Protesters/Rioters? Storm Capital

[VikingsGuy]

Election laws need to be tightened up to ensure that there is one person one vote or we will always have half the country not accepting elections from now on.

And that every adult citizen can vote without jumping through hoops that add little security but do hinder voting by lower economic groups. For example, we have 10 federal holidays - you are telling me that in the world's longest standing democracy one of those every other year can't be national election day so that working folks can more easily vote? A Tuesday in November serves a purpose - and not a great one if we are honest with ourselves. In turn, it is ridiculous to think folks don't have to have some form of evidence they are a lawful resident.

 

[Addicting]

Part of the problem is that both left and right are constantly seeking self affirming data bites and spinning them beyond reasonable inference to win another point in the political game. And it is self re-inforcing, the more the otherside spins the more one ignores even the useful bits that may underlie their spin and the more you ratched up your own echo chamber. This has been going on for all of human history I suspect, but it does have peaks and valleys - the last 20 years have be working up to this peak.

A few examples:

I heard at least 5 different major network commentators refer to last night as an "armed insurrection by domestic terrorists". This is simply not accurate and not helpful. What they did was unlawful, unruly, dangerous and offensive, I would be the first to jail every person who entered the capitol unlawfully yesterday without losing a minute of sleep. But there is simply no evidence of signficant firearm use by the protestors, there is no evidence any of them intended to in fact install their own government while at the capitol and there is no evidence that they were terrorists by any reasonable definition of that term. This rhetoric does not help some on the right who have enabled Trump to see the harm in his hyperbole and divisiveness, it just confirms to them the media cannot be trusted to deliver them the news. We need to do better than this.

Similarly, I heard more than a few congress members and pundits say all 60 Trump legal suits have been throughly vetted by judges (including Trump appointees) and fully repudiated. This is only partially true - some have been factually vetted by a court - but most were summarily dismissed on procedural grounds without any actual hearing on the mertis. And this is absolutely the way the law does and should work - concepts like standing etc are important part of a functioning legal system. So why not say, "most of Trumps law suits have been dismissed on procedural grounds but those that have proceeded have failed on the merits"? What about admitting that while Biden is our lawful and legitimate president elect, that some of the poll workers and sec of states played fast and loose around the edges and that those states should spend the next 2 years improving their rules and systems, as Florida did after 2000. And on the turn, Trump is obsolutely wrong by any definition when he repeatedly says he "won a beatiful and historic landslide victory". Even if every one of the 60 lawsuits would have prevailed he would have barely ecked out a win. So how about we start speaking the fully nuanced truth instead of grand hyperbole. We need to do better than this.

So, as a life long conservative I state my respect for those Americans who peacefully protested this summer and yesterday, while also stating my complete disgust for those that destroyed public/private property, used violence and caused harm to others. But I also acknowledge, that in both instances, when long standing concerns are not given full due consideration (which is different than just giving them their way) at some point the most radical 2% agitators have fertile ground to sow chaos. And yes, black Americans have legitimate longstanding concerns about grave injustices that get routinely dismissed by half of our society; and yes, poor white Americans have suffered greatly at the hands of the de-industrialization of the country, and all have suffered as we remap the "nuclear family" as a primary feature of society and lose historical grounding points such as faith; and yes, I can see how the two-faced politicians on both sides of the aisle have earned the hate from the other side.

We need to start hearing one another. Much like humor - there are nuggets of truth behind even the most non-sensical positions. Rather than labelling those we disagree with as racists, communists, traitors, fools, etc., why don't we try to find out what grain of sand has been in their shoe for so long that it has come to this. Because we are better than this. We must to better than this.

Well said, thankyou.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Firstly, to be perfectly honest I think @Big Fin needs to come in and shut this thing back down. It's beyond the point of usefulness.

Respectfully, I disagree. There are too few places these day were people of differing views get to actually air them with some modicum of self control and to take a brief moment away from their self-selected (and social media enhanced) echo chamber. While not perfect, HuntTalk often proves itself up to the task.

 

[Addicting]

And that every adult citizen can vote without jumping through hoops that add little security but do hinder voting by lower economic groups. For example, we have 10 federal holidays - you are telling me that in the world's longest standing democracy one of those every other year can't be national election day so that working folks can more easily vote? A Tuesday in November serves a purpose - and not a great one if we are honest with ourselves. In turn, it is ridiculous to think folks don't have to have some form of evidence they are a lawful resident.

I thought this is why we are asked to register to vote. I’m not smart on the WHY we don’t have to in advance with proof of district residency make Election Day smoother.

 

[VikingsGuy]

How many of those 19 were shot by police? How many of those arrests were vacated by liberal Democrat's?

Good questions - would be refreshing if you researched that and presented some compelling evidence rather than throwing out a rhetorical question that falsey pretends to be backed up with such researched conclusions.

 

[SaskHunter]

This was not a war torn country.

You're right, it's a symbol of your democracy that was attacked and invaded. This armed guard/officer is tasked with protecting it's occupants, mainly your elected officials. He's the last line of defense of democracy, political opinion aside, this person's job is to keep all those people safe. For all we know there are dozens of people in the room he's in. She could be armed, she could have a bomb, etc. This guy had split seconds to react to protect himself and everyone he is tasked to protect. The cavalry could've been seconds or hours away.

The Canadian parliament was breached a few years ago by a gunman, one man with a Winchester 94 killed one ceremonial guard then stormed our parliament (your White House/Capitol building). Firefight ensued and the armed guards killed him and defended our elected officials, regardless of their own political allegiances, they didn't stop to think about what they personally stand for, they just did their job.

 

[ignorethefringes]

Respectfully, I disagree. There are too few places these day were people of differing views get to actually air them with some modicum of self control and to take a brief moment away from their self-selected (and social media enhanced) echo chamber. While not perfect, HuntTalk often proves itself up to the task.

In that case, I support a heavy ban hand when people can't behave properly! LOL

 

[Zach]

You couldn’t of just moved on Karen, thank you for the worthwhile edition

Gotta say, first for me being called Karen, thanks.

Outsides of a handful of reasonable posts(and those were about beer), this has mostly been a slow moving train wreck that stalled briefly.

Side note, perhaps you should amend your signature...

 

[Pmacc60]

Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying he is lying. I am sure to him there is truth in it. It is very much evident by your post you hold him in high regard. My point was there are facts that need to come out to make a decision. Everything there is on camera, the actual truth will come out. In our courts we don’t make a damming conviction on hearsay.

Thank you I respect your opinion but he was an eyewitness and his reports of the crowd size was more accurate every hour. Much more than the news who has agenda , it was disgraceful what happen yesterday ! This was a planned attack in my opinion , Trump supporters left a city intact, that needs noted . I’m not a big Trump guy , he needs to shut up and do his job but I do believe in the constitution . If you honor the constitution and the law, you have my support! Yes I hold this guy in high regard because he has always been low key and solid.

 

[Jason73]

Hunt Talk forums "Fireside, a place for friends" or a spot to create enemies of those with a shared loved of the outdoors by ranting on identity politics, hatred of opposing views, tribalism, and the ingrained two party political system. I foresee lock prior to three full pages.

Couldn't have said it better. Frankly this post is exactly how the world is today. No one agrees, no one gets along. Why would it be any different? We elect all these clowns and let them lead us on a leash. It's our own damn faults.

 

[Randi]

I agree.

I refuse to believe that the majority of Americans are not capable of disagreeing without bering disagreeable

AND, this is not the first time I have seen this or things like it. Approx 50 years ago Wash D.C. was on fire because of the Martin Luther King Jr assassination . I remember being very upset when President Kennedy was shot and again when I saw people celebrating his death. The Viet Nam protests got ugly several times in several locations. I was young but remember people being upset that approx 2/3rds of the Japanese sent to the internment camps were born in the U.S., the Cuban missile crises brought out some real interesting individuals and discussions . Currently at least one congresswoman has referred to 9/11 as "something happened" ( or something like that )-----Bobby Kennedy assinination , Nixon resignation, Clinton's affair------------

-Today was an embarrassment, but I believe we will not only survive the embarrassment, but will get stronger.

America the Beautiful

if I knew how to post things, I would include John Wayne's song ----America, you ask me why I love her

I was all wound up yesterday and my grandparents mentioned some of these things and told me not to lose the fire in my belly but to not go off, half cocked either. April, your post is similar to the speech and information they gave me yesterday.

Respectfully, I disagree. There are too few places these day were people of differing views get to actually air them with some modicum of self control and to take a brief moment away from their self-selected (and social media enhanced) echo chamber. While not perfect, HuntTalk often proves itself up to the task.

I also agree with the above, a long as the subject is discussed without insulting the opinions of others. As VikingsGuy knows I enjoy his posts and enjoy conversing -and even disagreeing with him. He has always been kind in his responses to me.

 

[Zim]

Is there any irony in the fact of who is funding your pension in regard to this post you made? It's no wonder draw odds have you confused.

Numb nuts - Another unprovoked personal attack, against website code of conduct. You don't even know me. I work for a government contractor and have no pension. Just a 401k which I fund 100% or 97% if you want to discount my company's 3% contribution. What a whacko liberal commie.

 

[Glockster]

Gotta say, first for me being called Karen, thanks.

Outsides of a handful of reasonable posts(and those were about beer), this has mostly been a slow moving train wreck that stalled briefly.

Side note, perhaps you should amend your signature...

I use to live next to a obese man that would walk around shirtless during the summer. He would jokingly say “if you don’t like it, don’t look at it.” That same phrase could very well apply here.
Most adults can make their point be heard in a coherent, well thought out, and somewhat polite manner. If you don’t have that skill maybe thats something you should work on.
but I’m sure your opinion on this will be noted.

 

[OntarioHunter]

This is my biggest fear. Millions did felt that Trump cheated with the Russians to win the elections. This election millions think that when the Democrats went around the state legislators and changed elections laws that they were cheating. When one side thinks the other side is cheating they will use there belief to justify doing the same thing themselves.
It wouldn't be that hard to cheat. I could have done it this past election. Of course I didn't and would not in the future but the opportunity was there. I received a ballot in the mail from my son to vote in Montana. He has lived in SD for the past two years. It would have been easy to fill it out, forged his name and dropped it in the mail. I would like to think that this would be caught by election officials but the reality is there is a good chance it would not have. Election laws need to be tightened up to ensure that there is one person one vote or we will always have half the country not accepting elections from now on.

The election regulations are designed for efficiency, especially in an unusual pandemic situation. There is NO evidence that the changes FAVOURED ONE PARTY OVER THE OTHER. How could that even be done? This is the fact that debunks the Trumplodites' arguement. His crowd had as much opportunity to cast fraudulent votes as Biden's. Someone explain to me how equal opportunity at the ballot box (or mailbox) invalidates freedom, liberty, and democracy. It just doesn't make sense. But that's Donald Trump. He doesn't make sense. Because he doesn't have any.

On a positive note, I see this morning Twitter has suspended his account ... again. An ordinary person might consider that a humiliating rebuke. But we all know Trump is anything but normal. I can hardly wait for his "fight back" response. Hopefully he will be screaming at the walls this time. And ones with rubber padding on them.