Removing Doug Sayer from Wild Sheep Foundation for Idaho political strong-arming

[Elkmagnet]

Can I ask what is this thread trying accomplishing for wild sheep in general. All this does is feed the continuing in-fighting in the hunting community and does not help any effort with helping conservation it only fractures the groups even more at the detriment to wild sheep. All I know is that bighorn sheep populations in Idaho have been declining for many years. We need to put our energy into putting sheep on the mountain instead of fighting each other.

Thanks

Bighorn sheep are not in a vacuum. No one should be solely focused on improving bighorn populations regardless of the cost to sportsman. We should be working to improve sheep populations by doing things the right way.
I'm not OK with the political strong arm tactics.
I'm not OK with black mailing our fish and game department.
I'm not OK with stacking the deck against Idaho Sportsman in our own Fish and Game Commission.
I'm also not OK with further degrading the north America model of wildlife conservation for the sole purpose of funding WSF when I see very little results.

All I know is that bighorn sheep populations in Idaho have been declining for many years

There is no proof that Doug and his $$$$ are putting more sheep on the MTN. However there is proof that he is willing to lie about it in order to get auction tags mandated. WSF can claim to remain neutral on auction tags but when you are the beneficiary of such tags to the tune of $100,000+ there is no such thing as neutral.

This thread is about not railroading the sportsman of Idaho with things they have repeatedly said they don't want!
Doug Sayer's actions and WSF's reaction are a black eye that will drive good men away from sheep conservation and keep many good men from doing good things to help sheep.
That's squarely on their shoulders not on the shoulders of the people who refuse to ignore it.

 

[huntid73]

+1 elkmagnet, well said. The sportsmen of Idaho have approved license fee increases, yet for some reason, the auction tag issue keeps coming up, which was shot down by the hunters of Idaho. If speaking up and doing our part by creating push-back against some corrupt politics is considered "in-fighting," then I think we have lost sight of the fact that our elected officials and elected board members should be held accountable.

 

[406LIFE]

Agreed, elkmagnet said it very well. To say "does not help any effort with helping conservation " as

3/4 Slam Ram indicates, is simply not true. Many of us are unwilling to blindly follow a leader in a conservation organization. If we were then what we would accomplish in the future would be in jeopardy and our successes begin to dim. I am certain that Roosevelt, Grinnell, and others did not agree on all things and yet they were still able to establish the B&C and other organizations. I do not agree with everything Shane Mahoney says, but yet we are still able to work together (however limited that may be, he doesn't even know my name) towards a common goal. This situation is not small, and not limited. If it isn't addressed then what will we have in the future?

 

[The Hedgehog]

drain the swamp

 

[Elkmagnet]

Swamp the drains!

 

[grandejuan]

It seems to me that the 40% decline in sheep numbers in Idaho should really have gotten attention quite a while ago. Sayer and his buddies could easily buy up some of the domestic sheep grazing permits and get those critters out of the bighorn ecosystems. He would be regarded as a savior to the bighorn. We would be singing his praises instead of cursing the guy out. A good point would be to help get rid of the sheep experimental station just south of Monida pass. I know it part of the Agriculture Dept., but if he has the power and $$$ that he is using to steamroll the hunters in Idaho it shouldn't be a major problem. But then again maybe he really has balls of jello instead of brass and doesn't want to pick on the the wool growers because they are to tough for him to handle, born and bred out on the range, not a techno geek like himself. My opinion. GJ

 

[JoseCuervo]

It seems to me that the 40% decline in sheep numbers in Idaho should really have gotten attention quite a while ago. Sayer and his buddies could easily buy up some of the domestic sheep grazing permits and get those critters out of the bighorn ecosystems. He would be regarded as a savior to the bighorn. We would be singing his praises instead of cursing the guy out. A good point would be to help get rid of the sheep experimental station just south of Monida pass. I know it part of the Agriculture Dept., but if he has the power and $$$ that he is using to steamroll the hunters in Idaho it shouldn't be a major problem. But then again maybe he really has balls of jello instead of brass and doesn't want to pick on the the wool growers because they are to tough for him to handle, born and bred out on the range, not a techno geek like himself. My opinion. GJ

Keep in mind who has a 50/50 chance of being the next governor. Ain't no way Sayer is going to get crossways with the next governor over domestic sheep, when he has already shown he enjoys influencing the Governor's office.


If you want to support Wild Sheep in Idaho, keep in mind there are several organizations that are actively saving Wild Sheep, removing domestic sheep, all without having to fund Banquets for Bourbon and Cigars, nobody has to wear Realtree Dress Shirts with Cowboy boots, and spend time figuring out who is travelling to which national show to wear more fancy camo dress shirts.

Do some google research on who has made progress, and fund those groups.

 

[6speed]

All I know is that bighorn sheep populations in Idaho have been declining for many years.

Can I ask what WSF is accomplishing for wild sheep in general.

Fixed it for ya.

The infighting is generated by the vast majority of Idaho sportsmen coming to the realization that an organization once viewed as upstanding and ethical has been stabbing them in the back for years, letting SFW take the heat, and failing to do what their membership dues were intended for while putting sheep heads on the wall of Doug Sayer, then claiming everything is dandy as long as they claim to help sheep numbers...

 

[1_pointer]

Anyone know if BHA has sent a recruiting headhunter/package to Bryan yet? Seems like his knowledge, skills, and abilities would serve that outfit well and considering his quasi persona nongrata status with ID WSF.

 

[Oak]

Can I ask what is this thread trying accomplishing for wild sheep in general. All this does is feed the continuing in-fighting in the hunting community and does not help any effort with helping conservation it only fractures the groups even more at the detriment to wild sheep. All I know is that bighorn sheep populations in Idaho have been declining for many years. We need to put our energy into putting sheep on the mountain instead of fighting each other.

Thanks

Respectfully, the action that "fractures the groups even more at the detriment to wild sheep" is the inaction of national WSF and IDWSF to acknowledge that what the WSF chairman did was ethically questionable, appears to involve conflicts of interest, and compromises the integrity of the organizations. Instead, they chose to give the chairman a pass for simply exercising his 1A rights, while also attempting to oust an IDWSF board member for practicing his own 1A rights by voicing his opposition to the position. Have you ever heard the expression "perception is reality?" Well the perception is that the WSF chairman covertly used his political power to advance policy which would potentially benefit himself and his organization, and which was overwhelmingly opposed by sportsmen of Idaho. The organizations would have done well to show a little humility and admitted wrongdoing when the story broke. You cannot expect to retain or grow support of sportsmen when you treat them like that.

I have spoken with the WSF president about this issue, and I had WSF board members call me and ask my opinion on the topic. I will tell you that I expect you will see some changes in the organization in the next week or so due to this issue. I hope that those members who have concerns about what happened attend the membership meeting next week and respectfully relay their thoughts. As a member of WSF, I intend to do so myself. To continue to defend their inaction and assert that nothing nefarious occurred is absurd, IMO.

Wild Sheep Foundation does a whole lot of great work for wild sheep. Their most important and effective accomplishments are those that happen behind the scenes, which you never hear about. They have and continue to help me immensely on issues in Colorado, and I will continue to support them in their efforts to effect policies that benefit wild sheep. I am disappointed but not surprised to see the actions of a few from two organizations reflect poorly on all conservation organizations. I felt the need to state my opinion, but I am finished with this discussion. Hope to see a few of you next week in Reno.

 

[Josh Kuntz]

Well said Oak. I perhaps naively believe that 99% of sportsmen and conservation groups are in the same boat of trying to do what is best for wildlife and hunting. But on occassion, either through ignorance or greed, some folks start shooting holes in that boat. If they shoot a hole once, forgiveness and education is my preferred recourse. If they shoot a second hole, I say it's time to toss their ass out of the boat.

Sayer is simply shooting too many holes in the boat and hurting sportsmen and WSF. I sincerely hope WSF survives this, they do lots of good work and have some great folks in their ranks.

 

[406LIFE]

Well said Oak. I perhaps naively believe that 99% of sportsmen and conservation groups are in the same boat of trying to do what is best for wildlife and hunting. But on occassion, either through ignorance or greed, some folks start shooting holes in that boat. If they shoot a hole once, forgiveness and education is my preferred recourse. If they shoot a second hole, I say it's time to toss their ass out of the boat.

Sayer is simply shooting too many holes in the boat and hurting sportsmen and WSF. I sincerely hope WSF survives this, they do lots of good work and have some great folks in their ranks.

I think this boat analogy works well to help people understand why sometimes there is infighting? I mean, who wants to get kicked out of the boat when the are sharks circling?

 

[brymoore]

Another great opinion piece from Idaho State Journal.

http://idahostatejournal.com/opinion/columns/idaho-fish-and-game-scandal-heats-up/article_5b43a32f-a4fa-5728-b5aa-59bbd3260ced.html

Idaho Fish and Game scandal heats up

A movement has been started in the State of Idaho that is finally coming to light concerning the management and funding of the wildlife in the State of Idaho. This movement was brought to the light of day by the Idaho Wildlife Federation in Boise through the use of the Freedom of Information Act. The Idaho Wildlife Federation was able to get copies of emails between legislators and a wealthy sportsman about the auction tag bill and the firing of two Idaho Fish and Game commissioners whose first terms were about to expire. The commissioners were invited to reapply for a second term but told that their applications would not be approved by the Senate Resources and Environmental Committee because of pressure from the wealthy sportsman and certain members of the Senate Resources and Environmental Committee (Senate Chairman Steve Bair) so that new commissioners could be appointed who would support the wealthy sportsman and Steve Bairs’ position on auction tags. Right now the number of tags is limited to two big horn sheep tags, but the wealthy sportsman and legislators wants an increase to 12 tags that cover all the big game species in Idaho. This will set a precedent which will allow the Senate of the State of Idaho to require additional tags whenever the politically motivated legislators want to increase or change the policy of how big game is managed in Idaho. At all Idaho Department of Fish and Game public meetings around the State of Idaho the public opinion of increasing auction tags has met with intense opposition by the majority of attendees.

The word floating around the State House is that our core group of esteemed Senators would very much like to end up with a system of auctioning tags like that used in Utah. The Utah system has disenfranchised the average citizen of Utah from their ability to hunt big game in the State of Utah. They have been priced out of the market by a system that gives tags to organizations like the Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife, who then turn around and auction off hundreds of coveted tags at public events, such as the Salt Lake City Sportsmen’s Expo each year. Sixty percent of the funds raised are retained by the organization and forty percent is turned over to the Utah Game and Fish for the management of the wildlife. All hunting in Utah is now controlled hunt only. A person starting to hunt in Utah for elk at the age of 12 could only draw four elk tags in that state in his lifetime, if he is able to draw an elk tag at all, unless he has the money to buy one of the auction tags!

Is this what we want for us and our children and all future generations? There is a lot of wildlife of trophy quality in Utah. In spite of this fact, many Utah hunters are turning to Idaho because there are no opportunities left that they can afford in Utah. If we establish this kind of system in Idaho, we will quickly end up like Utah. The problem is we will not have anywhere to turn when this happens here. Do not doubt for a minute that this will happen. The plans have already been set in motion by the Idaho Senate Resources and Environmental Committee chaired by Steve Bair! The wealthy sportsman has been spending a lot of money on political donations at the state level in order to get increased auction tags in Idaho as well as influence the appointment of Idaho Fish and Game Commissioners sympathetic to his views.

When the 1938 Initiative passed it, was specifically for the purpose of removing the management of the wildlife of Idaho from the political arena. Since that time the Legislature has been trying to regain control of the resource. It is time for every hunter and angler to notify the Legislature that we will not accept their interference with the operation of the Idaho Fish and Game Commission. There have been no problems in the past with the management by this commission, which has been following the mandate given in 1938. That is 78 years of operation. This is not the time to politicize our wildlife management. The only thing that we can do to stop hijacking of our state’s resource for the enrichment of the few and to the detriment of all of the citizens of this State is to let these self-serving legislators hear from you individually. Tell them of your opposition of giving any tag to anyone for private sale be they landowners or wealthy sportsmen. You should also target the ringleaders of this atrocity and let them know that when they are next up for election, we will not support them and intend to support their opposition at the next election. This is ultimately the only language that these multi-term self-righteous legislators understand. Please do not sit by and allow this to happen. Act now! I was president of the Safari Club Idaho Chapter during the Bear Initiative of 1996 and very active in the defeat of that attempt to end bear hunting in Idaho. I did not defeat the initiative by myself. I had the support of the hunters, trappers and all sportsmen of this state when this happened. Together we blew the animal rights activists out of the State of Idaho. We beat them so badly that they have not come back to Idaho since their 1996 defeat! Sportsmen of Idaho beat the state animal rights organization, The Humane Society of the United States, by a whopping 67% to 33% of the popular vote! We can do it again working together.

I am asking each of you to investigate immediately what I am saying. Go on the internet to the Idaho Wildlife Federation website and see for yourself what is happening. While you are at it please access the letter to Sen. Brent Hill, President Pro Tempore, which was signed by 15 past Idaho Fish and Game Commissioners asking for the removal of Senator Steve Bair as Chairman of the Senate Resources and Environmental Committee to find out the truth of what has been going on for the past two years. If Idaho hunters and fishers do not step up now, there can be no doubt of the outcome for future generations of Idaho sportsmen. I may not have too many seasons left in me, but I do have children and grandchildren who I want to have the same opportunities that I did.

I realize that most of you have never heard of me. That you may not believe what I am saying or think that I have my own gain at heart. I have devoted many years of my charitable time to organizations such as the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation (15 years), Idaho Wildlife Council (7 years), Safari Club Idaho Chapter (20 years), Southeastern Idaho Mule Deer Foundation (15 years), and the National Wild Turkey Foundation (12 years). I am a 70 year native of Idaho and during that time I have hunted the length and breadth of this State.

Dave Capell is a longtime Pocatello resident and a graduate of Pocatello High School and Idaho State University. He is a former Army captain and has been an accountant with the firm Engleson, Capell & Engleson for the past 43 years.

 

[huntid73]

This article that brymoore has shared just got shared by the Eastman's Hunting Journal on their Facebook page. Sounds like word is spreading about this issue.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Even Eastman's can smell the stench from Wyoming. Hopefully there choking on it in Bozeman.

 

[WapitiBob]

Can I ask what is this thread trying accomplishing for wild sheep in general. All this does is feed the continuing in-fighting in the hunting community and does not help any effort with helping conservation it only fractures the groups even more at the detriment to wild sheep. All I know is that bighorn sheep populations in Idaho have been declining for many years. We need to put our energy into putting sheep on the mountain instead of fighting each other.

Thanks

SFW says the same thing when their ethics are questioned.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Corey Jacobson's Facebook post is spot on. It is also receiving some good response's. Including some from IDWSF board members

https://www.facebook.com/corey.jacobsen.73

What is it that the majority of Idaho sportsmen want? I think this is the real question, and the real issue at the heart of the auction tag/bonus point/landowner tag debate. Unfortunately, the system that is in place, and the political powers that are in place, are attempting to remove the sportsmen's voice from the equation.

I am absolutely open to the idea of auction tags to bring revenue into the department that will allow us to improve habitat and better manage wildlife. However, when those who are aggressively - yet secretly - pushing personal agendas rooted deeply in greed, I am opposed 100%. Utah has done great things for wildlife, but that has been the by-product of their real agenda, which was to get hands on premium tags for a select few. No one can argue that there were unethical and corrupt shenanigans surrounding Utah's system for several years. When the system begins like that, it will be surrounded by controversy and opposition from average sportsmen, and the trust of the sportsmen will never be regained.

If our Legislators were willing to sit down with sportsmen and sportsmen groups to discuss ideas that would benefit wildlife and sportsmen, I think issues like this would be met with MUCH LESS opposition. However, backdoor meetings, questionable firings of commissioners, personal agendas, and last-minute injections of secret programs behind the backs of average sportsmen does nothing but paint a masterpiece of corruption and greed.

The IDF&G Commission was established to remove politics from wildlife management. That was an incredibly noble and valuable concept, and it has worked well for decades. However, when one Legislator is able to influence the removal of 29% of the commission through emails sent to the person in charge of appointing the commission, that is corruption. Add in the fact that the two commissioners who were removed stood up to the greedy Legislators AND represented the voice of average sportsmen in the state, and we have a MAJOR PROBLEM.

This issue isn't about auction tags or bonus points or landowner tags. This issue is about politics making decisions that affect the citizens of the state, completely against the will of the citizens of the state. If a system is forced down our throats in this manner, it will not end well for sportsmen, period. If sportsmen are allowed to craft the system and present it to Legislators for their sustaining vote, it could work. But as long as politics hold ultimate power and control over the issue, without appropriate checks and balances that will keep the control in the hands of those affected, the list of winners will be very short, and it won't include the average sportsmen of Idaho.

I propose leaving exaggerated numbers and untenable "facts" and all discussions of Utah ( ) out of this discussion, and working to recognize the heart of the real issue here. I think most of us would be on the same page and be able to unitedly force change in a way that will benefit ALL sportsmen for generations to come. So, back to my original question several paragraphs ago....what is it that sportsmen want? What are you willing to give up to preserve what you want? How do we regain control of the management of wildlife, which is what the Commission was original established to provide?

Please share this with as many of your friends as possible...

 

[Elkmagnet]

I wonder if Tom Fischer (aka. 3/4 slam ram) missed our replies or if IDWSF silenced him before his foot became permanently lodged?

 

[6speed]

Any word on how the membership meeting went? Will there be changes?

 

[brymoore]

Sayer's out as chair, remains on the board. No discussion about the change or Sayer.