in 2013.

For some reason, this crossbow bill would remove that companion requirement from the Permit to Hunt From a Vehicle. Seems to me that this would again open the door for a lot of abuse of the Permit to Hunt From a Vehicle. If a hunter is truly disabled to the point that they need to use a crossbow, they probably need a companion to help them break down the animal and get it out of the field too.

 

[golfer]

The fact that there is also no language in the bill for recertification is a head scratcher for me. In a post above one mentioned a perfect example of how this will get misused. Let’s take the shoulder injury from the ski accident. So you go to doctor and the doctor determines you as “disabled” and qualify for this. But in the mean time you do you PT and by the time hunting season roles around you’re an able bodied individual. So I’m guessing once an individual qualifies they will never go back to archery equipment even though they no longer have that disability. I understand some disabilities cannot be rehabbed but this is just one of many reasons showing how horribly written this is.

 

[tjones]

The fact that there is also no language in the bill for recertification is a head scratcher for me. In a post above one mentioned a perfect example of how this will get misused. Let’s take the shoulder injury from the ski accident. So you go to doctor and the doctor determines you as “disabled” and qualify for this. But in the mean time you do you PT and by the time hunting season roles around you’re an able bodied individual. So I’m guessing once an individual qualifies they will never go back to archery equipment even though they no longer have that disability. I understand some disabilities cannot be rehabbed but this is just one of many reasons showing how horribly written this is.

This is a big part for me to oppose. I went through shoulder surgery on 1/4/23 on injury I waited a year to fix.
The year before the surgery I slowly quit using my right arm due to pain. After the surgery and starting PT the arm was so weak it wasn't strong enough to lift itself over my head.

I would have easily been disabled enough by this bill to be able to hunt with a crossbow this fall. 14 weeks of PT, one hour of exercise every day at home I can now draw 30 pounds and working towards 40 and should be there in a couple weeks. I will shoot at least 50 pounds by summer and hoping for 60 pounds by season.

The fact that the sponsor left out any recertification seems suspect to me and probably self-serving.

 

[Zim]

I was being kind of facetious. As far as I know, Molnar has introduced this in every single session that he’s been in office in both chambers now.

Molnar is actually pretty rock solid on nearly every other conservation issue that HT type folks find important, and often votes against the rest of his party on these issues.

I have no idea who or what Ravin Coin is, but Molnar is a true believer on this crossbows. I surely disagree with him on a lot of his non-conservation stances and on this crossbow issue, but I think it’s disingenuous to call him “greased.”

Ravin is the major crossgun manufacturer who has been buying politicians all over the Midwest to sponsor legislation for xgun inclusion. They did it in IN ~2010, IL ~2017, also WI. And last year there were no less than three Ravin lobbyists in the Iowa statehouse, trying to pry their way into the crown jewel. These have ruined the public land quality wherever they go. The firearm hunter numbers steadily decrease each year as they cash in their guns to hunt the long archery seasons, causing severe overcrowding on public land.

 

[JM77]

The firearm hunter numbers steadily decrease each year as they cash in their guns to hunt the long archery seasons, causing severe overcrowding on public land.

You honestly don't believe this, do you?

 

[BrentD]

Ravin is the major crossgun manufacturer who has been buying politicians all over the Midwest to sponsor legislation for xgun inclusion. They did it in IN ~2010, IL ~2017, also WI. And last year there were no less than three Ravin in lobbyists in the Iowa statehouse, trying to pry their way into the crown jewel. These have ruined the public land quality wherever they go. The firearm hunter numbers steadily decrease each year as they cash in their guns to hunt the long archery seasons, causing severe overcrowding on public land.

You mean hunt the rut, and both sides of it. It may or may not affect gun hunting numbers - remember they can do both. But it sure as hell will wipe out the bucks that are already hard pressed to mature in this state.

 

[rogerthat]

Sorry, I didn’t intend to hit the “like” button. I suggest you try carrying a clunky, noisy, bulky, cumbersome, heavy, crossbow for a few days trying to stalk any big game animal. I think you will come away with a different perspective of how “ easy “ hunting with a crossbow is.

You know you can just hit the like button again and it takes the like away right? No reason to be going around accidentally liking posts you actually dislike

 

[DFS]

My right shoulder is aching and when this bill passes I will be packing a clunky cumbersome crossbow and shooting sticks just to prove a point.

 

[BuzzH]

My right shoulder is aching and when this bill passes I will be packing a clunky cumbersome crossbow and shooting sticks just to prove a point.

Hilarious...since my Dad started hunting in 1957 there have been changes. Instead of the standard 11 week season, there's now a Saturday opener over the traditional Sunday. We stacked a 2 day youth deer hunt too in between archery and rifle. Then in a stroke of brilliance, the archery hunters supported the week long muzzleloader season in December to keep that season out of October. Funny that the muzzleloader season happens after over the snow travel with machines is allowed behind locked gates, WMA's, etc.

So to summarize the only changes have been adding 10 days to an already 11 week long season, including opening areas to snow machines to polish off what's left of elk and deer that already endured the previous 11 weeks.

But, those damn crossbows, that's just a bridge too far, we'll just kill too much if we allow them.

WAFJ...

 

[rogerthat]

Hilarious...since my Dad started hunting in 1957 there have been changes. Instead of the standard 11 week season, there's now a Saturday opener over the traditional Sunday. We stacked a 2 day youth deer hunt too in between archery and rifle. Then in a stroke of brilliance, the archery hunters supported the week long muzzleloader season in December to keep that season out of October. Funny that the muzzleloader season happens after over the snow travel with machines is allowed behind locked gates, WMA's, etc.

So to summarize the only changes have been adding 10 days to an already 11 week long season, including opening areas to snow machines to polish off what's left of elk and deer that already endured the previous 11 weeks.

But, those damn crossbows, that's just a bridge too far, we'll just kill too much if we allow them.

WAFJ...

So after all that, why would you advocate for any additional “opportunity” for anyone? That’s the part that is just fascinating to me. “It won’t make much of a difference maybe none at all”. Yeah, maybe (I don’t think so and what Doug aims to prove obviously) but it sure as well isn’t a decrease in opportunity for anyone which is what we need.

 

[Flynarrow]

This bill is the camels nose under the tent. Crossbow manufacturers love those who are the front people touting just helping the disabled. But history of other states show that the ease of getting a physician to sign a form creates overwhelming demand which causes States to rollover to legalize crossbows for eveybody in archery season. This bill also omits any requirement for a companion to assist in processing the animal or getting it out of the woods. Nor is their a requrement for any recertification of the disability....one and done for life!

Once legalized for everyone bowhunters jump ship....in Ohio, 71% of deer kills are with crossbows, Michigan, 67%, Wisconsin 60%, and Pennsy 65%.

I'm nearly 80 and still hunt 30 days a year or more with my longbow. Guess it is time to hobble down to my nearest physician.

 

[xcskier_hunter]

This bill is the camels nose under the tent. Crossbow manufacturers love those who are the front people touting just helping the disabled. But history of other states show that the ease of getting a physician to sign a form creates overwhelming demand which causes States to rollover to legalize crossbows for eveybody in archery season. This bill also omits any requirement for a companion to assist in processing the animal or getting it out of the woods. Nor is their a requrement for any recertification of the disability....one and done for life!

Once legalized for everyone bowhunters jump ship....in Ohio, 71% of deer kills are with crossbows, Michigan, 67%, Wisconsin 60%, and Pennsy 65%.

I'm nearly 80 and still hunt 30 days a year or more with my longbow. Guess it is time to hobble down to my nearest physician.

In Vermont the crossbow harvest is 77% of the total archery harvest. The main hunting strategy honestly appears to be still hunting with a crossbow. Makes deer behavior during archery season much more unpredictable than it used to be. Admittedly, in Montana the hunting style differences between weapons would probably be less pronounced.

 

[TheTone]

I’ve got a sweet trail camera picture of a guy riding his atv with his loaded crossbow strapped across the front rack