lpcoutdoors
Active member
Well now after reading this thread, and especially Randy's comments, I will have to read this book now! What's that saying about bad publicity is still good publicity, or something like that......
Ryan Busse. Anyone?
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Ben Long
Well-known member
I've known Busse for 20 years. Hunted with him. Bought guns from him. Our boys were babies together. I was also at the rally in Kalispell where 150 vigilantes showed up with ARs, basically abusing their 2A rights to intimidate people exercising their 1A rights. Ryan's opinions and experiences are his own, but they come honestly from his gut. I suggest reading the book. Second, I will say that I've met no one who lives the hunting, fishing and shooting life more than Ryan. He may not fall in line with anyone's dogma, but he calls it like he sees it.
D
Deleted member 28227
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Can you tell me who you would believe?
Personally I've owned guns in 3 states with Gifford rankings of
A) MA, (C) Colorado, and (F) Montana. There's definitely a lot of middle ground to be had IMHO, and I think honestly there are just some geographic differences, one size fits all laws are pretty tough for a lot of things in this country. Would love to have coffee with a Sheriff from WY and a cop from Boston and hear what they had to say on the issue.I'm interested to see what Busse has to say in his book, always curious to hear from industry insiders... and to that end Randy has IMHO been pretty transparent about some of his feelings about the hunting TV business
.Can you tell me who you would believe?
Personally I've owned guns in 3 states with Gifford rankings of
I'm interested to see what Busse has to say in his book, always curious to hear from industry insiders... and to that end Randy has IMHO been pretty transparent about some of his feelings about the hunting TV business
If Busse discusses "the culture" as a whole, , is no problem.
But pretending that scary black gun, or the NRA is a bigger issue than the cultural rot in places like Chicago or St Louis is cowardly
And gun owners, know that. Your AR could stay locked and loaded for 30 years, and no problem.
I took hunters safety 36 years ago. Don't point a gun at anything you don't intend to destroy, was true then, as it is now.
The issue isn't "gun culture", whatever that is. It's not "tactical fantasies". The issue is a loss of appreciation for life.
That's not the NRA problem. That's the groups that whitewash the obvious, to blame a piece of metal and plastic.
And the Gifford's org, pushes that lie. Associating with them, or taking money from them means you agree with the lie.
The "gun culture", or "gun crowd" ain't the issue.
And Busse knows better. But going after the core problem, is much tougher than inventing a straw man. God forbid you be called a racist, white supremacist, Trumper, or whatever else gets thrown his way.
Should we do the Chicago shooting data vs NRA , or can we be honest? Don't mean shit what buisn ss model any gun company follows.
Keep your finger off the trigger. Super simple
D
Deleted member 28227
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So no one?
I haven’t read the book, I don’t know the man personally, I’m going off of comments of other posters, but it appears to me that commenting on gun culture and especially advertising is well within his wheelhouse.
If anything is problematic here it’s the NRA et al. trying to stifle discourse.
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D
Deleted member 28227
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Here is an interview about the book with Busse
www.npr.org
Former gun industry insider explains why he left to fight for the other side
Gunfight author Ryan Busse was once a rising star in the gun industry. But he became disillusioned after Columbine when, he says, the NRA began to use "fear and conspiracy and hatred" to boost sales.
www.npr.org
Not a huge fan of the NRA, but I'm not sure you understand what they are if you think their job is to encourage discourse on how to limit firearm production or ownership.
FI460
Well-known member
I see some interesting parallels between this thread and the hunter/ environmentalist thread.
Political litmus tests...
Wide variability on what our side thinks the root of the issue is...
Hard for me to agree that the mainstream of gun culture that I grew up in hasn't shifted pretty dramatically.
Political litmus tests...
Wide variability on what our side thinks the root of the issue is...
Hard for me to agree that the mainstream of gun culture that I grew up in hasn't shifted pretty dramatically.
D
Deleted member 28227
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Jim Zumbo...
Encourage no, but like come on...
Or what about the boycott of Ed Shultz?
There is some middle ground between encouraging and burning folks at the stake if they don't tow the line.
I didn't know who Busse was until I opened this thread. I then read BFs comment amongst others and did some googling, just finished the interview. I don't agree with him on some points, but he seems at least well intentioned, and a subject matter expert on the industry.
Personally I don't have an issue with taking his statements about the industry as facts and then disagreeing with him on solutions.
I'm married to an accountant. A real good one. Here's what you learn when your married to one of those dorks, as I'm sure Mrs. Newberg can attest,
FOLLOW THE MONEY.
According to his bio, he's a consultant for "progressive" organizations.
Columbine was in the 90's. Sandy hook, 2012.
Busse quit in 2020.
Now if one FOLLOWS THE MONEY, and not the spin, or crafted narrative, one might conclude that THE MONEY kept him selling guns, long after his "concern".
One might also conclude from FOLLOWING THE MONEY, that a guy with pretty deep left wing connections, eyeing a career as a "consultant to progressive organizations", saw a chance to bolster his leftist cred and wrote a book he knew would feed the leftist narrative?
Further, his bio, says he was pushed out of Kimber by the NRA, for his loud support of public lands(BHA).
Now one could logically believe, the NRA would have pushed him out for his loud opposition to them, no? They cared more about BHA then themselves? Or, perhaps just maybe, the legendary Kimber salesman toed the company line, and I'll bet as at least a member of the NRA, if not a lifetime member.?
I'll assume he has a house, eats food, drives a car. Those things cost money. FOLLOW THAT MONEY. Gifford's doesn't associate with middle of the roaders. In fact one could argue, they are as adamant as the NRA. Yet, Busse get paid by them?
Not a lot of MONEY in being middle of the road. Paychecks are written in BHA for rank and file. Nor are they written for rank and file progressives.
D
Deleted member 28227
Guest
Who was paying Jim Zumbo?
The assumptions and vitriol directed at Busse by folks who haven't taken the time to read the book is frustrating. It's indicative of the themes he wrote about in the book and encapsulates American political discourse pretty well. I don't agree with Busse on everything but the book is a recounting his experiences in the firearms industry.
Just like the NRA and NSSF, Giffords group is political. That's a focus of the book- how the NRA and gun industry shifted from being a gunowners/sportsmans interest group to a defacto wing of the Republican party. Giffords group is working to elect democrats. There's no ambiguity there.
In relation to Hunttalk, BHA and public lands I'm not sure that either the NRA or Gifford really matter. Neither organization is focused on preserving public lands and hunting heritage. They're out to get Rs and Ds elected. If the NRA gave a damn about public land hunting, don't you think they would give Mike Lee an F? The idea of public land divestiture wouldn't be lingering if the NRA made a bold statement against it.
I don't think Busse left Kimber and immediately set out on a mission to seize your semi-autos. In my estimation, he made a calculation that places like the Roan Plateau and Badger-Two medicine were more important than an industry focused on selling ARs to fat dudes wearing tactical pants.
Take some time and read the book. It's unlikely to sway your opinions but it's disingenuous to have this conversation until you do.
Just like the NRA and NSSF, Giffords group is political. That's a focus of the book- how the NRA and gun industry shifted from being a gunowners/sportsmans interest group to a defacto wing of the Republican party. Giffords group is working to elect democrats. There's no ambiguity there.
In relation to Hunttalk, BHA and public lands I'm not sure that either the NRA or Gifford really matter. Neither organization is focused on preserving public lands and hunting heritage. They're out to get Rs and Ds elected. If the NRA gave a damn about public land hunting, don't you think they would give Mike Lee an F? The idea of public land divestiture wouldn't be lingering if the NRA made a bold statement against it.
I don't think Busse left Kimber and immediately set out on a mission to seize your semi-autos. In my estimation, he made a calculation that places like the Roan Plateau and Badger-Two medicine were more important than an industry focused on selling ARs to fat dudes wearing tactical pants.
Take some time and read the book. It's unlikely to sway your opinions but it's disingenuous to have this conversation until you do.
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It's odd to find yourself defending a group your not a member of.
But here I sit, reading Jim Zumbo, and the only thing I can think is if anyone remembers that time a sitting President ran guns to Mexican cartels with the hope being those guns would end up on murder scenes, so that President could use that crisis to go after gun owners?
Now I know, that sounds like something the NRA would put out to stoke irrational fears, or create a big brother is coming false narrative.
Only, it did happen.
I seem to mis the righteous indignation on that one.
But Jim Zumbo and all.
Sure is a lot of speculation on a Senator you've never met and don't know.
Speculation seems welcome as long as it's across the fence, I guess.
No. I won't read it. I have no intention of supporting the Giffirds cause. So I guess in 5 years at the library I will.
Im out, the subject is boring, as all I've learned is some dudes in Montana live by him and he's a nice neighbor. And that despite every guy who says "read the book", then follows it with "I don't agree with him on any of it", it's not fair game to question motives.
Let's go back to trashing Utah congress people you've never met, don't know, and speculate about their motives.
Straight Arrow
Well-known member
Yet another fake news perspective to argue about gun control with skewed information. The failed DEA plot to put firearms in the hands of Cartel criminals in an attempt to track the Cartel members and arrest them is oft irrationally cited as a sitting President's ploy to promote gun control. There are many factual instances to examine in advocating for 2A ... you don't have to don your tinfoil hat to conjure them up.
I don’t care about their motives. I care about their voting record on certain issues.Let's go back to trashing Utah congress people you've never met, don't know, and speculate about their motives.
D
Deleted member 28227
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@hossblur answer the original question sir.
I love to hash things out with folks with different perspectives, but come on you're just dodging and changing the subject. The back and forth between you and me, aren't talking about giffords, or gun laws, or Obama.
Do you have a person who's perspective you respective enough on firearms, that you could say; "Hey I disagree, but I think you arrived at that thinking honestly, and while it doesn't sway me I do respect it."
Personally, I had a back and forth with BigFin on the ESA on a different thread, I think he is a subject matter expert and I respect his opinion, I don't think that his statements were informed by anything other than hard earned life experiences.
Your answer could be no... I mean a bit cynical, but hey I can understand being cynical.
.....
I love to hash things out with folks with different perspectives, but come on you're just dodging and changing the subject. The back and forth between you and me, aren't talking about giffords, or gun laws, or Obama.
Do you have a person who's perspective you respective enough on firearms, that you could say; "Hey I disagree, but I think you arrived at that thinking honestly, and while it doesn't sway me I do respect it."
Personally, I had a back and forth with BigFin on the ESA on a different thread, I think he is a subject matter expert and I respect his opinion, I don't think that his statements were informed by anything other than hard earned life experiences.
Your answer could be no... I mean a bit cynical, but hey I can understand being cynical.
HSi-ESi
Well-known member
I got the book back in October and read it straight through. I've long been a fan of Kimber's 1911 guns, so I was excited to read it from that perspective.
The vast majority of the book is Busse's experience and stories as Kimber grew - and is a great read.
I think Busse has a valid point with folks using open carry as 'armed intimidation'. I saw it akin to Sam Elliot when he played Virgil Earp in Tombstone
The vast majority of the book is Busse's experience and stories as Kimber grew - and is a great read.
I think Busse has a valid point with folks using open carry as 'armed intimidation'. I saw it akin to Sam Elliot when he played Virgil Earp in Tombstone
sacountry
Well-known member
Man, my office is within a block of where that rally was. To think I could have met the Lamb in person.
I do sense that the opinions expressed on this thread indicate that there are nutjobs on both ends of the spectrum, but Ryan doesn't qualify as a nutjob. The biggest challenge to his credibility now is not becoming a spokesperson for anyone. He and his story will be so much stronger if he remains an island. Or, technically there is room in the middle for an organization that advocates for responsible gun ownership. He's uniquely positioned to lead and sit on that board.
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