Salary & benefit negotiations

[Lostinthewoods]

Id take the 12k, buy some sp500 and/or bitcoin and hunt a damn sheep someday. If you take it out now - earmark it for hunting - and then invest it - your wife cant be too mad cause you spent that money on a hunt years ago.

Just me and my newer strategy

This is honestly where I’m leaning towards now. My original plan was to just take 6 weeks off to go hunt.

However a $12K swing is always nice and it’s a chance where I can learn more of the job to advance the overall career.

Basically it sounds like a small “sacrifice” to propel quality of life for the long run.
The truth is I’m basically just cutting out western hunts. If I go this route I can still hit Kentucky, Missouri, Oklahoma, and Kansas. I think I’ll be ok.

Sometimes you have not if you ask not. It took me years of dealing with companies and changing positions to learn. Once moved jobs, took a .40 pay cut. Why? I sucked at valuing myself.

That company sold out, hr from new company wanted to give me 2 weeks vacation, I said I want 3, he said I can't no else got 3, I said did anyone else ask you? He said no then gave me 3.

Same company wants me to run office now as manager. Wants to give 2 dollar raise, I say not enough but a 4th week vacation could help that number. They think and say ok. I still turn the Job down. They come back and say 5 dollars and the extra week. Ok.

They do annual cost of living raises, I get a 3% raise, other guys got 4%, I'm their top performer, so gotta go raise the question to the manager about why. Ends up giving me the extra percent. Guess they thought guys didn't talk to eachother.

Eventually fed up go to a different company, same per hourr, but better perks like all travel time paid and new company knows I have 4 weeks but does up to 5, I say I want a hard date on 5, so 1yr out I'll be up to a 5th week.

Lots of little things ad up. You gotta go to bat for yourself. If you know you can do the job negotiate strongly for yourself. And let them chase you some and get the negotiations done first. It's easier to negotiate when they still want you and your not there once your hired they don't have much incentive to increase anything.

Im no expert. Just my own experiences.

And yes every Job should be giving a cost of living raise when "people" are driving up costs/inflation. Cost of living going up 10% and you not getting a raise is like you taking a pay cut.

I always appreciate personal experiences, so thank you very much for sharing yours.
It’s truly helpful!

The money difference is too significant to ignore but in reality I don’t think taking option 1 is going to improve your negotiating position that much.

I’m probably overthinking it and I am very aware I’m not the one who knows, but here is what my brain is doing.

Let’s use fake numbers.
Let’s say the position range is 60-85K.

Right now if they offered me the job - cold - and give me 70K I’d probably take it.

If I go work there for 4-6 months, show how I adapt, validate my resume with my experience and qualifications, etc.
now I feel like I have a better shot getting towards the top end of that salary range.

Which again is partially why I think the longer intern time and less hunting time is smart.

The 12K swing and my perceived extra negotiating room could propel quality of life in the long run.

 

[brymoore]

“The longer I intern the more negotiating power I may have?”

I don’t think so. I’d recommend having your employment situation settled before internship. Actually, I’d recommend not to intern unless you want to feel out the company. Internships give the company a test run to see if you fit the organization and have the skill sets they need. I have seen interns not offered jobs but haven’t seen the situation where the intern earned a higher salary than what was initially discussed.

We’re all replaceable.

* Note: I’m talking about average people. I don’t know your skill set.

 

[Sheltowee]

“The longer I intern the more negotiating power I may have?”

I don’t think so. I’d recommend having your employment situation settled before internship. Actually, I’d recommend not to intern unless you want to feel out the company. Internships give the company a test run to see if you fit the organization and have the skill sets they need. I have seen interns not offered jobs but haven’t seen the situation where the intern earned a higher salary than what was initially discussed.

We’re all replaceable.

* Note: I’m talking about average people. I don’t know your skill set.

+1 to this. Too many employers take the "why buy the cow when I get the milk for free" approach with interns.

 

[Addicting]

Leaving the military was tough. But I would take all the terminal leave I could and double dip. I would not intern at all because the green weenie will strike at any time and you can loose out. I would rather my first day at the new place be paid.

You need to focus on your VA disability now. I cannot stress that enough. Read forums on conditions, get an advocate, and file before you leave the service.

 

[Forkyfinder]

This is honestly where I’m leaning towards now. My original plan was to just take 6 weeks off to go hunt.

However a $12K swing is always nice and it’s a chance where I can learn more of the job to advance the overall career.

Basically it sounds like a small “sacrifice” to propel quality of life for the long run.
The truth is I’m basically just cutting out western hunts. If I go this route I can still hit Kentucky, Missouri, Oklahoma, and Kansas. I think I’ll be ok.




I always appreciate personal experiences, so thank you very much for sharing yours.
It’s truly helpful!



I’m probably overthinking it and I am very aware I’m not the one who knows, but here is what my brain is doing.

Let’s use fake numbers.
Let’s say the position range is 60-85K.

Right now if they offered me the job - cold - and give me 70K I’d probably take it.

If I go work there for 4-6 months, show how I adapt, validate my resume with my experience and qualifications, etc.
now I feel like I have a better shot getting towards the top end of that salary range.

Which again is partially why I think the longer intern time and less hunting time is smart.

The 12K swing and my perceived extra negotiating room could propel quality of life in the long run.

No no - i mean invest the 12k and when its 50k in 15 years (literally 10% growth, so you can probably go in sooner time), say "sorry honey im going to Alaska and shooting whatever im alllowed - you agreed to let me spend that 12k on hunting in 2025"

 

[Johnny Bravo]

Did they even offer you a job?
Did they say you can even get an internship?
If you intern they might realize they hate you or don’t need you.
No you have no more power, they may realize again you are over paid and they don’t need you.
Time off is worth way more than money to me, but I’m not exactly poor.
You have hunted NM enough, get out and let someone else hunt ! Lol

 

[Treeshark]

@Lostinthewoods, I may have missed something here but where did the whole internship thing pop up?

Can you just skip that altogether and just begin working like most employment arrangements?

 

[Lostinthewoods]

“The longer I intern the more negotiating power I may have?”

I don’t think so. I’d recommend having your employment situation settled before internship. Actually, I’d recommend not to intern unless you want to feel out the company. Internships give the company a test run to see if you fit the organization and have the skill sets they need. I have seen interns not offered jobs but haven’t seen the situation where the intern earned a higher salary than what was initially discussed.

We’re all replaceable.

* Note: I’m talking about average people. I don’t know your skill set.

+1 to this. Too many employers take the "why buy the cow when I get the milk for free" approach with interns.

Both of you just ruined my mojo, but I mean that only in the best way possible!
That’s why I made this thread to hear different advice, experience, and opinions.
This whole time I’ve been looking at it in my typical optimistic approach, but you are both right. I could show up, intern, and the opposite result could happen.

Im the confident in my abilities, but that doesn’t mean squat if I don’t sync with the team.

I was trying to view it as an opportunity to learn stuff faster so I can show my worth quicker. I think I’m just really antsy to start phase 2 of life and get my next job.

Bottom line. You pumped the brakes on this and it was needed. Cheers.

Leaving the military was tough. But I would take all the terminal leave I could and double dip. I would not intern at all because the green weenie will strike at any time and you can loose out. I would rather my first day at the new place be paid.

You need to focus on your VA disability now. I cannot stress that enough. Read forums on conditions, get an advocate, and file before you leave the service.

I’m trying to get that all in order so I can submit everything within my BDD window. I’ve not voiced it because of all the jokers on this site, but interested to see if VA processes holds their timelines or not. With all my peers and subordinates who retired in the last 2 years, 90% received their rating within the first 30 days or separation as long as they hit their BDD window. So that’s my goal!
It’s a weird process to navigate for sure…..

No no - i mean invest the 12k and when its 50k in 15 years (literally 10% growth, so you can probably go in sooner time), say "sorry honey im going to Alaska and shooting whatever im alllowed - you agreed to let me spend that 12k on hunting in 2025"

I like this!

Did they even offer you a job?
Did they say you can even get an internship?
If you intern they might realize they hate you or don’t need you.
No you have no more power, they may realize again you are over paid and they don’t need you.
Time off is worth way more than money to me, but I’m not exactly poor.
You have hunted NM enough, get out and let someone else hunt ! Lol

This is what I was emailed last week after my interview.
Officially I can’t say they offered me the job, it’s just all information I’m getting from my network inside.
The rest of the feedback I appreciate as always.

How about this, let me have one last rock solid draw year in NM and then I’ll send you my lucky horseshoe!

 

[Lostinthewoods]

@Lostinthewoods, I may have missed something here but where did the whole internship thing pop up?

Can you just skip that altogether and just begin working like most employment arrangements?

Yes I can.

The internship is just a program they offer us to help transition out.
This has helped increase job placement post military and made some people more “marketable”.


The consensus seems pretty strong to drop the internship idea and just roll in fresh.

 

[Treeshark]

The consensus seems pretty strong to drop the internship idea and just roll in fresh.

I don’t have enough info to recommend anything, but my worry is that the internship thing might be viewed as kind of a pain in the ass for your future employer and/or diminish your negotiating power. At the very least, it seems to add a lot of complexity to your life over the next several months. It doesn’t seem like you need it to get this particular position.

Rooting for you dude

 

[Johnny Bravo]

Both of you just ruined my mojo, but I mean that only in the best way possible!
That’s why I made this thread to hear different advice, experience, and opinions.
This whole time I’ve been looking at it in my typical optimistic approach, but you are both right. I could show up, intern, and the opposite result could happen.

Im the confident in my abilities, but that doesn’t mean squat if I don’t sync with the team.

I was trying to view it as an opportunity to learn stuff faster so I can show my worth quicker. I think I’m just really antsy to start phase 2 of life and get my next job.

Bottom line. You pumped the brakes on this and it was needed. Cheers.


I’m trying to get that all in order so I can submit everything within my BDD window. I’ve not voiced it because of all the jokers on this site, but interested to see if VA processes holds their timelines or not. With all my peers and subordinates who retired in the last 2 years, 90% received their rating within the first 30 days or separation as long as they hit their BDD window. So that’s my goal!
It’s a weird process to navigate for sure…..

I like this!



View attachment 361878

This is what I was emailed last week after my interview.
Officially I can’t say they offered me the job, it’s just all information I’m getting from my network inside.
The rest of the feedback I appreciate as always.

How about this, let me have one last rock solid draw year in NM and then I’ll send you my lucky horseshoe!

Ah, never saw this in the thread so I thought It was all a guess or something. I still would not do it, but that’s just me. I would only take an actual job offer. I wish you the best in the draws for NM and the job offer.

 

[Treeshark]

This whole time I’ve been looking at it in my typical optimistic approach

I always like working with people with a bias towards optimism- I bet it will continue to serve you well.

Don’t forget thought- your employer is just using you: at the end of the day, they hope (demand) that you produce more value than they pay out to you. It’s fair though, because you’re using them right back for a paycheck.

I know that sounds fatalistic, but it’s actually healthy if you look at it that way in my opinion.

 

[Bob-WY]

Internship gets you experience. Many companies it's are moving to a paid internship with an end date as a trial. It gives them an easy out if you won't work out.

Careful on double dip. Agai st the rules in some places.

I ternship wouldn't stop me if I wanted the job.

 

[thebestusernamesaretaken]

The first job I took after leaving the Marines was a manufacturing job with a fortune 500 company. Those types of companies have a bracket (salary range or pay scale), that they will pay for that job, and will likely tell you what it is if asked.

In many cases the top of the pay range would be reserved for people who has had a lot of specific experience in that field or if the current local market demands it. An example in your case may be that of small towns might find it difficult to find the specific type of talent/needs that the company is looking for. They understand that they may have to pay more to attract the right type of person. That's not to say that the town might not have talent available, but the people in the town may have a culture that the company wants to change.

For example and In my case, the organization that I started with had obscene amount of talent available to them. I knew nothing of which I was hired to do and everyone knew it, including my direct reports. What I did have was the ability to learn without the local area or company culture weighing me down. That was what the company really wanted. The hired a few of us military types and put each of us in charge of a different department. It was ridiculous because all we knew was how to manage people but the complexity of the operation needed someone to know what they were doing. Together we learned about lean manufacturing and changed that company from the Standard American Manufacturing process to a lean manufacturing. Military folks didn't resist the training where someone else with 30 years of experience was. We were able to solve the problem by will power and education where the others have failed. Well that and the fact that Veterans were considered a DEI hire.

I hate to say this but unless you did something in the military that transitions perfectly with the civilian world, it's likely that you will be overwhelmed trying to learn their ways, the way that they learn (which will be chaotic). They will most likely not have a qualified trainer to teach you everything you need to know. They may have a trainer, but that person will likely be a shit bird that noone wants in their dept. You will be the underdog who knows nothing and would have to learn everything. Your Military background can help you learn quicker than most because you are nothing if not trainable. That's a real skillset folks struggle with out here. Almost everyone you've spent time with (even that guy - you know who, every unit has one or two of them), was trainable to do something. Military weeded out those untrainable folks out quick. Trainability and adaptability will be your superpower.

But, be careful not to overstate your value going into an environment who values experience on the job. You will get respect, accolades and promotions when you learn how they do it, do it faster, and then do it better.

If this company is a mature organization, they likely have a standard salary range, bonus structure (if any), Holidays' and PTO as well.

The best type of place to negotiate with are usually organizations that haven't established those type of HR related policies yet, are usually fast moving startups or family owned business. However those types of places tend to be ripe with nepotism and it could eventually become a problem.

It sounds like you may be talking to someone who has established policies but may be afraid to loose you so they are only soft balling salary with you. It's best to get into it before you fall in love only to find out halfway to the altar that you can't afford each other.

Talking about salary is scary and it's important because will impact all the raises and promotions that follow. But it's not a good deal unless both parties feel like they are winners. Sometimes we find that a person may be absolutely worth whatever they are asking for, but the position is not. When I come across one of those folks I keep that person on the short list for future opportunities that may be a more suitable fit for both of us. It's not personal, it's not about you, it's only about what a position is worth for that company in that area. If they like you and want you to join their team but reject your salary proposal, it's because they can't afford to pay it for that job. I would just ask, what kind of salary range would this position normally pay. That's your starting point and puts the pressure on them.

Most hiring managers are as afraid of this part of the process as you are. You will see them fluff up, deepen their voices, sit up strater and confidently tell you blah blah blah. The guy that leads with it, has done this before or is trying to get it out of the way.

My company will even post the salary range in the job advertising because a lot of folks has wasted a lot of time messing around with this type of thing. No need to dance when it's not even a viable thing for either of us.