Ryan Busse. Anyone?

[hossblur]

If it is up to the middle to move these issues then how “honest” the brokers are isn’t the biggest concern.

Shouldn’t we be able to sort through the arguments and criticisms and form our own conclusions because we possess wisdom and strong moral character?

Or have we abdicated our own responsibilities to the point we rely on “trustworthy sources” to tell us what we should think?

Sure.

I'm part of "gun culture" and I can't define it.

How does someone not associated do so?

They look for inputs.

They look to experience.

I doubt highly Randy would switch "careers" and suddenly be Mike Lees Campaign manager.

To me, this looks more like a scorned lover, going scorched earth on the old inlaws, than an honest reevaluation of a path in life.

Again, haven't read the book, so perhaps their are chapters about how wrong HE was personally to sell dangerous fantasies to wanna be warriors. But if not, then his "it's the other guys" narrative will be hard to swallow.

Whistle blowers rarely make a profit in whistleblowing.

 

[Big Fin]

I've known Ryan for almost 15 years. He is a good friend. He and I talk/text regularly. I enjoy discussions with him, as our politics and perspectives have a lot of differences. He is smart, passionate, and adult enough the we can disagree and still be friends. He feels free to tell me where the "Bear chits in the woods" without worry I'm gonna block his number on my phone. And I do the same with him.

I know Ryan has struggled with how to change the image of gun ownership for many years. We've had a lot of talks about the concerns he addresses in the book. If you haven't read the book, I would suggest not relying on the quotes from either side. The book is his life experiences, which are substantial, owning/selling/loving firearms. He has been an influential voice in hunting and public land issues, both regionally and nationally. Ryan's passion for wild places, wild things, and hunting are as strong as any person I know.

Ryan knows I have different opinions of the gun issue, in terms of its political leverage and ways to protect gun ownership. I feel the gun control advocates adhere to a same litmus test of absolutism and is used the same way, just a mirror, as how the NRA has jacked much of Republican politics. I enjoy jousting with him about the different ways we view the topics.

I knew Ryan was frustrated with how much pressure is placed to "toe the line" in the gun industry. I wasn't in his position, so I got to see it mostly as an observer and with some good friends who previously worked with the NRA. I was given more latitude to ignore politics and lobby for issues based on what I think are best. In the firearm industry he was in, operating how I operate came with a lot of blowback and pressure.

We were both astounded with the Jim Zumbo termination and the need for Jim to align with the likes of Ted Nugent as some sort of repentance. That was the NRA flexing its muscle and making it known that they could do the same to anyone who spoke slightly out of the lines drawn by the NRA. That is a problem; that is unhealthy for gun ownership, hunting, and conservation.

In my opinion, the event that put him over the edge happened when some guy at a Kalispell event, toting his Armalite Rifle, verbally undressed and intimidated Ryan's 12 year-old son who was participating in a march. That seemed to be a watershed event. I can say that if my 12 year-old son had been intimidated in that way, there is a good chance the dude with the AR would get a chance to prove if he actually intended to use his AR to keep from getting his ass kicked.

If you are interested in how Ryan's story evolved, I would suggest you read or listen to the book. What he writes of his personal experience with firearms, from his life growing up on a Kansas farm, to his borderline infatuation with firearms as an adult is interesting. He had a unique window in the industry that most others didn't have. His NRA partnership at Kimber was making the NRA millions in fund raising. He was a necessary antagonist the NRA had to deal with, due to the financial realities he brought to them.

He talks about how he felt he could make changes to how the NRA had hijacked gun ownership to become a corrupt circle of insiders. I think current facts support his claim that the NRA was a corrupt circle likely to do more long-term damage to 2A than benefit. He and I would talk about that regularly, as the NRA would often intervene in hunting and conservation politics to the detriment of hunters and public land users. I can affirm Ryan's strong optimism that he could change that dynamic. His desire and work to change that was not something he came up with merely as a good story to sell a book.

Ryan knows I disagree with his ideas on how to change some of the things we all worry about. I've said many times that I think the gun control folks who claim to represent the impoverished segments of our population, those who are far more likely to be victims of violent crime, is the same as the political hijacking he sees on the pro-gun side. I see two parties leveraging opposite sides of the same issue, mostly to their own benefit and mostly to the detriment of the American public. Both claim to represent their constituents, yet are often acting against our interest on other issues that are equally important.

Ryan knows my family story and why I'm pretty much an absolutist on the Second Amendment. He respects that and understands why I have the position I do.

Folks who don't know Ryan and his life story will likely make quick judgements. That comes with the territory and with the behavior of our society. He knows that. He knows his partisan stripes make him an easy target. As he has told me for years, he doesn't really give a damn if he is a target. I can attest that Ryan's "give a chit" meter broke a long time ago.

I don't live in fear that Ryan is trying to take my guns. I do think he strongly feels his efforts will change the political dynamic where gun issues/positions are leveraged to the detriment of our society. Ryan feels he is making a case for gun owners to not be defined by the fringe elements, the kind who accosted his 12 year-old son and hid behind the intimidating open carry of an AR when doing so.

Ryan and I disagree on many aspects of the gun/politics discussion. I have respect for his commitment to the making the difference he feels will be helpful. Time will tell if the risks he has taken are worth the rewards/results.

 

[hossblur]

Fair enough.

Not sure how joining with the Gifford's orgs who have zero interest redefining gun owners images, will accomplish changing the image, but I don't know him and saw it as pretty suspicious.


More importantly, the robot team took 4th. Only 2 transfer to state, so, there's that

 

[44hunter45]

I've known Ryan for almost 15 years. He is a good friend. He and I talk/text regularly. I enjoy discussions with him, as our politics and perspectives have a lot of differences. He is smart, passionate, and adult enough the we can disagree and still be friends. He feels free to tell me where the "Bear chits in the woods" without worry I'm gonna block his number on my phone. And I do the same with him.

I know Ryan has struggled with how to change the image of gun ownership for many years. We've had a lot of talks about the concerns he addresses in the book. If you haven't read the book, I would suggest not relying on the quotes from either side. The book is his life experiences, which are substantial, owning/selling/loving firearms. He has been an influential voice in hunting and public land issues, both regionally and nationally. Ryan's passion for wild places, wild things, and hunting are as strong as any person I know.

Ryan knows I have different opinions of the gun issue, in terms of its political leverage and ways to protect gun ownership. I feel the gun control advocates adhere to a same litmus test of absolutism and is used the same way, just a mirror, as how the NRA has jacked much of Republican politics. I enjoy jousting with him about the different ways we view the topics.

I knew Ryan was frustrated with how much pressure is placed to "toe the line" in the gun industry. I wasn't in his position, so I got to see it mostly as an observer and with some good friends who previously worked with the NRA. I was given more latitude to ignore politics and lobby for issues based on what I think are best. In the firearm industry he was in, operating how I operate came with a lot of blowback and pressure.

We were both astounded with the Jim Zumbo termination and the need to Jim to align with the likes of Ted Nugent as some sort of repentance. That was the NRA flexing its muscle and making it known that they could do the same to anyone who spoke slightly out of the lines drawn by the NRA. That is a problem that is unhealthy for gun ownership, hunting, and conservation.

In my opinion, the event that put him over the edge happened when some guy at a Kalispell event, toting his Armalite Rifle, verbally undressed and intimidated Ryan's 12 year-old son who was participating in a march. That seemed to be a watershed event. I can say that if my 12 year-old son had been intimidated in that way, there is a good chance the dude with the AR would get a chance to prove if he actually intended to use his AR to keep from getting his ass kicked.

If you are interested in how Ryan's story evolved, I would suggest you read or listen to the book. What he writes of his personal experience with firearms, from his life growing up on a Kansas farm, to his borderline infatuation with firearms as an adult is interesting. He had a unique window in the industry that most others didn't have. His NRA partnership at Kimber was making the NRA millions in fund raising. He was a necessary antagonist the NRA had to deal with, due to the financial realities he brought to them.

He talks about how he felt he could make changes to how the NRA had hijacked gun ownership to become a corrupt circle of insiders. I think current facts support his claim that the NRA was a corrupt circle likely to do more long-term damage to 2A than benefit. He and I would talk about that regularly, as the NRA would often intervene in hunting and conservation politics to the detriments of hunters and public land users. I can affirm Ryan's strong optimism that he could change that dynamic. His desire and work to change that was not something he came up with merely as a good story to sell a book.

Ryan knows I disagree with his ideas on how to change some of the things we all worry about. I've said many times that I think the gun control folks who claim to represent the impoverished segments of our population, those who are far more likely to be victims of violent crime, is the same as the political hijacking he sees on the pro-gun side. I see two parties leveraging opposite sides of the same issue, mostly to their own benefit and mostly to the detriment of the American public. Both claim to represent their constituents, yet are often acting against our interest on other issues that are equally important.

Ryan knows my family story and why I'm pretty much an absolutist on the Second Amendment. He respects that and understands why I have the position I do.

Folks who don't know Ryan and his life story will likely make quick judgements. That comes with the territory and with the behavior of our society. He knows that. He knows his partisan stripes make him an easy target. As he has told me for years, he doesn't really give a damn if he is a target. I can attest that Ryan's "give a chit" meter broke a long time ago.

I don't live in fear that Ryan is trying to take my guns. I do think he strongly feels his efforts will change the political dynamic where gun issues/positions are leveraged to the detriment of our society. Ryan feels he is making a case for gun owners to not be defined by the fringe elements, the kind who accosted his 12 year-old son and hid behind the intimidating open carry of an AR when doing so.

Ryan and I disagree on many aspects of the gun/politics discussion. I have respect for his commitment to the making the difference he feels will be helpful. Time will tell if the risks he has taken are worth the rewards/results.

Thanks @Big Fin !

I was in the midst of editing a four page response, but you said it better. I don't know Mr Busse. I DO know my own personal evolution. Anyone who leads with "I don't know him..." and then questions my journey is free to step outside with me.

I'm trying to understand how this thread supports the Why of HT.

(edited for spelling...)

 

[Gerald Martin]

I'm trying to understand how this thread supports the Why of HT.

I am not in a position to speak for @Big Fin but having conversations that revolve around issues that affect us as hunters and conservationists is a very valuable component of this forum for me personally.


These arguments both pro or con in these discussions shape the way I think about the issues. That in turn influences how I engage my world around me.


Life is complex at times. I appreciate reading the arguments of people with different perspectives and experiences than myself.

 

[Nutrioso]

The only thing I can add is to emphasize the need to read his book. It is well written and well supported. You won’t think he is a green decoy or gun control shill when you are done. You may not agree with his take, but a lot of what he documents is hard to argue with.

 

[hossblur]

Thanks @Big Fin !

I was in the midst of editing a four page response, but you said it better. I don't know Mr Busse. I DO know my own personal evolution. Anyone who leads with "I don't know him..." and then questions my journey is free to step outside with me.

I'm trying to understand how this thread supports the Why of HT.

(edited for spelling...)

I don't personally know Mike Lee, but I criticize. I don't personally know Ken Ivory. But I criticize. I don't personally know Cliven Bundy or his spawn. You get my drift.

If every topic discussed here can only be done with personal knowledge of the people in the topic, Randy's babysitting job just got a lot easier.

As to why?

BHA. Very few of us would recognize his name if not for BHA. A group that I personally did give money to. Otherwise, yeah, a Kimber salesman writing a book, I doubt I'd pay attention to.

 

[hossblur]

The only thing I can add is to emphasize the need to read his book. It is well written and well supported. You won’t think he is a green decoy or gun control shill when you are done. You may not agree with his take, but a lot of what he documents is hard to argue with.

I never bought the green decoy crap to start with.

 

[wa_archer]

I personally like that fact that it open's up a new narrative to think and have conversations about. Its one of the benefits of platforms/books/information like this, at least when the discussion is thought provoking and not bashing someone for what they think. A lot can be learned from an open conversation.

I will start by saying i'm a huge proponent of the 2nd amendment. I wont say it in itself formed our country but was fundamental building block. With that said times have changed and what a firearm is have changed. Why cant we have discussions on gun safety, gun limitations and gun ownership without everyone jumping to there respective extreme corner. There are people that just want to reduce violence, accidents and increase safety without taking guns out of the picture.

I for one enjoy the open conversations on HT and have learned or changed my opinions and education on issues many times over the years.

I look forward to reading the entire book to see the thoughts and hopefully ideas of someone that was very much in the front end of the industry. Without a doubt he knows way more on the subject than i do. Not saying it will change my opinions but without a doubt will give me something the think about and/or look into deeper.

 

[RobG]

Ryan is a decent guy. We are about the same age. We both saw the gun culture change over the last 40 years. Back then people felt tactical weapons were for wars. Now the gun crowd wants to normalize carrying them around at protests, and if anyone suggests otherwise their career is ruined. Read the book. It's an inside story about how we got where we are.

 

[brocksw]

Ryan is a decent guy. We are about the same age. We both saw the gun culture change over the last 40 years. Back then people felt tactical weapons were for wars. Now the gun crowd wants to normalize carrying them around at protests, and if anyone suggests otherwise their career is ruined. Read the book. It's an inside story about how we got where we are.

Does Ryan offer any proposed "solutions" in his book? Is he pro gun registration? Pro firearms insurance?

 

[hossblur]

Ryan is a decent guy. We are about the same age. We both saw the gun culture change over the last 40 years. Back then people felt tactical weapons were for wars. Now the gun crowd wants to normalize carrying them around at protests, and if anyone suggests otherwise their career is ruined. Read the book. It's an inside story about how we got where we are.

I couldn't help but notice, on the Kimber site, a Kimber Tactical Pro II 1911.

"The gun crowd"?

That's actually what caught my eye originally. "Gun culture", from someone who sold guns, uses guns, owns guns.

What is "gun culture"? Was my uncle who carried a lever gun in his truck part of it? Am I since I don't?

Is it my AR that puts me in it, where my mini 14 didn't? Or my British .303?

Did the "gun culture" start with plastic stocks? Detachable mags? If so, that .303 has one.

Words do have meanings, especially buzz words...."Gun culture".

I keep reading defenses of the guy, and that's great, means he has friends. Anyone of you asked him if gun culture is so bad, did he give back any of those paychecks he made peddling guns like the Kimber Tactical 1911? You know, the pistol John Browning made for WWII soldiers. The one Kimber made its name on.

Snowden is in Russia. Assange in British prison. Busse works for Gifford's.? Whistle blowing I guess is now profitable?

I guess Montana is a lot different than Utah. Because HERE, I rode my bike through town with an 870 strapped to my back to hunt doves, pheasants, ducks.

I had my rifle in my racks on in my truck.

I guess open carry was only a Utah thing, huh? Or is it just those scary black guns, carried openly? And why are they so scary? Does groups like Gifford's make them so?

Man, I sound just like the NRA. Odd, since I've never been a member. Wanna bet if Busse was?

 

[mtmuley]

I noticed "the gun crowd" reference also. Kinda like "assault rifle". mtmuley

 

[RobG]

I noticed "the gun crowd" reference also. Kinda like "assault rifle". mtmuley

You and the others are big boys. You know what I meant.

 

[RobG]

I couldn't help but notice, on the Kimber site, a Kimber Tactical Pro II 1911.

Wow, you are a real Sherlock. If you read his book you will find out why they started selling them. That change is really what the book is about.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

Does Ryan offer any proposed "solutions" in his book? Is he pro gun registration? Pro firearms insurance?

Can’t speak to Mr. Busse’s “solutions” but the Giffords organization that he has become the poster child for is pretty clear on bringing about a national gun registry, banning semi-automatic firearms. Maybe even throw in background checks for ammo purchases like in CA for good measure. But hey, all in the name of “reasonable gun safety measures”, right? And if you don’t agree you must be part of the deplorable “gun crowd”.

 

[JLS]

Lots of assumptions flying around the room here.

 

[hossblur]

Wow, you are a real Sherlock. If you read his book you will find out why they started selling them. That change is really what the book is about.

Im gonna guess $$$.

 

[The_Jim]

I don't plan on reading his book and I imagine most people that read this thread will not read it either. He was on Seek Outside's podcast and it was an interesting listen if you want to hear what he's about.

While I personally disagree with basically everything he said in the podcast & I was disappointed that he was never pressed with an opposing view, he isn't super abrasive and I didn't mind listening to his points.

 

[4ohSick]

Just gonna throw my 2 cents in and then step away: owning an AR is not the problematic "gun culture." Owning 10 AR's isn't "gun culture." Having an AR in the gun rack in your back window for everyone to see isn't "gun culture" (although it's probably inviting a break-in). Dressing up in fatigues and a tactical vest and carrying that AR to counter-protest people looking for police accountability or any number of other social changes IS problematic "gun culture."