Relax, Everything is Going to be Okay!

[Treeshark]

Not meant to be a political statement, just a math observation:

$400mil x 40 years @ 10% comes out to around $18billion.

$7billion is not what anyone would considered a good return over that timespan.

 

[BuzzH]

Popular backpacking trails such as in Montana's Bob Marshall Wilderness are already backlogged for maintenance. As an example, last trek through the Bob included hiking up Wrong Creek Trail ... wrong decision, as the trail was clogged with layers of downed timber, risky to crawl over, under and around. In fact, we lost the trail twice and camped off-trail two nights, uncertain of the exact trail location. Fortunately, ONX and my always-carried map directed us back on trail. I reported the unsafe conditions to the USFS office in Choteau and last summer they sent a trail crew to open up Wrong Creek Trail for a right nice hike again. There are more trails clogged like that and now, with the absence of the crosscut sawyers, they will remain unsafe and essentially, closed!

I read an article, don't know if its been posted or not, about having to prioritize only very main artery trails this year. Also, all volunteer work is on hold as well.

I think any significant wind events are going to really impact trails this year in many places.

Also, the work I do will be impacted as well. We have work sites across the entire U.S. and U.S. territories every 3-4 miles, hundreds a year in remote locations like the Frank, Bob, etc. etc. etc. Its going to at best, vastly slow our statutorily required work, and at worst likely make it flat impossible to reach some sites.

This is about a lot more than just inconveniencing recreation.

 

[rjthehunter]

I read an article, don't know if its been posted or not, about having to prioritize only very main artery trails this year. Also, all volunteer work is on hold as well.

I think any significant wind events are going to really impact trails this year in many places.

Also, the work I do will be impacted as well. We have work sites across the entire U.S. and U.S. territories every 3-4 miles, hundreds a year in remote locations like the Frank, Bob, etc. etc. etc. Its going to at best, vastly slow our statutorily required work, and at worst likely make it flat impossible to reach some sites.

This is about a lot more than just inconveniencing recreation.

Legit question.

Why would volunteer work be put on hold??? Wouldn't it be a good year to ramp up volunteer work?

 

[Straight Arrow]

Legit question.

Why would volunteer work be put on hold??? Wouldn't it be a good year to ramp up volunteer work?

Bob Marshall Wilderness Foundation, a significant contributor of volunteer work projects has this message on the website. Other volunteer organizations probably have the same uncertainties and questions.

2025 Project Release Dates:​

Update as of 2/25/25: We are delaying the roll out of our summer project schedule until we have a better sense of our capacity and the Complex’s needs. Our new project release dates are TBD; we will send updates via our email newsletters and social media as we know more.​

While we're planning a full slate of summer programming, a significant portion of our funding for this work is currently frozen. We're optimistic that we'll be able to continue our season as planned.

Further explanation is regarding priorities, not knowing which trails USFS will maintain, if any. BMWF plans to ensure that main trails for entry into the Bob are open.

 

[Sytes]

I live on the northern edge of the Bob and have had similar experiences. The large wilderness districts have been underfunded and understaffed for years.

Same when at my home area. Main stomping grounds in the Great Bear (primary area) on through to the Scapegoat area. I've had pretty good trail conditions as I have pulled my sled along many of those trails. I would not make it near as far if not for the great work of our USFS Flathead (Specific to Spotted Bear Office), BMWF, and MOGA. Together they have accomplished significant trail access.

Donations and participation in trail crew operations they set annually (Posted on HT in the past). A FANTASTIC organization that could use many others to support.

Bob Marshall Wilderness Foundation

Information about the Bob Marshall Wilderness complex and the Bob Marshall Wilderness Foundation providing wilderness stewardship and conservation through the volunteer vacations

www.bmwf.org

 

[INMT]

Legit question.

Why would volunteer work be put on hold??? Wouldn't it be a good year to ramp up volunteer work?

Because a majority, if not all of the volunteer projects are planned by the crews that got terminated.

And then the volunteer crews are usually led and instructed by the crews that got terminated.

And if it’s a backcountry project, the volunteers are packed in by the folks that got terminated.

 

[MT22]

I've never received an inheritance. I've built my net worth on my own. It's impressive that he built his net worth to $7bil.

When someone owns income producing properties around the world, and also is the president of the United States, I'd say he's done well for himself. You might not think so, because he doesn't align with your political views.

Good for you. I've never received anything either. So technically I suppose you and I have both increased our net worth by more than a million times over.

I didn't say Trump hasn't done well for himself; his real success was ultimately selling himself as a previously successful businessman via The Apprentice, then capitalizing off that. What I did say was that your initial inquiry to @406dn was silly, because it accounts only for how much someone has, and not where they come from (which you yourself seem to be proud of, when it regards your own life, and rightly so). Would you be impressed by someone who inherited a billion and "increased" their net worth to 1.05 billion? Of course not.

 

[MT22]

I live on the northern edge of the Bob and have had similar experiences. The large wilderness districts have been underfunded and understaffed for years.

Yep. We were already barely scraping by in terms of staffing public lands, and most workers work for pennies, frequently just as seasonal employees.

 

[INMT]

Same when at my home area. Main stomping grounds in the Great Bear (primary area) on through to the Scapegoat area. I've had pretty good trail conditions as I have pulled my sled along many of those trails. I would not make it near as far if not for the great work of our USFS Flathead (Specific to Spotted Bear Office), BMWF, and MOGA. Together they have accomplished significant trail access.

Donations and participation in trail crew operations they set annually (Posted on HT in the past). A FANTASTIC organization that could use many others to support.

Bob Marshall Wilderness Foundation

Information about the Bob Marshall Wilderness complex and the Bob Marshall Wilderness Foundation providing wilderness stewardship and conservation through the volunteer vacations

www.bmwf.org

I love the Great Bear!

The BMWF is a great organization. I know the ED well and worked with him quite a bit when he was with the MCC. Solid guy who has devoted his life to public lands. He’ll use the resources available this year to do the greatest good they can.

 

[Sytes]

BMWF hikes and horse packs in. Outfitter Snowy Springs has dropped supplies, Spotted Bear Ranger location has dropped off materials such as erosion 4x4 and decking for simple crossings on occasion though for the most part BMWF gets in and takes care of business.

We need more community involvement.

 

[Sytes]

Appreciate the detail from your response in the, "Fire up the saws!" thread. Likely better to place my thought / Q here to not derail that thread regarding this portion:

Lots of Forestry Tech's, Foresters, etc. that were recently hired under PSE's (13-13, 18-8) are toast.

It seems a stretch to place forestry techs and foresters under the firefighter/law enforcement, PSE category. Not discounting the loss though was this more an administrative juggling act to place them in a certain funding string or?

 

[BuzzH]

Legit question.

Why would volunteer work be put on hold??? Wouldn't it be a good year to ramp up volunteer work?

No, the volunteers still have to coordinate with agency folks...and the agency folks are currently drawing unemployment and looking for jobs.

 

[BuzzH]

Appreciate the detail from your response in the, "Fire up the saws!" thread. Likely better to place my thought / Q here to not derail that thread regarding this portion:


It seems a stretch to place forestry techs and foresters under the firefighter/law enforcement, PSE category. Not discounting the loss though was this more an administrative juggling act to place them in a certain funding string or?

Not sure I'll answer the question correctly but I think what you're implying is that they NFS wanted to hire more PSE's just to be assured long term funding?

Maybe in some cases? I would argue and rightfully so. The seasonal work is there, always has been, always will be.

But, I think mostly it was:

1. There has been seasonal work going on for decades and decades that the FS is required to do. It's work that could be done full time, year long, if we didn't have this deal called climate. Pretty tough to cut out trails in the Bob in November-May. Its work that needs to be done, and probably would be full time if the weather allowed it. Same with cruising timber, and many other things we do in the field. Its just not practical or even possible to do things in winter months.

2. Hiring 1039's is more costly to the agencies as they just don't stick around. Not many people are willing to work for an agency with no retirement and other benefits for at best, 6 months a year. We invest a lot of money into 1039's in training, etc. I think 1039's have a place to let employees and agencies try out an employee/job to make sure its a fit before pulling the trigger on a PSE. Also to fill gaps that may arise for attrition and truly part time, one-off type agency needs.

3. It just makes sense to invest in employees and keep them on with PSE's rather than this constant loop of hire, train, 1-2 years at most for 1039's...rinse and repeat. Its much more effective and efficient to retain employees that are trained and better at their jobs than taking a chance on 1039's. Also fair to note, that under our CBA, employees can negotiate working past their 13 or 18 pay periods each year. They aren't guaranteed by the agency any more than minimum tours, but IME, the agencies keep them on for often times 25/26 pay periods. The agencies want some flexibility for things like budget woes (understandable).

Speaking personally, up until this year, I've worked all but one pay period a year under PSE's for the past 25 years. We're required by regulation to be in non-pay status one period a year under a PSE.

 

[rjthehunter]

Good for you. I've never received anything either. So technically I suppose you and I have both increased our net worth by more than a million times over.

I didn't say Trump hasn't done well for himself; his real success was ultimately selling himself as a previously successful businessman via The Apprentice, then capitalizing off that. What I did say was that your initial inquiry to @406dn was silly, because it accounts only for how much someone has, and not where they come from (which you yourself seem to be proud of, when it regards your own life, and rightly so). Would you be impressed by someone who inherited a billion and "increased" their net worth to 1.05 billion? Of course not.

I hear a lot of stories of people inheriting millions and blowing it all and ending up with nothing. He's built a brand and a name. I respect it. I get a lot of people don't agree with him politically, but I'd consider him a successful businessman.

I can't speak to the difficulty of turning 400mil to 7bil, but it definitely took difficult decisions and some learning experiences (bankruptcy) along the way.

 

[BrentD]

I hear a lot of stories of people inheriting millions and blowing it all and ending up with nothing. He's built a brand and a name. I respect it. I get a lot of people don't agree with him politically, but I'd consider him a successful businessman.

I can't speak to the difficulty of turning 400mil to 7bil, but it definitely took difficult decisions and some learning experiences (bankruptcy) along the way.

His business has bankrupted something like 4-6 times. Google it.

As i understand it, his businesses are mostly selling is name to outfits in exchange for minor ownership.

What he (as directed by Elon) is doing will destroy entire professions, notably in research, as an example. The impacts will be felt far down the road.

 

[Big Fin]

Anyone going to get this back to the Original Post that started the thread, or do you just want to talk about Elon and Trump as billionaires?

 

[BrentD]

Anyone going to get this back to the Original Post that started the thread, or do you just want to talk about Elon and Trump as billionaires?

Randy I don't think those two things are really separable. Are they going to try to run the government? And particularly things like the four service like they run tesla? Does that kind of management even work in the short run? Much less the long run? I'd like to know how they run their businesses. So I could get an idea of where they might be headed.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

Tonight on the Maine news (that's where I'm at presently) the lead story was the loss of the NOAA Sea Grant program and the impact it will have on the seafood industry in Maine, which is major part of the state's economy. They interviewed a number of lobstermen and fishermen. None were happy about it at all. You could see the stunned disbelief on their faces, as in, that's not what they thought they were voting for. Lots and lots of surprised people all over the country are just now figuring out that elections have real consequences.

 

[Sytes]

Lots and lots of surprised people all over the country are just now figuring out that elections have real consequences.

This is quite a subjective opinion. I believe most everyone has the understanding elections have real consequences. Serve two shits on platters, they both taste like ...shit for us in the middle that may lean slightly one way or the other though not too far to immediately dismiss the other.

Then there are some that bend beyond the middle - in the political shit laced trenches that find the pile of shit on their plate tastes like infused red or blue kool-aid and slurp it up asking for seconds. THOSE are the people that keep serving us in the middle piles of shit we must pinch our nose and accept.