Round In The Chamber

[ImBillT]

. anyone who can guarantee that they would NEVER forget their firearm is chambered after putting a round in at 3:30 in the morning for a 12 hour day of slogging the mountains is being willfully ignorant (dumb, really).

I always treat my guns like there is a round chambered. It’s not an issue of remembering. The opposite is what I have forgotten. I missed an opportunity at a cow moose because I had forgotten to chamber a round after unloading at the truck to drive to a new spot. Now I’m not saying that you should carry one in the chamber so that you don’t forget. That’s not the point at all. The point is that I won’t forget at 5:00pm that I chambered a round 5:00am. I always assume that my rifle is loaded. Honestly though. It’s possible that if I always assumed that my rifle was empty, I would not have muffed it on that cow moose. Spending time pulling a trigger that wasn’t cocked, and then fiddling with the safety until I figured out that my rifle had never been loaded didn’t help, although I still had a shot, and what spooked her was the sound of chambering the round. Even so, I might have chambered that round more successfully if I hadn’t gotten so frustrated figuring out that my chamber was empty.

I hunt solo. I usually have a round chambered if the rifle is slung or in my hands. I usually carry with an empty chamber if the rifle is going hands free in the gun bearer as it is more likely to snag on things when I’m doing that. Sometimes I unload when crossing a fence. Other times, if it’s soft and grassy, I have laid my rifle under the fence with the barrel pointed in a safe direction and picked it up when I was on the other side. I mind my muzzle if I encounter someone. If I was hunting with someone, I would definitely have more to consider. I also would be uncomfortable hunting with someone who had a round chambered unless there were extremely uptight about it.

 

[ImBillT]

No such thing as an “accidental” discharge. Seems like there have been more hunting fatalities caused by “unloaded” guns and complacency.

Yes. Sadly this reminds me of the Remington trigger issue. It was an issue that was unsafe, but that poor mom that shot her son while taking the rifle off safe still had a rifle pointed at her son. The same is true for every single person who shot someone while taking a Remington off safe. BUT, no one is perfect. That’s why we have redundancies in safe firearms handling. I suppose the Remington safety was failing to do its job. I guess I can also be talked into there being value in not carrying a loaded firearm when hunting with others. Hunting solo I don’t see it as a huge issue.

 

[OleRedbeard]

Hunting open country out west where I know I will have longer shots and usually more time to set up a shot no round in the chamber. Hunting timber or the big woods on a stand or still hunting I always have one in the chamber. I don't know of many instances still hunting where I would have been allotted the noise or the time to make a ethical shot on a big game animal. With grouse or other small game I usually have my gun broke down with a dog until it points although its cost me a few birds I will take that.
If I am alone without a dog and busting brush its about half and half depending on the terrain and how birdie it looks.
Situation dictates.

 

[MTTW]

Yes. Sadly this reminds me of the Remington trigger issue. It was an issue that was unsafe, but that poor mom that shot her son while taking the rifle off safe still had a rifle pointed at her son. The same is true for every single person who shot someone while taking a Remington off safe. BUT, no one is perfect. That’s why we have redundancies in safe firearms handling. I suppose the Remington safety was failing to do its job. I guess I can also be talked into there being value in not carrying a loaded firearm when hunting with others. Hunting solo I don’t see it as a huge issue.

The mom who shot her son, shot through a horse trailer. Sad deal just the same.

 

[Brian in Montana]

If hiking in to a glassing knob with my rifle strapped to my backpack, I don't have a round chambered. Once I get to the glassing knob or a place I'm going to drop anchor and hunt from, I chamber a round and top off the magazine.

Basically, if my hands are on the rifle, I'm in active control of it, I prefer to have a round in the chamber.

I have a friend I hunt with occasionally who is uncomfortable with having a round chambered until the crosshairs are on a game animal. When I'm hunting with him, I respect his wishes and leave the pipe empty, not a problem. I have my own way of doing things developed over a lifetime, but I don't think this is actually a huge deal one way or the other.

 

[Bill Zent]

I have a Sako and at times have put a round in the chamber without it being cocked for safety, just raise and lower the bolt and it is ready to fire.

 

[ImBillT]

The mom who shot her son, shot through a horse trailer. Sad deal just the same.

Well that seems like a substantially less obvious mistake. I saw her and her husband talking about it in a video condemning Remington, and either I missed the horse trailer part, or they left that out of that particular video. I’m not giving Remington a complete pass either. A rifle shouldn’t fire when you take the safety off.

Point it at the ground I guess.

 

[BrentD]

So would you carry your muzzleloader around without a primer? Or what would you do?

I use one of these.

https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/page/search?FullText=Kap+Kover

They have a ton of advantages. But if you are a bit cheap and willing to give up the o-ring seal (which is not very important imo), you can use a .38 special or 9mm case the same way. However, just make sure that the case is long enough that the weight of the hammer is transferring to the bolster, not the nipple. This is something that you can flick off with your thumb while cocking the hammer. It swings from your trigger guard on that lanyard while you draw your bead.

With a flintlock you can stick a feather in your flash hole, for the same effect.

All that said I do not feel too risky when hunting at halfcock. But not all halfcocks are equal. On better grade modern or vintage locks they are pretty foolproof. On cheap guns, maybe not at all. Some will fire from half @#)(# or at least let the hammer fall.

In so far as cartridge guns are concerned, I think this chamber full, chamber empty thing is really more about ones hunting conditions than anything. I see the occasional internet bird hunter who says he carries his gun broken open. Something I have tried and found completely ridiculous, to the point that I am pretty much in disbelief if one is hunting birds on rough ground and tall cover. It is also darn hard on the gun. Things like pheasants and grouse really do not work that way. In 40ish years of bird hunting all over the country, I have yet to see a guy carrying a gun with action open, not even a pump or semiauto, much less an over/under or proper double. I do appreciate seeing a hunter, open his action when approaching or being approached in the field. Doubles are convenient that way. Semiautos, not so much.

How many of you hunt with a single shot rifle? Do you carry an empty chamber and your bullet in your pocket? Again, something I have never seen in the field, albeit, I do not see many singleshots in the field.
My chambers are often empty when I hunt out west, or when I'm simply walking into a blind (which is rare) in the midwest. I do not cozy up to a roosted gobbler with an empty chamber in a 97 Winchester either. It will wake the county when slammed closed.

I suspect that most of the comments about always empty until the last moment or always loaded, are probably not quite so absolute.

 

[ImBillT]

Never have and I have never missed an opportunity because of it.

I haven’t exactly. There was a lot more going on than just having an empty chamber. I was slowly walking the edge of a timber cut in the last fifteen minutes of moose season when a cow stepped out at 30-40yds. I pulled the trigger until I realized that something was wrong. I went to flip the safety off and discovered that it was already off. I must have forgotten to chamber a round when I got out of the truck. So I attempted to slowly chamber a round and could not get the bolt to close. I had been driving from cut to cut looking for the freshest sign all day, and would put the magazine in my pocket when I got in the truck, then put it back in the rifle when I got out. I must have picked up a leaf or a twig, or some other schmutz and couldn’t close the bolt on the round. I had the bright idea that perhaps I could pull the bolt back and ram it home to chamber the round. Unfortunately the extractor had not snapped onto the rim, and pulling the bolt back left the round in the chamber, so when I rammed home, I had picked up a second round and created a jam. The cow turned and looked at me while I tried to clear the extra round. She turned and disappeared into the timber just as I closed the bolt on a live round. A lot more was going on than not chambering a round. I can’t blame that on not having a round chambered when hunting. I usually do though, and assumed that I had. Most of the time hunting in the west though, I would only see the truck 1-2 times per day, so I’m not accustomed to loading and unloading repeatedly like I had that day.

Two years prior I was hiking in with my rifle in my gun bearer, and intentionally empty. I made a sharp corner and there were about 80 cows and calves between 50 and 150 yards. I took two steps back, got low, chambered a round quietly, and took a cow at 50ish yards. Maybe less.

I don’t think I can say that I didn’t collect the moose because I didn’t have a round chambered. I can however say that if I had chambered a round when I exited the truck, that I would have killed that cow moose. I have jumped deer where having a round chambered would definitely be an advantage. Most of the time though, I want more time to judge the deer than I get when I jump a deer by surprise, so generally I would say that having a round chambered in unimportant. I hunt solo, and thus I don’t see having an empty chamber as substantially increasing safety. If I was hunting with a partner or perhaps more than one partner, then that would definitely change the math.

I have been around friends with guns and been shocked and appalled at their lack of gun safety, and I would definitely say there are circumstances where being known as the OCD gun safety guy that doesn’t let anyone chamber a round etc. etc. than to single someone out and expect a change. I would also say that it’s more difficult to be safe with two people than with one, and adding a third or fourth would just make that exponentially more difficult, so I’m confident that I would feel much differently with a partner or in a group.

 

[ImBillT]

I suspect that most of the comments about always empty until the last moment or always loaded, are probably not quite so absolute.

I loved your comments. Lots of cool stuff as usual.

I wouldn’t say “absolute” for me, but I do have a personal rule. If it’s legal light, and my rifle is out of my gun bearer, it’s loaded. Accidentally breaking this rule has only been a hinderance to me once that I can think of. But that rule isn’t “always chambered”. I don’t trust a chambered rifle in my gun bearer, nor do I consider it a disadvantage to have an empty rifle in my gun bearer. Usually, if it’s in my gun bearer, I’m either in rugged terrain where I need my hands, traveling a long way on trafficked trails before I reach my hunting area, or it’s dark.

My rule is not “always chambered”, and I’ve accidentally broken my rule, usually without any problems. The one time there was a problem, there were a lot of factors to blame besides not having a round chambered before seeing the animal, however, had a round been chambered, I’d have killed the cow moose.

My rule would likely change if I was hunting with a partner.

 

[Laelkhunter]

I have a Sako and at times have put a round in the chamber without it being cocked for safety, just raise and lower the bolt and it is ready to fire.

How do you do that? Is it one of the straight pull actions? Not sure what you mean by raise and lower the bolt. Do you mean the bolt handle (for lack of a better term)? Or is the round chambered but the bolt is still locked back? I'm trying to fully understand what you mean (I'm sorry).

 

[Bill Zent]

Hold the trigger back when pushing the round into the chamber, and you have it loaded but not cocked.

 

[Sheltowee]

Hold the trigger back when pushing the round into the chamber, and you have it loaded but not cocked.

With the firing pin jammed in the back of the primer?

 

[BrentD]

With the firing pin jammed in the back of the primer?

Every time.

 

[2rocky]

I grew up "jump shooting"/Still hunting blacktail deer. So when I think of the folks who say they never shoot a moving game animal or never move with a loaded chamber I chuckle. I certainly have certain times I always unload my chamber.
1) In camp/at the trailhead/vehicle. I usually will unload my chamber a few hundred yards before I get there while pointing the muzzle in a safe direction, regardless of the weapon (shotgun/rifle/rimfire)
2) In the scabbard on horseback
3) While riding an ATV
4) While travelling in a vehicle front or back. (I get a little queasy on some people's muzzle control.)
5) If I am not the primary shooter or needed for immediate backup.
6) If I don't have my rifle in one or more hands.
7) Crossing a fence or sketchy footing.

I would not be opposed to having an empty chamber on a real Trophy hunt where we are going to size up a game animal from hundreds of yards away. but if I'm carrying in "ready position" I'm going to have one in the pipe.

 

[Bill Zent]

With the firing pin jammed in the back of the primer?

Completely safe in my Sako!

 

[Sheltowee]

Completely safe in my Sako!

I... don't think that is correct, unless Sako has some sort of rebounding firing pin.

 

[Bill Zent]

Check out Sako safety specs.

 

[Straight Arrow]

'Never had a sheep tag but the one year I shot a Ram was when I got back to my Dodge pickup, aimed my Remington 700 BDL 7mag muzzle at the floor, opened the bolt, and BOOM!!!
'Shot my Ram! I had been dubious about the Remington malfunction until then. I took the rifle to Capitol Sports and had them clean it thorougly and replace the trigger and safety mechanism with a double safety so the bolt can be opened with safety on.
However, from then on I don't hike and hunt with a round in the chamber. If you don't have time to chamber a round, then you don't really have a good shot opportunity.