Rifles - Opinions wanted

[Big Fin]

ok you lost me with that last statement Big Fin--can you clarify?? are they an ammo/custom rifle shop????? if so I think you are going to have a conflict of interest at some point if they are an ammo/custom rifle shop with Federal-----anyway if you can clarify that would be nice

chris
_________

When I said "They", it was in reference to Buzz's comment about Winchester. Sorry about that. I should have said "Winchester is more of an ammo company and therefore proabably not interested in our show, due to Federal being a part of it."

The custom rifle company I am referring to as a potential sponsor is not in the ammo business.

This is good stuff. It is helping me find my way through the maze of options and possibilities.

 

[JoseCuervo]

My favorite posts are the ones where guys have a crappy picture of an elk they killed using their Mathews Reezen 7.0 Accelerator Bow with 32" axle to axle length and 80% let off and a LimbSaver® S-Coil Stabilizer while looking thru a Cobra Stealth Plus 5-Pin Bow Sight pushing a Easton Full Metal Jacket Arrow with X Nocks installed, Blazer vanes, and HIT inserts tipped with NAP Blood Runner™ expandable broadhead.

I don't think anybody would ever notice you selling out to The Man with some tasteful sponsors....

 

[MNHunter]

Fine. You can film my bighorn hunt this fall as I KNOW I'm going to draw. I'll use your rifle and ammo and wont complain

 

[BuzzH]

If you sign on with a custom gun maker, it might make good advertisement for that company to smoke a lope @ 400yrds

Just exactly what I talked about in my first post...the message, strategy, and hunting style changing to satisfy a sponsor.

I guess with antelope in particular, I bristle pretty easily. I see more plain BS and unethical behavior antelope hunting than all other species combined. People shooting too far, shooting at running antelope, etc.

Pronghorn are perhaps the most under-rated, and no question, the most mistreated big-game animals in North America.

They arent there for people to "warm up" their rifles on, they arent there to practice your shooting skills, they arent there for practice on shooting running game. I wish more hunters would show a whole lot more respect for Pronghorn...they are an unbelievable animal. What frustrates me is that I see the poor bastards out there this time of year scratching a living on sage brush in 50 MPH winds at -50 below wind chill temperatures all winter. They deserve better than to be shot at long range, running, etc. by some assclown who shows up once a year with a pocket full of tags, a trailer load of atv's, and his fancy rifle.

They are a classic spot and stalk animal and getting closer than 400 yards is so easy its pathetic. I think too many people put too much emphasis on the "need" to shoot longrange on antelope. The message should be that they are a perfect spot and stalk species and they dont need to be shot running or at long range.

Fin, thats one of the main reasons I really think OYOA is going the right direction, the fact that ethical and responsible hunting skills are highlighted more than shooting skills, in particular with antelope.

Sorry about the sidebar...

 

[schmalts]

Ones Ethics should not be judged on his shooting distance but should be his shooting ability.
Buzz, keep in mind some guys target shoot for a hobby and are very capable of doing the opposite of you just as effective. I wouldn't tell a F-class shooter he is unethical if he shoots an animal at 400yards when he practices day after day for 600 yard matches.
It is a matter of ethics VS ability when shooting long range and that has been discussed many times before
. Who would spend the money to own a custom rifle to shoot 100 yards at anything? Might as well use a smokepole.
Yes there are slob hunters who you describe, but some may think you opinionated about ones shooting abilities and use of high magnification scopes.
Bottom line as long as someone is effective at a reasonable yardage given the wind and hunting situation I wouldn't call them unethical.
I saw someone smoke an elk this year @ 600 yards, rolled it with one shot, no problem there. Kudos to him for his shooting ability as much as his hunting ability.

 

[Danvet]

Might as well give my opinion. The heart and soul of OYOA, in my eyes, is the idea that YOU study maps, read regulations, apply for permits, scout, make plans and decisions for YOUR hunt. If the result of the hunt is an opportunity for YOU to harvest an animal, it is because of the time and effort that YOU put into the hunt. Whether you use a custom rifle has no tarnishing affect on this scenario in my opinion. If one brings the cost of certain hunts or equipment into the mix, there are hunts that OYOA does now that a some, maybe most, of your audience cannot afford. Does that subtract from my enthusiasm for your show? No. To me, the hunting that you do portrays an accomplishment (plus or minus a kill) that you can feel in your gut, an accomplishment of which you can be proud and a memory that will be with you forever. It's not about the money, it's about using your skills, it's about comraderie, it's about being in God's great outdoors- you can get these things for dang near free. You can shoot whatever rifle you want, just keep the basis for the show real.

 

[noharleyyet]

My favorite posts are the ones where guys have a crappy picture of an elk they killed using their Mathews Reezen 7.0 Accelerator Bow with 32" axle to axle length and 80% let off and a LimbSaver® S-Coil Stabilizer while looking thru a Cobra Stealth Plus 5-Pin Bow Sight pushing a Easton Full Metal Jacket Arrow with X Nocks installed, Blazer vanes, and HIT inserts tipped with NAP Blood Runner™ expandable broadhead.

I don't think anybody would ever notice you selling out to The Man with some tasteful sponsors....

...you pushing for fire retardant placard sitka gear?

 

[JoseCuervo]

Ones Ethics should not be judged on his shooting distance but should be his shooting ability.
Buzz, keep in mind some guys target shoot for a hobby and are very capable of doing the opposite of you just as effective. I wouldn't tell a F-class shooter he is unethical if he shoots an animal at 400yards when he practices day after day for 600 yard matches.

LMAO off at you. You can't even call them a "Hunter", but just keep on referring to them as a "Shooter". And you don't call it "hunting", you call it "shooting". You pretty much just proved Buzz' point.....

And if you brag about posting "vapor trail videos" and suggest Randy do the same, then you have some seriously messed up ethics and of the vast majourity of the country's perception of ethics. People like you from back East that waste time learning to "shoot" 400 yards instead of learning how to hunt the animals out west are not exactly "ethical" and have no business being out West on My Public Lands.

I am betting Randy doesn't waste a lot of time listening to your suggestions.

 

[Carl]

Randy,

Provided that you like this rifle makers products, and they don't carry a strong existing TV reputation (ala Christensen Arms or Thomson Center), I would be entirely in favor of you picking up their sponsorship. A few reasons:

Despite the oft mentioned 97% of hunters who hunt without guides, I don't feel that your show has ever been about Joe Average, nor do I feel it should be. Folks have also mentioned that 10% of the hunters get 90% of the game, and while those numbers are obviously pulled out of a hat, the I feel the overarching concept holds. Your viewers may be distributed across the spectrum, but I feel you should continue to show the upper tier hunters and hunts. These hunters often have high end equipment, as you well know.

On the first season of the show, I know I saw Leica Geovids and a 80mm Swarovski Spotter, two items that retailed for around $4,500. The companies name may not have been on the sponsor board, but the product integration would probably be similar. Was there a backlash from you using products out of the average guys reach?

We are also all so used to sponsors for everything that, provided the product integration is done tastefully, which I'm sure with you it would be, I doubt that you'd hear much about it again. If they were asking you to change the bent of the show to suit them I doubt that you'd be considering them at all.

Regarding the hunters on your show being confident with a new rifle, it is a factor, but I don't feel a huge one. Considering the consistency of a well built custom rifle, and the short distances you restrict yourselves too due to the filming, it wouldn't worry me provided I was able to rattle a box of Federals through it prior to the hunt. It isn't a bow after all. I can understand a hunter not wanting to stray from an existing rifle on a big hunt for personal reasons like Buzz mentioned, but that mostly prevents any rifle sponsor.

Carl

 

[BuzzH]

Hey Schmalts,

So, who is OYOA show geared for F-class SHOOTERS or average HUNTERS?

Why gear a show for .001% of the F-class shooters that may also hunt? Theres already a ridiculous show called "best of the west" that covers that line of thinking.

A vast majority of DIY average working class hunters are not F-class shooters. OYOA is geard to the working class DIY hunter who likely doesnt have the resources or time to learn to shoot 400+ yards. Its wrong-headed to tell those type of people that you "need" to shoot 400+ at an antelope. What OYOA has shown, which I think is great, is that antelope are very stalkable and that you dont need anything special equipment wise if you know how to hunt.

I have the equipment and abilities to shoot 500 yards on game no problem. That same equipment and same ability doesnt not work at 200...100...or even 50 yards.

Using your logic I should be stretching shots just because I can and its a waste of my time and equipment because I'm not?

Whatever dude....

 

[Drake4]

People like you from back East that waste time learning to "shoot" 400 yards instead of learning how to hunt the animals out west are not exactly "ethical" and have no business being out West on My Public Lands.

I think you'd be surprised about the amount of hunters that would disagree with that comment. I'm just as confident at 400 yards as I am at 200 yards. That doesn't mean I still don't try to get as close as I can.

I'd trust the marksmenship of A LOT of hunters that I personally know "shooting" at 400 yards compared to the average Joe hunter at 200.

Try and tell Breaks Runner and his collection of game, that he isn't an "ethical" hunter. I've seen some of his posts and the distances he kills.

 

[JoseCuervo]

I think you'd be surprised about the amount of hunters that would disagree with that comment. I'm just as confident at 400 yards as I am at 200 yards. That doesn't mean I still don't try to get as close as I can.

I'd trust the marksmenship of A LOT of hunters that I personally know "shooting" at 400 yards compared to the average Joe hunter at 200.

Try and tell Breaks Runner and his collection of game, that he isn't an "ethical" hunter. I've seen some of his posts and the distances he kills.

When did Breaks Runner move back East? Do you really want somebody like Scmaltz thinking they have the skills and abilities of Breaks Runner?

 

[Goldtip]

Big Fin,

I think if you like the product (custom rifle) and it will be integrated tastefully into the show, then go ahead and use it and take their sponsorship. I agree with Buzz, that if guest shooters are then forced to use that companies custom gun on their hunt, then that could be an issue and it may interfere with your filming some of those hunts.

I don't think your use of specific equipment deters others from thinking they may be able to accomplish the same thing with different equipment. If it does, well then those folks just aint right in the head. I mean really, does anyone here or any of your viewers really believe that you accomplish the hunts you do, only because you drive a Nissan pickup, use a Davis tent and your packs are from MR? Especially the pickup.....hahaha.

None of the equipment I've seen you use have you ever given me the impression that you needed THAT equipment to accomplish your hunts. I say if you like the product and it would be some thing you'd like to use while hunting and it helps further your show than you should take it, with the caveat that your guest hunters may not necessarily use the same equipment on the hunts you film.

 

[Khunter]

I do not think the rifle makes much difference in the hunt outcome, so could care less what pays the bills for the OYOA shows in terms of rifle sponsorships. You get in reasonably close and Bam, dead animal if you have basic shooting skills. Makes not a lick of difference what you were holding in terms of the rifle maker if you did your job first as a hunter and second as a shooter. So my opinion is--who cares what rifle you use on the show, unless you intend to exaggerate the significance of that weapon choice on the outcome, which would definitely be a disservice the OYO hunter.

Now, sure, if you want to kill stuff at obscene yardages then, yes what you are holding will affect your ability to succeed, but assuming that is not a relevant issue in this thread. Personally, the most ridiculous thing I will see this week in Salt Lake (aside from some of the Htalker antics) is likely to be the guys selling equipment for and showing videos of animals being whacked from another zipcode. That is more sport shooting than hunting when done well.

 

[Oak]

Oak will testify that if I was into long range shooting you would see a 2010 episode where a net B&C antelope bites the dust at 350 yards. Just not our style. And, the footage at long distances sucks, plain and simple. And for our show, I want good footage.

OYOA wouldn't exist if it turned into one of those long range shows. I'm not sure if my dad would ever manage to kill anything at those ranges, even with the most expensive rifle and best optics known to man. On the upside, he could become Federal's in-field munitions tester.

These guys are being darned modest about Fin's ability behind the rifle. I witnessed one heck of a shot on a Montana whitetail last fall, with me all the while "gently" urging Fin to shoot.

That being said, I also saw Fin insist on sneaking closer when we had a really nice pronghorn broadside at under 200 yards and he had his .257 all set up on the bipod. We ended up getting under 150, and getting some phenomenal footage in the process.

 

[Bio Bo]

LMAO off at you. You can't even call them a "Hunter", but just keep on referring to them as a "Shooter". And you don't call it "hunting", you call it "shooting". You pretty much just proved Buzz' point.....

And if you brag about posting "vapor trail videos" and suggest Randy do the same, then you have some seriously messed up ethics and of the vast majourity of the country's perception of ethics. People like you from back East that waste time learning to "shoot" 400 yards instead of learning how to hunt the animals out west are not exactly "ethical" and have no business being out West on My Public Lands.

I am betting Randy doesn't waste a lot of time listening to your suggestions.

And I'm betting no one here wastes a lot of time listening to you... w/ such polarizing comments. You really are a piece-o-work sometimes.
Whatever gives you the idea that "people from back east" aren't good hunters or good shots or that they have no business being out west on your public lands? That sort of mentality is more a part of the problem, than the solution, senor cuervo...
As others have said, "sorry about the sidebar." I must've lost my head...

 

[The Hedgehog]

If you like the sponsor, go for it, custom or not.

As for the sniping comments.. if there's lead in the air, there's danger.

 

[MN Public Hunter]

It's tax season...shouldn't you be worrying more about those right now...

 

[schmalts]

And I'm betting no one here wastes a lot of time listening to you... w/ such polarizing comments. You really are a piece-o-work sometimes.
Whatever gives you the idea that "people from back east" aren't good hunters or good shots or that they have no business being out west on your public lands? That sort of mentality is more a part of the problem, than the solution, senor cuervo...
As others have said, "sorry about the sidebar." I must've lost my head...

Well said. As this website becomes more popular Hoser becomes less credible with his constant put downs, but every site has it's troll.

Buzz, you know what I'm saying, not every hunter shoots like crap, and not every hunter that can shoot long distance does it just because. I myself wont do it unless the wind is dead calm because i know my limits. but there is times that trying to stalk closer might blow a stalk when i know I can do just as well where i am at certain times. But I don't think 400 yards in the right conditions are far, but I am not making a TV show either.
There are guys dressed in buckskin hauling Kentucky long rifles around that would say some are over the top for using a scope or a range finder. To each is own

 

[Nemont]

Put me firmly in the category of: I don't really care. I enjoy the show regardless of which rifle you are going to use. As long as you stay away from you standing in front of the cameras saying, "I can't say enough about these acme rifles, they practically shoot themselves and in order to be just like me you also need to shoot these amazing rifles" it would be fine.



Nemont