Public Service Announcement

[rogerthat]

Just a quick note, for anyone getting all ramped up for the weekend.

In a few of Montana’s select sheep units, it’s often said “any ram is a good ram from these units”

This is disinformation and incorrect. If you’re going to put the time and effort in on these hunts, not to mention the 7 year wait. Make it a good one. There is absolutely no reason to shoot a dink. No one is hunting sheep for meat. If you just want a bighorn for some stupid species goal. Get a ewe tag. Once you hunt for a while you start to realize it’s the experience that is so awesome and unique not the success. No one cares that you shot some little dink nor do we think your a badazz. So don’t be the jack wagon that shuts the seasons down early with a dink.

Don’t be a Boddington.

Signed,

Roger and Amos, the ram cat

 

[EYJONAS!]

I'll place a bet that over 6 rams get killed this year that are under the age of 6.

 

[Oak]

Just a quick note, for anyone getting all ramped up for the weekend.

In a few of Montana’s select sheep units, it’s often said “any ram is a good ram from these units”

This is disinformation and incorrect. If you’re going to put the time and effort in on these hunts, not to mention the 7 year wait. Make it a good one. There is absolutely no reason to shoot a dink. No one is hunting sheep for meat. If you just want a bighorn for some stupid species goal. Get a ewe tag. Once you hunt for a while you start to realize it’s the experience that is so awesome and unique not the success. No one cares that you shot some little dink nor do we think your a badazz. So don’t be the jack wagon that shuts the seasons down early with a dink.

Don’t be a Boddington.

Signed,

Roger and Amos, the ram cat

Did a 4 year old ram write this?

 

[rogerthat]

Did a 4 year old ram write this?

No, a jack azz on his way across the state to a wedding. Fml

 

[Ought Six]

Get a little tequila in you and tell us how you really feel

 

[cgasner1]

No, a jack azz on his way across the state to a wedding. Fml

I could see heading to a funeral but not a wedding. I don’t associate with people like that

 

[FREAK]

I could see heading to a funeral but not a wedding. I don’t associate with people like that

I do if they schedule it Sept 14th…

 

[EYJONAS!]

I'll place a bet that over 6 rams get killed this year that are under the age of 6.

So far I'm 3 or maybe 4 outta 6.

 

[Beignet]

Are dinks getting smoked in the Stupid Cat Joke Units? Hadn’t checked the quota until now but looks like there’s six down.

 

[GrantK]

I had assumed people had some restraint in those units, I just looked and I was wrong... bad place to be a 4 year old ram these days it appears...

 

[Bambistew]

I presume this is in relation to the UL hunts?

There are some absolute huge rams killed in MT that are 5-6 years old. IIRC there was a 180 4yo killed a few years ago that had like 17" bases. Some areas they rarely live past 8-9. What do we say about that? @Lawnboy wasn't your giant ram a couple years ago like 5 or 6? No one would have passed that ram because he was "only" 6. haha

BTW I shoot sheep for the meat. I shoot mule deer for their antlers, they taste like chit.

 

[rogerthat]

I presume this is in relation to the UL hunts?

There are some absolute huge rams killed in MT that are 5-6 years old. IIRC there was a 180 4yo killed a few years ago that had like 17" bases. Some areas they rarely live past 8-9. What do we say about that? @Lawnboy wasn't your giant ram a couple years ago like 5 or 6? No one would have passed that ram because he was "only" 6. haha

BTW I shoot sheep for the meat. I shoot mule deer for their antlers, they taste like chit.

These aren’t breaks rams. I thought the goal of sheep/ram management and especially in AK was to take as old of a ram as possible that was likely on his way out? If you look at the harvest stats in these units most of the young rams are 20s in length. These are the questionable rams known as the boddington lambs that I’m talking about. But I defer and bow to your immense wall of dalls.

 

[Bambistew]

These aren’t breaks rams. I thought the goal of sheep/ram management and especially in AK was to take as old of a ram as possible that was likely on his way out? If you look at the harvest stats in these units most of the young rams are 20s in length. These are the questionable rams known as the boddington lambs that I’m talking about. But I defer and bow to your immense wall of dalls.

I figured you were alluding to the UL tags. Not really sure it matters what gets shot when its on a quota, other than cutting opportunity short for others holding out for a "bigger" ram? Maybe make harvest be contingent on age vs degree of curl would be better to extend opportunity? Based on the hype of those tags/hunts, I'm not sure you can convince people to not shoot a legal ram given the choice.

Alaska's management is mostly by the seat of their pants, based on a handful of studies over a few decades, with an untold number of variables affecting them all. It seems to work because it limits harvest to subset of the population, the season is short, weather delays, access to many areas, etc. Bio's have no proof one way or the other if killing only old rams has any negative or positive effect on populations. We used to have 3/4 curl management, and shot 1200 rams a year and had 50-60k sheep. We now only shoot old rams and have less than 30k sheep and kill 300 rams. We kill half the % of rams/population and now have half as many sheep.

Some have argued that an older rams (8+) are more important than a younger one when comparing breeding success and their role in the rut. The rut is hard on sheep, and big rams, especially the older rams keep the smaller ones from running ewes all over the place when in estrus, wearing them out and in some cases killing them. One theory is fewer older rams in a herd will put more stress on the younger ones to breed, which in turn means more die prematurely in the winter and fewer ewes get bred because they miss their estrus window by being chased around the mountain. That's a multi decade study for multiple herds to prove that right or wrong, if it could be proven at all given all other variables. A herd with a healthy age dynamic is more important than shooting the "surplus" older rams, or killing a few young rams, IMO. There are way more young ones to lose in a year than old ones. There is a herd here, where they counted 1 full curl ram pre-season, and F&G didn't recommend shutting the season down. IF they did, they'd have to agree that FC regulations don't work. That herd is circling the toilet bowl.

In the end, I couldn't care less what size rams (or any animal) people shoot. If the game agencies manage the species, it shouldn't matter either. Its not like an UL ram is a trophy ram to anyone other than the guy that shot it that believes he's really really accomplished something, or apparently to the guys that wish it was them?

 

[rogerthat]

I figured you were alluding to the UL tags. Not really sure it matters what gets shot when its on a quota, other than cutting opportunity short for others holding out for a "bigger" ram? Maybe make harvest be contingent on age vs degree of curl would be better to extend opportunity? Based on the hype of those tags/hunts, I'm not sure you can convince people to not shoot a legal ram given the choice.

Alaska's management is mostly by the seat of their pants, based on a handful of studies over a few decades, with an untold number of variables affecting them all. It seems to work because it limits harvest to subset of the population, the season is short, weather delays, access to many areas, etc. Bio's have no proof one way or the other if killing only old rams has any negative or positive effect on populations. We used to have 3/4 curl management, and shot 1200 rams a year and had 50-60k sheep. We now only shoot old rams and have less than 30k sheep and kill 300 rams. We kill half the % of rams/population and now have half as many sheep.

Some have argued that an older rams (8+) are more important than a younger one when comparing breeding success and their role in the rut. The rut is hard on sheep, and big rams, especially the older rams keep the smaller ones from running ewes all over the place when in estrus, wearing them out and in some cases killing them. One theory is fewer older rams in a herd will put more stress on the younger ones to breed, which in turn means more die prematurely in the winter and fewer ewes get bred because they miss their estrus window by being chased around the mountain. That's a multi decade study for multiple herds to prove that right or wrong, if it could be proven at all given all other variables. A herd with a healthy age dynamic is more important than shooting the "surplus" older rams, or killing a few young rams, IMO. There are way more young ones to lose in a year than old ones. There is a herd here, where they counted 1 full curl ram pre-season, and F&G didn't recommend shutting the season down. IF they did, they'd have to agree that FC regulations don't work. That herd is circling the toilet bowl.

In the end, I couldn't care less what size rams (or any animal) people shoot. If the game agencies manage the species, it shouldn't matter either. Its not like an UL ram is a trophy ram to anyone other than the guy that shot it that believes he's really really accomplished something, or apparently to the guys that wish it was them?

I can’t argue with any of that. The point of my post was that if it’s really close or hard to tell if it’s legal, why not let it walk? Any ram from these units is in fact not a good ram from these units by default. Time to break the hype. I think we agree. The only downside to letting them walk (which is actually not a downside-point of the post) is that you get to hunt more. But I agree, dink smashing is definitely not a management concern. Montanas two point management season bears that out

 

[MTGomer]

I also don’t understand the allure of killing barely legal, immature rams. However, if they are legal, I guess it just comes down to personal preference.


To me, the unlimited hunt is everything that killing a baby ram within site/earshot of the 4 wheeler trail is not.
YMMV

 

[EYJONAS!]

Up to 5 outta 6. With a 4yo getting tagged today.

 

[freu1chr]

Heard from the game warden one of the rams taken in the closing unit needed 4 people to make sure it was legal to close for each of them to make a decision on their own.

 

[The Hedgehog]

I was dropping a cape off at the taxidermist last week and saw Kurt Racicot’s UL ram from 2023 being finished. Definitely not a dink - that guy is a sheep hunter who I think has several really nice rams from that area.