Ryan Busse. Anyone?

[hossblur]

I'm not really sure what your point is here.

Are you asserting that his job history disqualifies him from discussing these things? Or has your perception of hypocrisy launched you on a crusade to discredit his arguments?

Does teaming with the Gifford's group not kinda do that anyway?

I don't have a crusade. And my inbox reminded me of the unwritten rules of HT. It was of no shock to me the response.

Does his job history disqualify him? Which job? Gun salesman? Political hack? Consultant to among others, anti gun groups? Which job? And, yup, keyword is JOB. When I criticize the NRA, or Gifford's, ain't a check coming my way, either way.
Is that true of him? Is it of you?

I've heard Randy talk several times about how he gets the freedom to be an equal opportunity offender, because he doesn't make a living from his hunting media. I agree with him. It's why he get a ton of cred from me, and I'll assume the rest of you.

Not many people not named Jesus, go against their own self interest.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Well, looks like I’ve created a bit of a stir. First, I am not anti gun. Never have been. Don’t even know how many I own. My boys regularly run out of ammo just like all of the rest of you. Second I am not calling for bans or any of the myriad other stuff that has been asserted.

The book is the truth of my life and that of my family, intertwined with the truth of the change in our country. It’s all supported by verifiable references and footnotes. It’s not a policy treatise. I hate those sort of books and did not want to write one.

If you have read the book, I will field any and all questions. (Randy and Gerald and both Bens and many of the rest of you know I won’t shy from honest thoughtful discussion) If you have not read it, then I suggest you should before forming opinions. I’d bet the its is not what you think it is.

As a teaser….I’ll say that it is not in any of our best interests to have a culture we care about be hikacked by politcal forces that then convince us to be distracted by made up conspiracies and culture wars. It’s not in our best interests to look away from armed intimidation. It’s not in our interests to allow police state enforcment of dissent. It not in our best interests to forget responsibility.

No healthy entity or idea exists if it demands groupthink and given the importance of guns in our nation/culture I think this topic deserves some real thought and consideration.

You made a comment on The Daily Show about possible fixes.

1. Close the gun show loop hole- agree
2. No open carry, political intimidation

Would you mind unpacking this second point, what exactly do you have in mind.

 

[Jwill]

Are there places that the "gun show loophole" actually exists @RyanBusse ? In VA buying a gun at a gun show you have to go through the same background check as you do at Sportsmans Warehouse. Here folks that say that actually mean sales between individuals/private parties, which I'm not sure how I feel about that being regulated.

 

[mtmuley]

Are there places that the "gun show loophole" actually exists? In VA buying a gun at a gun show you have to go through the same background check as you do at Sportsmans Warehouse. Here folks that say that actually mean sales between individuals/private parties, which I'm not sure how I feel about that being regulated.

Trying to end the "gun show loophole" won't do a damn thing. mtmuley

 

[4ohSick]

Does teaming with the Gifford's group not kinda do that anyway?

I don't have a crusade. And my inbox reminded me of the unwritten rules of HT. It was of no shock to me the response.

Does his job history disqualify him? Which job? Gun salesman? Political hack? Consultant to among others, anti gun groups? Which job? And, yup, keyword is JOB. When I criticize the NRA, or Gifford's, ain't a check coming my way, either way.
Is that true of him? Is it of you?

I've heard Randy talk several times about how he gets the freedom to be an equal opportunity offender, because he doesn't make a living from his hunting media. I agree with him. It's why he get a ton of cred from me, and I'll assume the rest of you.

Not many people not named Jesus, go against their own self interest.

Against my better judgement, I'm going to throw out one more response. Randy may not make a living from his hunting media, but he absolutely benefits from his sponsors - does that mean he's unqualified to talk about the quality of MR or Gerber? Absolutely not.

I think it's not out of line to assume Ryan Busse has made enough money in his career at Kimber to live a comfortable life, and his experience would afford him the opportunity to continue to make a living at any number of firearm companies. He has decided the advocacy matters more to him, and the sad truth is that one person can't make much of a difference, so partnering with a national organization makes sense. You may think that self-publishing his book would be the noble thing, but if he actually wants to affect change in the country, he needs a bigger footprint.

 

[Irrelevant]

You made a comment on The Daily Show about possible fixes.

1. Close the gun show loop hole- agree
2. No open carry, political intimidation

Would you mind unpacking this second point, what exactly do you have in mind.

Be cautious of #1, it sounds great, but in reality it doesn't pan out the way you might wish it would. WA attempted to "close the loop" and the result is that I can no longer lend a gun to a anyone, be them a close friend, coworker, or family member to go hunting without going down and dropping $40-60 on a background check and transfer paperwork. It severely hinders mentoring.

 

[hossblur]

I guess I stand corrected. All of us in "gun culture" will open our minds to the possibility of national registration, and laws against private transfers, because the Giffords org, and I'm sure others now, that Busse is consulting for, villainize us.

Just like I'll not eat a steak tonight because PETA yells at me.

Props to Busse, he must be a good guy personally, his friends are sticking up for him, which is admirable.

 

[JLS]

Interesting. You have the opportunity to engage directly with Ryan and ask all the questions you want. Instead, you continue your rant from the pulpit.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I guess I stand corrected. All of us in "gun culture" will open our minds to the possibility of national registration, and laws against private transfers, because the Giffords org, and I'm sure others now, that Busse is consulting for, villainize us.

Just like I'll not eat a steak tonight because PETA yells at me.

Props to Busse, he must be a good guy personally, his friends are sticking up for him, which is admirable.

Looks like you have it all figured out. Kudos to you.

 

[mottlet]

Be cautious of #1, it sounds great, but in reality it doesn't pan out the way you might wish it would. WA attempted to "close the loop" and the result is that I can no longer lend a gun to a anyone, be them a close friend, coworker, or family member to go hunting without going down and dropping $40-60 on a background check and transfer paperwork. It severely hinders mentoring.

That's why there's something to be said for staying off the sidelines. Politicians can write nuance into a background checks bill; I've seen em do it.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I guess I stand corrected. All of us in "gun culture" will open our minds to the possibility of national registration, and laws against private transfers, because the Giffords org, and I'm sure others now, that Busse is consulting for, villainize us.

Just like I'll not eat a steak tonight because PETA yells at me.

Props to Busse, he must be a good guy personally, his friends are sticking up for him, which is admirable.

National registration just isn't practical, I'd say almost impossible.

1. ~about the same number of gun owners as passport owners... possibly more gun owners
2. 120MM more guns then cars
3. Guns are bought and sold at a higher rate than cars
4. Guns have never had a detailed registry
5. DMVs are supported by licensing and registration fees, cars cost what 30k+ new and I'm taking a WAGS have an average aggregate value of ~$8,000 meaning a 1% fee =$80. What is the average value of a firearm WAG $300 you aren't going to charge $80 registration fee per gun. Meaning the system would be a massive tax drain, incapable of paying for itself.

These problems are playing out right now, for instance MA has had to change licensing rules repeatedly to deal with system failures. License renewal from 1 year to 5 years due to volume, removing/ relaxing the interview requirement. Moving from all gun registration to new guns, now mostly hand guns and high capacity. These changes aren't NRA etc lobbying driven they are just due to the impractically of the administration task.

Point being, even if we all decided that a national registry + gun licenses was the way to move forward I'm not sure if we could make it happen. I'm comparing it to the DMV and Passport office because those are comparable "licensing systems" and look how they work.

That's not even mentioning trying to effectively link them to criminal or health records. Right now it's basically impossible for a MD in NH to transfer a patient to MA and have their records electronically follow them, you think mental health gun records are going to happen...

At this point I'm more interested in what we can do to change the culture, I was interested in what @RyanBusse said about the NRA historically not allowing tactical products at trade shows.

 

[brocksw]

National registration just isn't practical, I'd say almost impossible.

1. ~about the same number of gun owners as passport owners... possibly more gun owners
2. 120MM more guns then cars
3. Guns are bought and sold at a higher rate than cars
4. Guns have never had a detailed registry
5. DMVs are supported by licensing and registration fees, cars cost what 30k+ new and I'm taking a WAGS have an average aggregate value of ~$8,000 meaning. So a 1% fee =$80. What is the average value of a firearm WAG $300 you aren't going to charge $80 registration fee per gun. Meaning the system would be a massive tax drain, incapable of paying for itself.

These problems are playing out right now, for instance MA has had to change licensing rules repeatedly to deal with system failures. License renewal from 1 year to 5 years due to volume, removing/ relaxing the interview requirement. Moving from all gun registration to new guns, now mostly hand guns and high capacity. These changes aren't NRA etc lobbying driven they are just due to the impractically of the administration task.

Point being, even if we all decided that a national registry + gun licenses was the way to move forward I'm not sure if we could make it happen. I'm comparing it to the DMV and Passport office because those are comparable "licensing systems" and look how they work.

That's not even mentioning trying to effectively link them to criminal or health records. Right now it's basically impossible for a MD in NH to transfer a patient to MA and have their records electronically follow them, you think mental health gun records are going to happen...

At this point I'm more interested in what we can do to change the culture, I was interested in what @RyanBusse said about the NRA historically not allowing tactical products at trade shows.

Not to mention, I don't have serial numbers because I lost all my guns in a boating accident.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

I believe a healthy level of skepticism of a persons motives is overall a good thing. I see that as what hoss is showing. Money motivates every one of us. Some more than others. Reaching a certain level of financial comfort has the ability to influence a persons views. To wonder aloud that it may be a factor is not out of bounds by any means.

Its also completely possible that a person changes their position as the picture changes around them. For some of us the narrative of gun control is static for some its fluid. There will always be some who shout "pry it from my cold dead hands" and others that the sight of a kindergarten full of murdered children will cause them to change their stance.

Not sure reading a person book or even chatting with them through SM will give you an accurate measure of a persons true motivations. A person actions, in particular the sacrifices they have made are far more telling, IMO.

Personally, I love the opinions of the contrarians more than anything, particularly on this website. Hoss fills this role very well.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Not to mention, I don't have serial numbers because I lost all my guns in a boating accident.

I have a couple of my great grandfathers guns that are pre serial numbers.

 

[JLS]

Its also completely possible that a person changes their position as the picture changes around them.

It’s also entirely possible for a persons views to change drastically over the course of a career. I’ve certainly experienced this.

To say someone can’t be trusted because of the field they work in is simply disingenuous. Some of us have walked a tightrope for years of advocating change within our scope of employment.

 

[hossblur]

National registration just isn't practical, I'd say almost impossible.

1. ~about the same number of gun owners as passport owners... possibly more gun owners
2. 120MM more guns then cars
3. Guns are bought and sold at a higher rate than cars
4. Guns have never had a detailed registry
5. DMVs are supported by licensing and registration fees, cars cost what 30k+ new and I'm taking a WAGS have an average aggregate value of ~$8,000 meaning. So a 1% fee =$80. What is the average value of a firearm WAG $300 you aren't going to charge $80 registration fee per gun. Meaning the system would be a massive tax drain, incapable of paying for itself.

These problems are playing out right now, for instance MA has had to change licensing rules repeatedly to deal with system failures. License renewal from 1 year to 5 years due to volume, removing/ relaxing the interview requirement. Moving from all gun registration to new guns, now mostly hand guns and high capacity. These changes aren't NRA etc lobbying driven they are just due to the impractically of the administration task.

Point being, even if we all decided that a national registry + gun licenses was the way to move forward I'm not sure if we could make it happen. I'm comparing it to the DMV and Passport office because those are comparable "licensing systems" and look how they work.

That's not even mentioning trying to effectively link them to criminal or health records. Right now it's basically impossible for a MD in NH to transfer a patient to MA and have their records electronically follow them, you think mental health gun records are going to happen...

At this point I'm more interested in what we can do to change the culture, I was interested in what @RyanBusse said about the NRA historically not allowing tactical products at trade shows.

Which came first the chicken or the egg?

Ski resorts didn't allow snowboarding at one time as well.

I listened to Ben Shapiro once say he has an AR.

Mainly because the government told him he shouldn't.

But now, 5 pages in you finally got to what drew my attention with the book.

Gun culture. What is it? The way Gifford's, and so by association, Busse defines it, is a best a negative.

Its a buzzword used by the antigun crowd to put all gun owners in the Ted Nugent camp.

We, as hunters, part of that gun culture, also benefit greatly by the "wanna be warriors". Pittman Robertson is majority funded by high volume shooters. The explosion in popularity of AR, and "high capacity" platforms has increased G&F funding greatly.

I do think their is a Blindspot among folks who live in Mont, or Utah for that matter. We get the luxury of supporting left leaning politics, because in the end we arent suject to the results.

My wife has employees all over the country, and world.

During the summer of love, one of her young, single female employees spent 3weeks literally locked inside her apartment, as the riots looted, assaulted, and burned her street, and surrounding neighborhood. She was terrified, to the point that my wife asked if I'd go get her and bring her back to Utah.

The fear mongering that the NRA admittedly has spread, as we watched cities burn, and violent crime explode, are no longer so far fetched. There is a reason new gun ownership exploded, and it has nothing to do with the NRA, or "gun culture", and had everything to do with another cultural problem.

It's easy to sit in Kalispell, or Bozeman, or Ogden and talk about this issue. But I did notice, during the riots in Minn, it wasn't store owners protecting their shops with Browning Citoris, or Ruger Vaqueros.

If the Gifford's folks had their way, it would be clubs and sticks.

But I'm open minded.

Busse apparently reads these forums.

Let's hear his definition of "gun culture"

 

[Deleted member 18333]

It’s also entirely possible for a persons views to change drastically over the course of a career. I’ve certainly experienced this.

To say someone can’t be trusted because of the field they work in is simply disingenuous. Some of us have walked a tightrope for years of advocating change within our scope of employment.

Completely agree.

I am not sure anyone is saying he can't be trusted. I know I am not. I read this back and forth as where and how a person supports themselves financially is a factor that should be considered. Along with their life experiences, knowledge, sacrifices, etc.

I along with you have walked that tightrope. As a man that has made his living exploiting the resources found on public land, I know that tightrope very well. I would be lying if I said I hadn't fallen off that rope at least once. Not always but it can happen and should be considered.

 

[Irrelevant]

I swear you could change your name to this symbol based on the amount you use it... do you arms get tired from holding your hands up all the time?

Sorry, just busting ya a bit this morning, I may need more coffee

 

[Irrelevant]

Completely agree.

I am not sure anyone is saying he can't be trusted. I know I am not. I read this back and forth as where and how a person supports themselves financially is a factor that should be considered. Along with their life experiences, knowledge, sacrifices, etc.

I along with you have walked that tightrope. As a man that has made his living exploiting the resources found on public land, I know that tightrope very well. I would be lying if I said I hadn't fallen off that rope at least once. Not always but it can happen and should be considered.

If you came out and told me there were serious issues with the coal industry and I wouldn't take those with a grain of salt because you work in that industry, I would instead assume your are much more knowledgeable about an industry after working in it even though it was a paying job. So the general idea that Hoss is promoting, that you can't trust anyone who has an opinion on something because they were once, or are current paid for working in that industry, just doesn't hold water... at all. It's the same if a builder told me he thought there were serious issues with the building code, or the building inspector, I wouldn't ignore him because he gets paid to build homes.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

I wouldn't ignore him because he gets paid to build homes.

Either would I. I also wouldn't trust him solely based on the fact that he used to get paid to build homes and now wrote a book saying change is needed in the home building industry, appeared on npr and the Daily Show, and has a really cool IG feed.

Also, there are serious issues in coal industry? What do you know that your not telling me?