Public Lands - The Congressional Football

Since most of this forum is from those Rocky Mountain states, some times its good to open your minds and at least think about and consider how those people from Maryland, Florida, Texas, Hawaii all view this topic. You make your argument better if you can understand your entire audience first and then formulate opinions from there.
Judging by the millions of RVs and vehicles from all over the nation, including the east coast, southeast, Midwest that descend on the western states year round and throng to Forest Service, BLM, National Parks…folks all over this country are big fans of federal public lands.

I’ve noticed none of them visit the farmed, hayed, grazed state parcels however. Weird.
 
Since most of this forum is from those Rocky Mountain states, some times its good to open your minds and at least think about and consider how those people from Maryland, Florida, Texas, Hawaii all view this topic. You make your argument better if you can understand your entire audience first and then formulate opinions from there.

I live in Massachusetts, why would I want to transfer federal lands to the state?
 
It is not always black and white, but I think the risks do not equal the rewards in most places. WA State lands are generally managed better than adjacent FS lands. IDK why that is, but it's not hard to see. However, with the direction our State has taken, I could easily see high permit fees for all types of recreation on State lands and even reduced hunting access on State lands.

WA has a Constitutional amendment that any sale of Trust lands must fund the purchase of additional State Trust lands. The hitch is that they may sell 640 acres of ag lands to buy a multiplex in Tacoma. Both are income producing lands.

For me the bigger picture is just how short sighted humans are. There are literally thousands of examples of "issues" we created because we were too short sighted. Part of what I appreciated about the Fed system of management, is that it's still possible to flip politically from one side to another, and the first thing the new side wants to do is undo all the changes that last side did, which really hinders any actual changes in the long run.
 
I have faith in the citizens of Wyo.
Same with Montana. BLM keeps buying more property.


"The Woodchuck acquisition offers hunting and hiking opportunities, as well as limited summer and winter motorized use, and will be managed similarly to other BLM lands in the Blackfoot Special Recreation Management Area,” the BLM news release states. “In addition to public access for recreation, the goal of the acquisition is to maintain working lands, including active forest restoration and fuels projects that would improve forest health and watershed function.”"
 
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If the states were given the land would they manage access to it similar to how wildlife is? Give preferential access to state residents and make non residents apply for the chance to come recreate?
 
If the states were given the land would they manage access to it similar to how wildlife is? Give preferential access to state residents and make non residents apply for the chance to come recreate?
If states were given the land they would manage it how they do other state assets, ostensibly for the benefit of there residents. Benefit includes selling the lands to make a profit, leasing lands to private parties for various uses hunting, recreation, OG, minerals, high speed train experiments (Colorado), etc. Some might be open for public access but with different rules than they have today.

It would vary by state, but no state has the same mixed use mission statement of the USFS or BLM.
 
If states were given the land they would manage it how they do other state assets, ostensibly for the benefit of there residents. Benefit includes selling the lands to make a profit, leasing lands to private parties for various uses hunting, recreation, OG, minerals, high speed train experiments (Colorado), etc. Some might be open for public access but with different rules than they have today.

It would vary by state, but no state has the same mixed use mission statement of the USFS or BLM.


You non-residents stay away from my beach access.
 
It is not always black and white, but I think the risks do not equal the rewards in most places. WA State lands are generally managed better than adjacent FS lands. IDK why that is, but it's not hard to see. However, with the direction our State has taken, I could easily see high permit fees for all types of recreation on State lands and even reduced hunting access on State lands.

WA has a Constitutional amendment that any sale of Trust lands must fund the purchase of additional State Trust lands. The hitch is that they may sell 640 acres of ag lands to buy a multiplex in Tacoma. Both are income producing lands.

For me the bigger picture is just how short sighted humans are. There are literally thousands of examples of "issues" we created because we were too short sighted. Part of what I appreciated about the Fed system of management, is that it's still possible to flip politically from one side to another, and the first thing the new side wants to do is undo all the changes that last side did, which really hinders any actual changes in the long run.
I’m not a fan of the land transfer idea, but i do agree that the state typically manages it better than the feds. Case in point is here in Montana last year the state had a larger budget for 36,000 acres of weed spraying than the Custer-Gallatin had for 1.8 million acres. On the surface it seems simple, the feds are under funded, but that’s not the whole story. The feds have so much waste in their proposals that their budgets don’t go nearly as far. For example…last year I sprayed 604 acres for the state for 1/3 of the price that another contractor sprayed 570 on adjacent forest service. Same chemicals, mapping, equipment. The feds suck to work for and contractors charge much higher prices.

I’m not in favor of any land transfer, but the state does a better job of taking care of certain aspects of their land.
 
I’m not a fan of the land transfer idea, but i do agree that the state typically manages it better than the feds. Case in point is here in Montana last year the state had a larger budget for 36,000 acres of weed spraying than the Custer-Gallatin had for 1.8 million acres. On the surface it seems simple, the feds are under funded, but that’s not the whole story. The feds have so much waste in their proposals that their budgets don’t go nearly as far. For example…last year I sprayed 604 acres for the state for 1/3 of the price that another contractor sprayed 570 on adjacent forest service. Same chemicals, mapping, equipment. The feds suck to work for and contractors charge much higher prices.

I’m not in favor of any land transfer, but the state does a better job of taking care of certain aspects of their land.

Lethargy of the bigger agency. I also think that partially protects federal public lands for pendulum swings though. It often takes a lot more inertia to change things federally that it does at the state and local levels. That federal lethargy sort of buffers us from adversarial agency appointments.
 
The reason public lands aren’t managed well is because the same people that are calling for transfer are block the funding. That’s the game they play. If you want public lands to be managed well, encourage your reps to increase funding instead of voting for bullshit like this.
 
I’m not a fan of the land transfer idea, but i do agree that the state typically manages it better than the feds. Case in point is here in Montana last year the state had a larger budget for 36,000 acres of weed spraying than the Custer-Gallatin had for 1.8 million acres. On the surface it seems simple, the feds are under funded, but that’s not the whole story. The feds have so much waste in their proposals that their budgets don’t go nearly as far. For example…last year I sprayed 604 acres for the state for 1/3 of the price that another contractor sprayed 570 on adjacent forest service. Same chemicals, mapping, equipment. The feds suck to work for and contractors charge much higher prices.
In my neck of the woods, and my industry (civil engineering), you can see this play out at lower levels of gov't as well. They State has a giant set of specifications that are true for every project, even if they're not immediately applicable. The intent is to remove all liability and risk from the public agency and place all of that on the Contractor. It's a great idea, but often there wasn't much risk to begin with, and the extra costs you pay during the bid process ends up being more than the potential change order would have been if your risk came to fruition. We see less of that at the County level, and significantly less at the either very small muni or private level. The project costs reflect the increased risk exposure. Sure there's a place for reducing the public risk exposure, but at a certain point you're tits deep into the land of astronomically diminishing returns wondering why your project costs are 3-10x the going rates.
 
Judging by the millions of RVs and vehicles from all over the nation, including the east coast, southeast, Midwest that descend on the western states year round and throng to Forest Service, BLM, National Parks…folks all over this country are big fans of federal public lands.

I’ve noticed none of them visit the farmed, hayed, grazed state parcels however. Weird.
No but in Wisconsin a vast majority of camping occurs on the state land with very little on the federal land. So you just made my point. You need to open your mind and consider how someone from here actually views the federal lands close to their home
 
No but in Wisconsin a vast majority of camping occurs on the state land with very little on the federal land. So you just made my point. You need to open your mind and consider how someone from here actually views the federal lands close to their home

Wisconsin is one way, Colorado another, Arizona a third way... I think that's part of the appeal of federal public lands though, no?

The rules are fairly standardized across the nation. No mosaic of state regs to contend with.
 
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