Ryan Busse. Anyone?

[FI460]

Define some. Specifically.

That's for SCOTUS to define, not some dudes on the internet.

As I recall Heller found that a complete ban on handguns is unconstitutional. I think the ruling also said that many regulations like background checks and safe storage laws would likely be permissible.

 

[hossblur]

That's for SCOTUS to define, not some dudes on the internet.

As I recall Heller found that a complete ban on handguns is unconstitutional. I think the ruling also said that many regulations like background checks and safe storage laws would likely be permissible.

So Gifford's supports Heller? Would LOVE to see that in writing

 

[Beignet]

I'm not here advocating for any restrictions. My point is that supporting some restrictions doesn't make someone an enemy of the Second Amendment. Scalia said that there could obviously be limitations on the amendment. Reagan was against open carry. Neither was anti-2A.

Didn’t Reagan’s opposition to open carry stem from his time as governor of CA when Black Panthers asserted their open carry rights? Curious how pro carry say, TX or MT’s attorney generals would be if folks showed up armed to intimidate protestors at an abortion clinic or some other equally divisive thing? Where do we end up when both sides start asserting their open carry rights? Are shootouts going to replace shouting matches as the new norm?

 

[hossblur]

The Second Amendment is absolutely not absolute, and if someone were in favor of moderate firearm restrictions legislation it wouldn't mean they don't support the second amendment.

Absolutism is a false dichotomy.

"Moderate"

Another buzz word without definition

 

[FI460]

"Moderate"

Another buzz word without definition

Here ya go:

Moderate

For those who think it's easier to annoy you than to Google 'Moderate' themselves.

letmegooglethat.com

 

[hossblur]

Here ya go:

Moderate

For those who think it's easier to annoy you than to Google 'Moderate' themselves.

letmegooglethat.com

I didn't ask Google, I asked YOU.

SPECIFICALLY define moderate gun control.

Feel free to include SPECIFIC guns your including.

 

[rideold]

The definition of "gun culture" is probably as vague as 2A. Not trying to pick a fight but our leaders back in the day didn't exactly leave us with a whole lot of detail or definitions.

Just as there is an ask to define "gun culture" one could also ask for many of the terms in 2A to be defined as well.....which is a pretty big ask since getting agreement seems to be the crux of our society these days. As we all know there are exhaustive debates/writings going back to the original papers from the late 1700s that do not explicitly define things like "arms" etc. I'm all for the right to own and use a firearm. Where we or the legislature or another organized group draw the line on what is/should/could be owned and used will be a debate that will never end.

I think that Busse's book has opened a lot of these discussions in many venues which any reasonable person will welcome. If we aren't talking then we're just putting our heads where the sun don't shine.

 

[Beignet]

I didn't ask Google, I asked YOU.

SPECIFICALLY define moderate gun control.

Feel free to include SPECIFIC guns your including.

I’ve posted this someplace on HT before, but thought this guy’s take on “gun control” seems reasonable.

A Gun Nut’s Guide to Gun Control That Works

 

[hossblur]

The definition of "gun culture" is probably as vague as 2A. Not trying to pick a fight but our leaders back in the day didn't exactly leave us with a whole lot of detail or definitions.

Just as there is an ask to define "gun culture" one could also ask for many of the terms in 2A to be defined as well.....which is a pretty big ask since getting agreement seems to be the crux of our society these days. As we all know there are exhaustive debates/writings going back to the original papers from the late 1700s that do not explicitly define things like "arms" etc. I'm all for the right to own and use a firearm. Where we or the legislature or another organized group draw the line on what is/should/could be owned and used will be a debate that will never end.

I think that Busse's book has opened a lot of these discussions in many venues which any reasonable person will welcome. If we aren't talking then we're just putting our heads where the sun don't shine.

See, we don't disagree.

Which is why guys like Busse and a few others in here I keep saying BE SPECIFIC.

It's much to easy to say "moderate", "common sense", "gun culture".

The devil, as always, is in the details.

An example.

According to the previous assault weapons ban proposed by Dems, my son's break down, 10/22 would be banned. His brothers non break down 10/22, legal. But, somehow this is considered "common sense" gun laws.

 

[hossblur]

Didn’t Reagan’s opposition to open carry stem from his time as governor of CA when Black Panthers asserted their open carry rights? Curious how pro carry say, TX or MT’s attorney generals would be if folks showed up armed to intimidate protestors at an abortion clinic or some other equally divisive thing? Where do we end up when both sides start asserting their open carry rights? Are shootouts going to replace shouting matches as the new norm?

Is that happening now with both sides conceal carrying?

 

[Gerald Martin]

Yup. You better come get my AR, some dude I don't know, intimidated Ryan Busse.

But then, I'll need your truck, I had a friend get killed by a truck T boning him.

Sounds logical

Wins every battle. Doesn’t realize he is losing the war because his logic won’t let him accept that optics will be the deciding factor at the ballot box.

Sorry that Ryan has “intimidated”you by being loud about the need for gun owners to police themselves and their image.

Most folks determined that no gubmint is ever going to infringe their 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms have no problems infringing on others beyond how the Constitution explicitly limits. Everyone seems to agree that it’s perfectly reasonable a convicted felon who has committed a violent crime should never be allowed to own a firearm. Now, I am no Constitutional scholar but my reading of the Constitution doesn’t give directions that allows for that infringement.

I am perfectly safe with a ballistic missile. Why shouldn’t I be allowed to have one?

 

[Beignet]

Is that happening now with both sides conceal carrying?

Not sure what data sets are out there relating to carrying concealed weapons and protocols *political* affiliation or standpoints on divisive topics.

Anyway, I admit that I’ve contributed to detailing the thread by talking about gun control. I don’t think Busse’s book is about gun control, but more about the marketing that seems to put a lot of civilians on war footing.

As I stated before, I haven’t read the book yet. The library is pretty backed up on holds, so I’m going to purchase it tomorrow (hope that’s at least a beer on me, Mr. Busse).

Then I’ll try to contribute more to talking about the substance of the book than just the “Lemme tell ya what I think…”

 

[Beignet]

I am perfectly safe with a ballistic missile. Why shouldn’t I be allowed to have one?

I’d really like to shoot a hellfire missile just once. They’re legal in the shoulder seasons this year, right?

 

[hossblur]

Wins every battle. Doesn’t realize he is losing the war because his logic won’t let him accept that optics will be the deciding factor at the ballot box.

Sorry that Ryan has “intimated” you by being loud about the need for gun owners to police themselves and their image.

Most folks determined that no gubmint is ever going to infringe their 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms have no problems infringing on others beyond how the Constitution explicitly limits. Everyone seems to agree that it’s perfectly reasonable a convicted felon who has committed a violent crime should never be allowed to own a firearm. Now, I am no Constitutional scholar but my reading of the Constitution doesn’t give directions that allows for that infringement.

I am perfectly safe with a ballistic missile. Why shouldn’t I be allowed to have one?

Ah, there it is, that argument.

Which, if you read, you already know that DURING the lives of the fellas who wrote the 2A, privateers had cannons. You know, the equivalent to the missles at it's time. They also had ships, with multiple cannons, what we call destroyers now.

Privateers. Meaning NOT GOVERNMENT NOR MILITARY.

Kinda seems like the folks who wrote the law, if they were against such things, would have said so. But that's my version of common sense.

I'm not a convicted felon. Why should I not be allowed to own a semi auto .223. But I can own a Ruger Predator, in ,.223. Which, uses the same mags as my AR.

Is it because it's green, not black?

Or because some gang banger in Chicago shot up another gang banger on another street? So I as a guy without a speeding ticket, must give up my AR?

My guess, you could own a a stealth fighter, Abrams Tank, and warship, but I'd never have to worry about it.

Yup, it's a culture problem, just not a "gun culture" one.

 

[hossblur]

Not sure what data sets are out there relating to carrying concealed weapons and protocols affiliation or standpoints on divisive topics.

Anyway, I admit that I’ve contributed to detailing the thread by talking about gun control. I don’t think Busse’s book is about gun control, but more about the marketing that seems to put a lot of civilians on war footing.

As I stated before, I haven’t read the book yet. The library is pretty backed up on holds, so I’m going to purchase it tomorrow (hope that’s at least a beer on me, Mr. Busse).

Then I’ll try to contribute more to talking about the substance of the book than just the “Lemme tell ya what I think…”

The Gifford's group is, which was my point to begin with

 

[Beignet]

The Gifford's group is, which was my point to begin with

Is what?

 

[hossblur]

Is what?

Pro gun control. In fact pro gun confiscation. In fact, pro total gun banning.

That's who's he's aligned with.

 

[FI460]

Pro gun control. In fact pro gun confiscation. In fact, pro total gun banning.

That's who's he's aligned with.

Damn. Sounds an awful lot like the bogeyman.

Good thing we have a 2nd Amendment.

 

[hossblur]

I’d really like to shoot a hellfire missile just once. They’re legal in the shoulder seasons this year, right?

In Utah. But we allow pretty much everything if you can scratch the check

 

[hossblur]

Big props to Randy.

It's cool having a site where we can vigorously disagree, and hopefully learn things. I have.

Been a great discussion. Hopefully I added something mirroring intelligence