Rifles - Opinions wanted

[Big Fin]

One probably when asking for opinions is that you may not always like some of the opinions you get. Anyhow, I value the opinions on this site, and am going to ask the question, regardless of whether or not I agree with the opinions.

It relates to rifle sponsorship of the show. I have some interesting options that are being considered. And no, it does not involved a firearm company who also makes ammo in those green boxes. When you sign with Federal, who was on board from the beginning and is a huge supporter of the On Your Own hunter, you go forward knowing you will never have a relationship with companies who are competing ammo manufacturers, even if you do shoot their rifles.


Here is the issue I want opinions on.

A custom rifle company thinks the On Your Own hunter is a good product testing ground for their rifles. They think that even though the percentage of custom rifle buyers may be lower among the On Your Own hunter, there are still those buyers in the On Your Own crowd. And given the much larger audience of the On Your Own hunter, the total number of potential customers in the On Your Own world is greater than the total number of potential customers in the guided world.

I tend to agree with this concept, though no one seems to have data to provide support for the notion, or to argue against the notion.

There is also the brand issue. Does a custom rifle maker risk reducing their brand, via association with what some in the industry incorrectly think to be the lower end customer found in the On Your Own hunter? We have data to show the On Your Own hunters spend as much per capita on equipment as guided hunters, so the data does not support their concern of On Your Own hunters being on the lower-end. But common held beliefs can be hard to dispell.

Or, does the more demanding nature of On Your Own hunting as it is shown on our episodes, and as experienced by most of you, demonstrate that the product is extremely capable of peforming under difficult conditions? Even more so than showing the product used on guided hunts and safaris?

And then there is the issue related to our brand - On Your Own Adventures. If a custom rifle company supports the On Your Own hunter and the non-guided concept, but produces a rifle that many viewers find beyond their budget, are we risking the OYOA brand, in the eyes of our viewers?

I hope we can eventually to dispell the myth that On Your Own hunting is merely a function of finances. To many, it is a function of pride and satisfaction. Would aligning with a custom rifle company make that more difficult, less difficult?

Not sure I am making any sense here. I will try to say it in one question.

Would you rather we use rifles under $1,500 even though the companies may have declined supporting the On Your Own hunter, OR .....

Would you rather we use the rifles of a custom rifle maker who views the On Your Own hunter as a valuable part of his potential customer base and a great proving ground for the durability and quality of his product?

So with that long-winded spiel, let's here it.

 

[----]

I'd say support the company that's willing to support you. If a rifle company wants to get a mass advertisement like that, than obviously they think your viewers would be interested in their product.

 

[stillkickin]

My vote goes with any qualified OYOA supporter that has put their money where their belief is. Although I have never purchased a custom rifle, I usually customize every one of mine with a trigger job, some I have replaced the factory ugly with a fiberglass pillar bedded stock too.

Most of my rifles have been of the 'green box" variety, shotguns too. But would seriously consider brooming some or most of them if I really respected the individualism and committment of an OYOA sponsor.

I have switched to Federal ammo for the first time in my life, I guess I always bought the other stuff out of habit.

 

[elk_hunter]

Fin, can you clarify something for me...if, for example, you (OYOA) signed with a high-end custom rifle maker, does that mean all rifle shots (including all televised stuff) must be done with that brand of rifle? Or is the question whether OYOA would want a high-end rifle manufacturer as a sponsor?

 

[csutton7]

Would you rather we use rifles under $1,500 even though the companies may have declined supporting the On Your Own hunter, OR .....

I see no problem with using whatever rifle you want--custom or not.....

Would you rather we use the rifles of a custom rifle maker who views the On Your Own hunter as a valuable part of his potential customer base and a great proving ground for the durability and quality of his product?

again the show is based on hunting on your own, not about rifles---if they want to donate a rifle or rifles to you to use, then GO FOR IT---only thing is what do they want in return, so if the RETURN isn't going to put you in a bind you don't want to be in personally or concerning the show then GO FOR IT!!!

I bought a custom gun this yr and wow I'm so impressed that I'm not sure I'll ever buy an off the shelf gun again and if I do it will get customized, but most of my rifles are customized to some point, but this new one is the cat's pajamas and opened my eyes big time with what a full custom job rifle can do vs partially custom or off the shelf rifle---chris

 

[danr55]

Interesting proposition. Seems that the quality of a rifle will become evident regardless of who or where it's advertised. Numbers say that the more people you reach with a quality product, the more product you are going to sell. I'm sure there are hunters in this crowd who will sacrifice all year long to buy that one rifle that they really want. There are some who can afford any rifle they want, who may be swayed by the rifle's performance. Something they may have been previously unaware of. Seems to me it would be a winning deal for the manufacturer.

I'm not sure I understand your reluctance to allow a high end rifle company to sponsor your show. How would that adversely effect OYOA? If a hunter is going to hunt OYO, the rifle he carries will most likely be HIS choice and not someone elses. I don't think the willingness or desire to hunt OYO is effected by financial standing. I can afford to hunt with an outfitter if I choose, but I prefer to hunt OMO. I've hunted with outfitters, but don't find the same satisfaction. So....

Well, that's just my opinion. I don't think that either you or the rifle manufacturer would be adversely effected by the deal. Go for it..

 

[Big Fin]

Fin, can you clarify something for me...if, for example, you (OYOA) signed with a high-end custom rifle maker, does that mean all rifle shots (including all televised stuff) must be done with that brand of rifle?

The nature of TV is that when you sign a sponsor, you better like their product, as you will be expected to use it in every episode. The sponsorship contracts of TV have product class exclusivity, so all shots will be with whatever rifle brand we settle on.

Which is why some of our product categories are still not filled. I have not been able to work a deal with a company whose products I feel comfortable using and therefore go without a sponsorship in that category, rather than using lower grade stuff. Dumb, but we all know pride is an expensive thing.

Or is the question whether OYOA would want a high-end rifle manufacturer as a sponsor?

That is a concern, also. Would people think any differently of OYOA because we were using rifles that some think are more than should be paid for a rifle, and thus not in touch with the average viewer? I don't think so, but am interested to know.

 

[jabber]

Personally, I think it would be a negative thing for OYOA. I am basing that on my view of another show that bases their hunting in the west and use a custom rifle/scope as their major sponsor. Knowing I would probably never buy one of them kind of is a turn off to me.

Of course, a couple of years ago I never would have thought I would have spent the money that I did on binos & spotting scope last year and that made a world of difference to me, so maybe a high dollar rifle would also.

 

[Craig S.]

Randy,

If it is a good product and if you believe they will get the job done, then go for it man! It is awesome to see you are pretty darn picky and you take pride in what you sale on TV.

Your show travels across the west and many average hunters don't get to do that but they look forward to seeing you go through some of the same frustrations they go through when hunting public land even if they can't afford to apply. Many of these folks won't be able to afford a high dollar gun but some will.

The HARDCORE guy, the true HARDCORE guys, ALL do it on their OWN and spend big time money on great products and you can't FAKE it to those guys. But these guys can't buy a product if they haven't seen it.

The guy that just expects to pay their way and not put the time in are the ones that buy expensive fad items, they will buy the most expensive bogus products and those guys only make up 5% of hunters or less. These guys don't get your show anyway!

If it is a good product, sign them man!

You must be a pretty damn honest guy to even post this on here. That is AWESOME!!!!

 

[cornfed]

IMO I think it would be a big win for the rifle company but a touchy subject with some viewers.If your preaching to the 97 percent group and then exclusivly using a product that I'm assuming a way lower percent of people would be able to justify for hunting.You may be allienating some viewers.Its up to you if its worth the risk.Disclaimer,I couldn't afford a custom and don't want to think I need one to be a successful D.I.Y. hunter.

 

[Wyodeerhunter]

Would you rather we use rifles under $1,500 even though the companies may have declined supporting the On Your Own hunter, OR .....

I don't care what the company supports etc when it comes to buying a product. If the product works to my expectations I'm going to buy it. I will not even care if they anti hunting, if their product is superior to the others than I'm going to use it. Example: Pantagonia.


Would you rather we use the rifles of a custom rifle maker who views the On Your Own hunter as a valuable part of his potential customer base and a great proving ground for the durability and quality of his product?

Same answer as above. I don't care what their views would be on a hunting show, sports show or anything regarding tv, politics, music etc....


Should the view of OYOA keep the products they sponsor within the reasonable budget of the average hunter?

I think that is what you are really trying to get at. I don't think theres a correct answer for that because.....

An OYOA hunter is going to use the best gear he can to help on his hunts. Almost every OYOA hunter will start off with a cheap rifle, a cheap scope binoculars etc. But over time a fair number of OYOA hunters will "upgrade". Best word I could think of, where's Noharley when you need him ?

When I read the title of this thread the first company to come to mind was the ones who produce the "green ammo boxes" hahahahhaha. Oh well.

 

[rosco]

I don't think the OYO guys all necessarily hunt with a Stevens..check out the 24hr, lots of gun nuts..Just because you don't pay a guide, doesn't mean you use sub par equipment ..quite the opposite in fact. not saying off the shelf is sub par, just saying I cant see where it should matter to a viewer.

as long as it isn't TC, go for it!

 

[MN Public Hunter]

This is truly an interesting question...On one hand you have a company that wants to fund OYOA to keep the show moving forward, but yet it's product it out of reach for most people that do OYOA in my opinion.

Because I don't have the want to purchase a custom rifle nor do I ever think I need a custom rifle to kill any American big game animal I don't believe I will ever do so, but I honestly think you need to ask the question of yourself "Do I truly believe this custom $3500 rifle is any better than my $900 stock rifle and can I make my viewers believe I believe this?". Now this really does not matter to me because we all know you need the funding to keep the show going so to me personally I say take the money and tell your viewers what you want, I won't think any less of you.

The real problem is I can't even prove to myself the $3500 rifle is better than the stock one because it's not like I can just go into a store and test them out like I can do with a bow. I hate to tell you, I don't just take the word of people on TV about the products they use because we all know they are being paid whether they believe it's the best product or not.

I don't see any problem with taking sponsor money and using the product if you yourself believe in the product. I like to believe this show is about people doing the hunting on their own and not about the products, but maybe I'm just being stupid.

 

[elk_hunter]

Thanks for the info, Fin. The thing that excites and yet bothers me is the exclusivity (how is that for contradictory). I think it might create a rift. I think about the Christensen Arms show -- they have nice rifles and all but seriously, I've made great shots with my rifles and I didn't spend several thousand on a custom one like they did. Granted, guns nowadays are in the $1000-2000 range when you outfit them with a decent scope. But anyway, putting OYOA in this position (say CA was the sponsor), not only would it be a huge cost incurred by the hunters featured on the show that would have to purchase that brand but it might make viewers a little sour if that brand is continually showered on them. Then again, maybe when viewers see the sponsors, they tune that out if they aren't interested. It makes sense for CA to do their show with their guns because that's what they are selling, but OYOA isn't selling that, are we? A narrow focus on a handful of products? Nope...we are selling the OYO concept and whatever tools we use to get the job done should suffice, right? This is what I'm struggling with.

 

[rosco]

Food for thought, I use a Weatherby accumark, listed at dang near 2 grand.

 

[JohnCushman]

The gun isn't the 'star' of the show. The concept of the on your own hunting and public hunting is what stands out with the show. As long as you don't have to do a cheesy 'Wayne's World' type segment showing all your sponsors or do the Ted Nugent half hour infomercial about every product you use, then I don't see where what sort of rifle being used is an issue. I think that if a reputable company wants to support the show, then go for it.

 

[noharleyyet]

Custom rifles, IMO, are every bit as practical as taking a $1000 'green boxer' and sending it to Hill Country Accurizing for the full deal meal...maybe more practical. Just another tool in the same sense as a quality tent, superior glass, or functionable clothing. As wyodeehunter put it, we start out equipping our hunts as best we can and upgrade our 'tool' categories as we're able to. I don't think Fin implementing a custom rifle diminishes the message one iota.

.

 

[BuzzH]

I dont know, it depends on what the rifle company wants...

My problem is that most custom rifles are not made for the average hunting conditions that I face. To sell at the higher prices that usually means extreme accuracy designed for long range shooting.

Will the rifle company want the viewers to watch a bunch of good hunters, that know their quarry, have good stalking skills, etc. shoot game at 100 yards with their $1500 super accurate rifle?

Most viewers would look at that situation and say, "why would I need some fancy $1500 rifle to pound a deer at 100 yards?"

I'd think that the sponsor would also ask the same question...why am I advertising to a group of guys that would likely kill just as much game with an open sighted hand-me-down 30-06 as my $1500 super custom?

So, my question is, does OYOA turn into another "best of the west" where game is no longer stalked, hunting skills are no longer important, and all animals are plugged at 500-1200+ yards in an attempt to satisfy the custom rifle sponsorship and the viewers need for one???

I personally strive to get as close as possible to the animals I kill, and if you do that successfully, you dont need a fancy rig to fill a tag.

 

[Grizzley]

Fin...for what its worth...take the sponsorship, the gun, use it for a year then let the rest of us know if it is really worth all the money! That way we all win...isn't that what a part of this site is all about?
One hunter supporting another?
Giving the next guy a tip on how to make the hunt that much more enjoyable?

I guess that is what this sight has done for me...I used a $40 pair of bino's until Buschy introduced me to Swaro's. I used a $80 pack until you introduced me to MR. Both have made hunting that much more enjoyable yet much lighter in the wallet. Who knows...maybe I will be using a custom rifle in two or three years...I guess that depends on what I hear!

 

[Spitz]

I think the message the show portrays is about the hunting, not about the equipment. I would further argue that the success of the show is a result of the hunts being attainable for the average person, the quality information provided on how to go about doing the hunt on your own, and of course the quality of the film, personalities and hunts chosen.

I imagine a majority of your viewers don't have Leupold optics, Kennetrek boots, Denver Tent Co. tents or Federal premium ammunition. I think it would be silly for someone to be offended that you use a product that is out of their reach financially, because when it comes down to it, they're not watching the show because of the equipment you use. However, if you were to tout a $3500 rifle as being necessary to shoot an animal or were really shoving it into your viewers' faces, I could see how some may see you as a bit of a sell out. Quality is quality, but there are many different forms of it, especially in rifles.

If a custom gun manufacturer wanted to put their name on your show and you think their product is a quality one, I'd say go for it.

If you're really concerned I'll provide you my address and you can send a 300 RUM. I'll let you know if it receives my stamp of approval.