SB 298 - Crossbow bill rears its ugly head

[rogerthat]

sponsor testimony

Just thought I'd leave the sponsor testimony here for everyone.

I’m not sure I understood that little blurb. He hunted a mountain goat tag with his crossbow to get money for the lawsuit to make them legal? Who was the idiot paying him?

 

[JM77]

I know he isn’t a dumbass. I also know Montana isn’t Wyoming and crossbows aren’t a good path for archery the way Montana manages.

In all seriousness, where a license can be used in archery and in rifle, it makes absolutely no difference in the overall scheme of things if you arrow or bolt. I have no dog in this hunt, but it boils down to tradition and the desire to keep others out of your season.

 

[Zim]

I don’t personally want any special provisions for crossbows, but one has to admire Molnar’s tenacity and dedication to the issue.

I quit applying & hunting in MT long ago, and know nothing of this Molnar. But I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess he's just another corrupt politician greased by Ravin coin. That's the pattern I have observed all over the US. Personally I hate crossguns. In 99% of the cases, they are just a gun hunter's shortcut into the long rut archery seasons. And I certainly don't "admire" greased politicians.

 

[The Hedgehog]

An “archer” gettin’r done with a real bow and gettin right in its grill.

 

[DFS]

In all seriousness, where a license can be used in archery and in rifle, it makes absolutely no difference in the overall scheme of things if you arrow or bolt. I have no dog in this hunt, but it boils down to tradition and the desire to keep others out of your season.

I don’t disagree in some sense but in Montana tags aren’t limited and the resource is hammered. Wyoming is a different animal. I would love to see traditional archery only before I see crossbows.

 

[Beignet]

I quit applying & hunting in MT long ago, and know nothing of this Molnar. But I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess he's just another corrupt politician greased by Ravin coin. That's the pattern I have observed all over the US. Personally I hate crossguns. In 99% of the cases, they are just a gun hunter's shortcut into the long rut archery seasons. And I certainly don't "admire" greased politicians.

I was being kind of facetious. As far as I know, Molnar has introduced this in every single session that he’s been in office in both chambers now.

Molnar is actually pretty rock solid on nearly every other conservation issue that HT type folks find important, and often votes against the rest of his party on these issues.

I have no idea who or what Ravin Coin is, but Molnar is a true believer on this crossbows. I surely disagree with him on a lot of his non-conservation stances and on this crossbow issue, but I think it’s disingenuous to call him “greased.”

 

[rogerthat]

In all seriousness, where a license can be used in archery and in rifle, it makes absolutely no difference in the overall scheme of things if you arrow or bolt. I have no dog in this hunt, but it boils down to tradition and the desire to keep others out of your season.

I completely disagree in the context of montana hunting. Success rates are low for the Montana tag. Increasing days hunted will increase harvest purely statistically and say what you want but the fact you don’t have to draw a crossbow would make quite a difference as well as the fact you aim it like a gun. I could kill the chit out of bull elk with a crossbow. I would be near 100% successful during archery guaranteed vs 50% that I am now. I rarely go try for a bull with a rifle so right there your increasing harvest. Lots of guys would be just like me so you take that argument and cram it

 

[JM77]

I completely disagree in the context of montana hunting. Success rates are low for the Montana tag. Increasing days hunted will increase harvest purely statistically and say what you want but the fact you don’t have to draw a crossbow would make quite a difference as well as the fact you aim it like a gun. I could kill the chit out of bull elk with a crossbow. I would be near 100% successful during archery guaranteed vs 50% that I am now. I rarely go try for a bull with a rifle so right there your increasing harvest. Lots of guys would be just like me so you take that argument and cram it

Montana, Wyoming or any other states, it makes no difference. The inclusion of the crossbow in early season does not drive up success odds. Even with the advances of compounds and crossbows, Wyoming's elk and deer archery season success remains constant. That includes general or LQ areas. You guys speak of what you think will happen, I'm telling you what does happen.

And again, if the tag is a two season tag, it really makes no difference. Until you pack one into the field and hunt with it, you're making it up as you go. Harder to carry, heavier, and much harder to hold steady without a rest.

 

[rogerthat]

Montana, Wyoming or any other states, it makes no difference. The inclusion of the crossbow in early season does not drive up success odds. Even with the advances of compounds and crossbows, Wyoming's elk and deer archery season success remains constant. That includes general or LQ areas. You guys speak of what you think will happen, I'm telling you what does happen.

And again, if the tag is a two season tag, it really makes no difference. Until you pack one into the field and hunt with it, you're making it up as you go. Harder to carry, heavier, and much harder to hold steady without a rest.

You can say whatever you want. Wyoming hunting is managed. Montana is not. That makes quite a difference. If I don’t fill archery in Wyoming the hunting is good enough I go back with a rifle and fill. Your argument holds water but in Montana on public land it does not. Here’s an example. One of many stories I have just like this and I’m not alone I assure you. .

So last years archery season I kept getting glimpses of a large seven point across the valley so I decided to get up really early and give him a spin. At first light I was on the other side of the valley on a glassing knob. Elk started to materialize in the gray light. He would bugle sparingly. I shadowed them as they made their move towards their beds. As they moved my last chance for visibility in sight I made my move sprinting towards a saddle I hoped they would arrive in. When I got there unfortunately the thermal was still down sloping. With no visibility lower, I setup on the backside hoping to somehow get lucky. Suddenly a cow came by me upslope 30 yards or less…than another…than ten more…I chuckled to myself with my luck as I had the drop and another large herd bull would be mine. I patiently waited for the herd bull to follow his cows. Suddenly a bugle rang out. Startlingly me. As I slowly turned around, I cam face to face with the bull 7 yards. My pins were on him. My bow undrawn. We locked eyes. I went for it….my bow half drawn. Well you get it. I got my bow half back, the bull bolted never to be seen again. Think that one gets away with a crossbow? That was my shot for the season. My tag went unpunched. 20 more days of elk hunting. Not another opportunity.

And I have heard the whole unwieldy bs. I carry a 14.5# rifle for coyote hunting and I walk for miles and miles. That’s unwieldy also.

 

[F250]

You can say whatever you want. Wyoming hunting is managed. Montana is not. That makes quite a difference. If I don’t fill archery in Wyoming the hunting is good enough I go back with a rifle and fill. Your argument holds water but in Montana on public land it does not. Here’s an example. One of many stories I have just like this and I’m not alone I assure you. .

So last years archery season I kept getting glimpses of a large seven point across the valley so I decided to get up really early and give him a spin. At first light I was on the other side of the valley on a glassing knob. Elk started to materialize in the gray light. He would bugle sparingly. I shadowed them as they made their move towards their beds. As they moved my last chance for visibility in sight I made my move sprinting towards a saddle I hoped they would arrive in. When I got there unfortunately the thermal was still down sloping. With no visibility lower, I setup on the backside hoping to somehow get lucky. Suddenly a cow came by me upslope 30 yards or less…than another…than ten more…I chuckled to myself with my luck as I had the drop and another large herd bull would be mine. I patiently waited for the herd bull to follow his cows. Suddenly a bugle rang out. Startlingly me. As I slowly turned around, I cam face to face with the bull 7 yards. My pins were on him. My bow undrawn. We locked eyes. I went for it….my bow half drawn. Well you get it. I got my bow half back, the bull bolted never to be seen again. Think that one gets away with a crossbow? That was my shot for the season. My tag went unpunched. 20 more days of elk hunting. Not another opportunity.

And I have heard the whole unwieldy bs. I carry a 14.5# rifle for coyote hunting and I walk for miles and miles. That’s unwieldy also.

Sorry, I didn’t intend to hit the “like” button. I suggest you try carrying a clunky, noisy, bulky, cumbersome, heavy, crossbow for a few days trying to stalk any big game animal. I think you will come away with a different perspective of how “ easy “ hunting with a crossbow is.

 

[cgasner1]

Sorry, I didn’t intend to hit the “like” button. I suggest you try carrying a clunky, noisy, bulky, cumbersome, heavy, crossbow for a few days trying to stalk any big game animal. I think you will come away with a different perspective of how “ easy “ hunting with a crossbow is.

Country I hunt in Montana I won’t be stalking anything I’ll sit in the saddle and wait for them to come by works fairly well with my bow couldn’t imagine doubling my effective range.

 

[cgasner1]

It didn't work. Buzz doesn't sound like a dumbass.

Well when you jump on one side of the forum and tell guys to piss off they will never add any more archery only tags in one state. Then jump into another and say crossbows don’t matter knowing this state offers a lot of archery only tags and it would have a huge impact in those units

 

[cgasner1]

Well when you jump on one side of the forum and tell guys to piss off they will never add any more archery only tags in one state. Then jump into another and say crossbows don’t matter knowing this state offers a lot of archery only tags and it would have a huge impact in those units, not a dumb ass maybe a politician

 

[F250]

Country I hunt in Montana I won’t be stalking anything I’ll sit in the saddle and wait for them to come by works fairly well with my bow couldn’t imagine doubling my effective range.

A crossbow hunter using common sense does not take shots twice the distance an average compound bow hunter would take. Most crossbow hinters I know keep their shots under 40 yards.

 

[cgasner1]

A crossbow hunter using common sense does not take shots twice the distance an average compound bow hunter would take. Most crossbow hinters I know keep their shots under 40 yards.

And so do most archers

 

[BuzzH]

Well when you jump on one side of the forum and tell guys to piss off they will never add any more archery only tags in one state. Then jump into another and say crossbows don’t matter knowing this state offers a lot of archery only tags and it would have a huge impact in those units

Right, no reason to add type 9s here when a person can hunt both seasons with one tag. Would it make sense to issue a shit-ton of archery only tags in Montana? Maybe add another 17,000 archery only NR tags...that would fix things right up.

 

[BuzzH]

And so do most archers

Hilarious.

 

[cgasner1]

Right, no reason to add type 9s here when a person can hunt both seasons with one tag. Would it make sense to issue a shit-ton of archery only tags in Montana? Maybe add another 17,000 archery only NR tags...that would fix things right up.

I can’t wait till the day comes people get tired of all this trash and we have to stop playing defense on bullchit bills like this and the state actually puts in a true management plan.

 

[rogerthat]

Sorry, I didn’t intend to hit the “like” button. I suggest you try carrying a clunky, noisy, bulky, cumbersome, heavy, crossbow for a few days trying to stalk any big game animal. I think you will come away with a different perspective of how “ easy “ hunting with a crossbow is.

No problem I will prove it to you when this passes. I just so happened to hurt my shoulder in a skiing accident this year.

 

[rogerthat]

A crossbow hunter using common sense does not take shots twice the distance an average compound bow hunter would take. Most crossbow hinters I know keep their shots under 40 yards.

Most of my bulls have been shot at 15