Remington Actions

[ImBillT]

Remington are terrible if anyone wants to dispose of the junk I will happily pay scrap prices for them.

I would say there is a reason that most custom actions are a Remington clones. saying a trued Remington is the same prices as a custom are a little ways off its like 250 or less to true a Remington. I have bought plenty of 700 actions under 350 dollars

Depends on what operations are included “truing”, and on what you value in a 700 clone.

I was in my last non-stainless 700 for $306. My last stainless 700 was under $400. I think it was under $350. Call it $350. Sell your bolt and upgrade to PT&G, that’s another $150. We’re at $500. “True” it for $250. Now we’re at $750 and we have no bottom metal and a Remington trigger.

A $750 PT&G B-12 is stainless, comes with a FLUTED PT&G bolt, a superior recoil lug, AND a picatinny rail, plus it is built for longer cartridges than a 700 S/A. An $800 Stiller scout is similar, has what may be a longer ejection port than the B-12, and a side bolt release, which allows longer cartridges and cheaper triggers.

Better yet, for $729 you can get a Christensen in stainless, cerakoted, with a one-piece fluted bolt, skeletonized bolt handle, bottom metal($200 value), extended magazine box, side bolt release AND a darn good trigger!!!

In my opinion, a factory 700 action can be a cheap starting point for an excellent rifle, but I would either use the action mostly as-is, or buy something better. It doesn’t take long before you’ve spent more for less.

My last three 700 builds have been to mig(not tig) the bolt handle and dremel with a carbide burr for better bolt timing, and add a Wolf extra power firing pin spring. That’s all I’ve done to the action. One of the three got a trigger upgrade, but for hunting rifles I like the X-Mark pro just fine once it’s adjusted(can require some serious solvents). Two of the three got custom barrels. Two got McMillan stocks, and one got an H&S. All three got chambered, or rechambered, and threaded/fitted by a very meticulous machinist.

If I was going to pay very much at all for action work, I would just buy a Christensen, and in fact, that’s my plan for my next build. I’m a HUGE fan of a 700 for custom/semi-custom build, but really, offer me a “trued” 700 with a PT&G bolt for $750, or a Christensen or Stiller for $750, and I won’t be picking the 700.

On the other hand, give me stainless 700 for $350, ad an $8 spring, and 15 minutes in the garage to fix the bolt, and I can pay for a Krieger blank with the price difference. It’s not equal to a custom action, or even a Christensen in every way, but generally speaking, its inferiorities are minor and its accuracy potential is essentially equal.

 

[antelopedundee]

Remington are terrible if anyone wants to dispose of the junk I will happily pay scrap prices for them.

I would say there is a reason that most custom actions are a Remington clones. saying a trued Remington is the same prices as a custom are a little ways off its like 250 or less to true a Remington. I have bought plenty of 700 actions under 350 dollars

Years ago they were available under $350 and so were complete rifles. Many custom actions are in the Remington footprint simply because there are waayyy more Remington 700s than almost any centerfire rifle that you can think of. You need so many of an item in order for the aftermarket folks to consider supplying stuff for your line.

 

[antelopedundee]

In most circumstances their “product” is TREMENDOUSLY better than buying an off the shelf Remington, and probably better than almost anything off the shelf. I’m only referring the action itself, and how necessary things like trying the face, squaring the threads, bushing the firing pin, sleeving the bolt, and other such machining operations included in “blueprinting”, and I’m only referencing them in terms of accuracy potential. I’m also excluding the occasional terrible action.

Back to their “product”. No one buys a Remington 700, disassembles it themselves, takes the action to a gunsmith to have it blueprinted, then re-assembles all of the original parts. Their “product” is not simply a blueprinted action. When you have a good gunsmith do an excellent job chambering and fitting a custom barrel from a good maker, and then you properly bed it and fit it to a quality stock, properly mount a good scope, use top reloading components, good dies, good reloading technique, and learn to shoot, then I’m not convinced that whether or not the gunsmith blueprinted the action is going to make a huge difference. There are the occasional actions that are pretty darn bad and which might require work.

I’m not at all saying that an off the shelf Remington is going to shoot great. Im also not saying that there aren’t significant advantages to custom actions other than pure accuracy potential. I’m simply saying that I’m not convinced that most 700 actions, the action itself, requires machining to get them to shoot with custom actions. Everything else has to be just as good as a custom benchrest rifle to get it to shoot like a custom benchrest rifle.

As far as off the shelf goes, I would only say that a 40X or a Sako Benchrest is really at that level out of the box.

I never considered bushing the firing pin or sleeving the bolt as necessary steps in truing a Remington, since most of mine are for hunting. I use the word truing instead of blueprinting as blueprinting implies making the dimensions exactly as they are on the blueprint. Kinda hard to do if any dimensions are undersize. Important things to do to factory rifle it's going to stay that way. Lap the lugs, re-crown the barrel and bed it. And of course adjust the trigger. No need to pull the barrel. For customizing with a new barrel I'd add replace or reface the recoil lug and maybe true the threads. I'd add to have the bolt handle put in its proper position. It may extract ok with mild loads, but with hot loads you're screwed.

One big difference is you can lift and cycle the bolt on a custom action with your little finger. Not so with a 700.

I have 7 of the left hand 700s so I really have nothing against them. My last 3 RR series actions will all need to have the bolt handle repositioned.

 

[Archer86]

Years ago they were available under $350 and so were complete rifles. Many custom actions are in the Remington footprint simply because there are waayyy more Remington 700s than almost any centerfire rifle that you can think of. You need so many of an item in order for the aftermarket folks to consider supplying stuff for your line.

I was referring to complete rifles I have never just bought a bare action usually buy a complete rifle and part out what I don't need. Never paid over 350 got one for 250 last year for a build for my next up and coming hunter. I have though about a custom action at times but I can't out shoot a Remington so why bother.

 

[antelopedundee]

Depends on what operations are included “truing”, and on what you value in a 700 clone.

I was in my last non-stainless 700 for $306. My last stainless 700 was under $400. I think it was under $350. Call it $350. Sell your bolt and upgrade to PT&G, that’s another $150. We’re at $500. “True” it for $250. Now we’re at $750 and we have no bottom metal and a Remington trigger.

A $750 PT&G B-12 is stainless, comes with a FLUTED PT&G bolt, a superior recoil lug, AND a picatinny rail, plus it is built for longer cartridges than a 700 S/A. An $800 Stiller scout is similar, has what may be a longer ejection port than the B-12, and a side bolt release, which allows longer cartridges and cheaper triggers.

Better yet, for $729 you can get a Christensen in stainless, cerakoted, with a one-piece fluted bolt, skeletonized bolt handle, bottom metal($200 value), extended magazine box, side bolt release AND a darn good trigger!!!

In my opinion, a factory 700 action can be a cheap starting point for an excellent rifle, but I would either use the action mostly as-is, or buy something better. It doesn’t take long before you’ve spent more for less.

My last three 700 builds have been to mig(not tig) the bolt handle and dremel with a carbide burr for better bolt timing, and add a Wolf extra power firing pin spring. That’s all I’ve done to the action. One of the three got a trigger upgrade, but for hunting rifles I like the X-Mark pro just fine once it’s adjusted(can require some serious solvents). Two of the three got custom barrels. Two got McMillan stocks, and one got an H&S. All three got chambered, or rechambered, and threaded/fitted by a very meticulous machinist.

If I was going to pay very much at all for action work, I would just buy a Christensen, and in fact, that’s my plan for my next build. I’m a HUGE fan of a 700 for custom/semi-custom build, but really, offer me a “trued” 700 with a PT&G bolt for $750, or a Christensen or Stiller for $750, and I won’t be picking the 700.

On the other hand, give me stainless 700 for $350, ad an $8 spring, and 15 minutes in the garage to fix the bolt, and I can pay for a Krieger blank with the price difference. It’s not equal to a custom action, or even a Christensen in every way, but generally speaking, its inferiorities are minor and its accuracy potential is essentially equal.

Why would you mig weld the bolt handle on instead of tig weld it on unless that was more readily available? Since I have to send it out, I send it to a tig welder.
I've replaced the 24# firing pin spring with a Wolff 32# on a couple.

 

[cahunter805]

Why would you mig weld the bolt handle on instead of tig weld it on unless that was more readily available? Since I have to send it out, I send it to a tig welder.
I've replaced the 24# firing pin spring with a Wolff 32# on a couple.

I think he is welding more material to the actual bolt handle and building up the mechanical camming area to get more extraction.

Plenty of very accurate rifles are built on factory 700 actions. A properly setup and dialed in barrel chambered properly is much more important than some truing to the action.

 

[PopcornSutton]

Lively discussion. Remington's have their popularity for a reason. It changed the face of benchrest. Walker did a lot of testing that still stands today as the proven design. Only a 1911 and an AR has the aftermarket industry equal to a Remington. But once into mass production, things happen. Sure, there are 700s out there that shoot fantastic. There are 700s that are typical of a mass produced rifle, MOA is about as good as it gets.

I have been in Clay Spencer's shop, he had a pile of Remington takeoff barrels where people sent him a new Remington still in the box for him to build a rifle off of. I have shot benchrest for 30+ years, group, score, 600 and 1000 yard, and have seen many Remingtons shoot great. But most all of them have had work done to them, to one degree or another. All these alterations proven over the years have been carried over into not only Remington clones, but other custom actions.

Buying a clone action gets you many features out of the box over a out of the box Remington. Good bolt to action clearance, a trigger hanger instead of pinned, a properly timed bolt and primary extraction (the trigger hanger plays another role in bolt timing and pin fall), and even in a single shot if you want one. The action is true and square, recoil lugs are surface ground, tapped scope base screws are in the right place, proper fitting firing pin to bolt face, even contact in the bolt lugs, etc.

To each his own. As I wrote before, accuracy potential is an individual thing. Top accuracy doesn't come cheap, and a rifle isn't the only component to top accuracy.

 

[antelopedundee]

I think he is welding more material to the actual bolt handle and building up the mechanical camming area to get more extraction.

Plenty of very accurate rifles are built on factory 700 actions. A properly setup and dialed in barrel chambered properly is much more important than some truing to the action.

That's how some folks do it. I believe that Greg Tannel used to. He stopped doing that service because it wasn't profitable enough to "do it right". Getting the bolt handle in the right spot is the biggest thing. As far as truing I ask the smith to check a few things and correct if necessary. When you buy a custom action all of those things are expected to be done during the manufacturing process, most likely by being careful during the CNC step. I have 2 bolts that I'm going to send out to have the handle re-welded in its proper place. Even as it is they extract fine unless the loads are too hot.

 

[ImBillT]

Why would you mig weld the bolt handle on instead of tig weld it on unless that was more readily available? Since I have to send it out, I send it to a tig welder.
I've replaced the 24# firing pin spring with a Wolff 32# on a couple.

Because that’s what I have. I’m not spending money on a Remington bolt handle. If something is wrong enough that I can’t fix it myself readily, then I’ll just buy a PT&G bolt.

@cahunter805 got it right. I just add material at the camming surface and then remove it till it works well. It was only necessary on one, but all three extract better now. I run a wet rag through the bolt body, and wrap it around the handle leaving only the camming surface exposed, and clamp the bolt in a pot of water. Might be excessive precaution considering how little I’m adding. I’m just saying that you don’t have to take a Remington action to someone with a million dollar machine shop for it to be good platform, especially for a hunting rifle, while at the same time saying, that if you want what a lot of machining operations can do, you’re better off buying a custom action that having your Remington machined on.

 

[blacksheep]

I built a 700 about 3 years ago. I started with a factory magnum long action receiver. I had the receiver trued, bolt fluted and a sako extractor installed. As for the barrel, at that time wait timed from most of the big names were 6-12 months out. I called Douglas barrels in Cross Lanes West Virginia and had a premium XX barrel made to my specifications in about 2 weeks. I ordered an AG composites stock, a Timney trigger and Remington bottom metal. I sent the barrel and bolt to LRI for fluting and barrel threading. I took all of my parts to Eric at Helix gunsmithing in Arnold Missouri and he did all of the action truing and assembly. It then went out for cerakoting. After it was all said and done I had about $2,500-3,000 in the rifle minus the scope. All I can say is that it was well worth it. It is chambered in 7mm rem mag and it is a real shooter. At our local range we have 6" steel spinners out at 400 yds. I hit them every time. No misses. My buddy says that it is not fun anymore because of its extreme accuracy. It shoots 1/2 to 3/4 MOA all day long. I chose to go this route for a super accurate light weight western gun for elk and it definitely paid off. I killed my first elk with it 2020 with a 315 yd shot. I get that you are going to find a bone stock action or rifle that will shoot this well, especially with all of the technology that is available. I just tried to remove all of the variables that I could.

blacksheep

 

[cahunter805]

That's how some folks do it. I believe that Greg Tannel used to. He stopped doing that service because it wasn't profitable enough to "do it right". Getting the bolt handle in the right spot is the biggest thing. As far as truing I ask the smith to check a few things and correct if necessary. When you buy a custom action all of those things are expected to be done during the manufacturing process, most likely by being careful during the CNC step. I have 2 bolts that I'm going to send out to have the handle re-welded in its proper place. Even as it is they extract fine unless the loads are too hot.

Every RR action I’ve seen has had 0% primary extraction. I always get the handle retimed by Dan at Accutig. It’s amazing how well a properly timed bolt works.

 

[noharleyyet]

Every RR action I’ve seen has had 0% primary extraction. I always get the handle retimed by Dan at Accutig. It’s amazing how well a properly timed bolt works.

Have had 6 ea 700's...timing seemed ok but did have one rough chamber that captured a fired case . . . made me crazy til a good smith diagnosed and remedied. They are all ocd accurate...only two haven't been squared, both identical 257 wby mags, but they shoot just as well as the 4 that have...one has been Mickey'fied and bedded...the other is bone stock. Both wear VX3HD 3.5x10x40 Firedot CDS...Ken Jr has the OEM and a chitload of factory ammo that it likes.

I like 700's and Sako for bolts...

 

[ImBillT]

I built a 700 about 3 years ago. I started with a factory magnum long action receiver. I had the receiver trued, bolt fluted and a sako extractor installed. As for the barrel, at that time wait timed from most of the big names were 6-12 months out. I called Douglas barrels in Cross Lanes West Virginia and had a premium XX barrel made to my specifications in about 2 weeks. I ordered an AG composites stock, a Timney trigger and Remington bottom metal. I sent the barrel and bolt to LRI for fluting and barrel threading. I took all of my parts to Eric at Helix gunsmithing in Arnold Missouri and he did all of the action truing and assembly. It then went out for cerakoting. After it was all said and done I had about $2,500-3,000 in the rifle minus the scope. All I can say is that it was well worth it. It is chambered in 7mm rem mag and it is a real shooter. At our local range we have 6" steel spinners out at 400 yds. I hit them every time. No misses. My buddy says that it is not fun anymore because of its extreme accuracy. It shoots 1/2 to 3/4 MOA all day long. I chose to go this route for a super accurate light weight western gun for elk and it definitely paid off. I killed my first elk with it 2020 with a 315 yd shot. I get that you are going to find a bone stock action or rifle that will shoot this well, especially with all of the technology that is available. I just tried to remove all of the variables that I could.

blacksheep

How much did the action work cost, and what was done to the action?

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I think a lot of people think the custom clones always come out perfect too and i've been surprised reading stuff and watching videos from folks like Taylor Stratton and Alex Wheeler about how they go through every action and tune things up. Even a lot of the top end customs don't always have perfect uniform lug contact or benefit from timing and tuning the firing control.

If building from scratch, i sure like features like integral recoil lugs, rails, and consistent headspacing that allows you to order shouldered pre-fits without a gunsmith. I'm also a sucker for a smooth running bolt with minimal cocking effort.

I'm going to list a perfectly good PT&G "blueprinted" 700 custom one of these days. Primarily just because I'm a snob and prefer how slick tikkas and lone peaks run.

 

[cahunter805]

Have had 6 ea 700's...timing seemed ok but did have one rough chamber that captured a fired case . . . made me crazy til a good smith diagnosed and remedied. They are all ocd accurate...only two haven't been squared, both identical 257 wby mags, but they shoot just as well as the 4 that have...one has been Mickey'fied and bedded...the other is bone stock. Both wear VX3HD 3.5x10x40 Firedot CDS...Ken Jr has the OEM and a chitload of factory ammo that it likes.

I like 700's and Sako for bolts...

Even the RR actions with their bad/nonexistent timing will extract cases most of the time.
A properly timed handle will give you the mechanical advantage of primary extraction and work much better IMO.
I like Rem700 as well and have built plenty of rifles off them in factory form and trued.

 

[mtmuley]

Even the RR actions with their bad/nonexistent timing will extract cases most of the time.
A properly timed handle will give you the mechanical advantage of primary extraction and work much better IMO.
I like Rem700 as well and have built plenty of rifles off them in factory form and trued.

I don't see changing. Especially to a Tikka. mtmuley

 

[cahunter805]

I don't see changing. Especially to a Tikka. mtmuley

Me either. I think tikka’s are ugly.

 

[mtmuley]

Me either. I think tikka’s are ugly.

Looked at one about 20 years ago. I had pellet rifles that felt better made. Just never got over that I guess. mtmuley

 

[blacksheep]

How much did the action work cost, and what was done to the action?

He squared the receiver locking lug recesses, receiver face and the bolt face bolt face. It cost me about $350.

 

[ImBillT]

He squared the receiver locking lug recesses, receiver face and the bolt face bolt face. It cost me about $350.

Not bad things to do, but at $350, plus being in the action for $300-$350 before the work, it makes a Stiller or a Christensen look like an incredible value.