Protection in bear country

[nrpate05]

I'm going to work to get 10mm vs Bear spray on the ballot this November. Hopefully then this debate can be settled once and for all...

 

[rogerthat]

I'm going to work to get 10mm vs Bear spray on the ballot this November. Hopefully then this debate can be settled once and for all...

I agree. They should poll the Montana gubernatorial candidates. I’m sure Busse would be taking bear spray

 

[sclancy27]

I have primarily carried spray only, for work and play. For work I was only allowed to carry spray and we were working in dense riparian areas in NW WY that had high numbers of
G bears.

 

[Cornbread]

2 yrs ago in Co. my buddy and I were stuck going through some real thick oak brush he had a can of spray on his belt some the branches must have caught the can dislodged the safety and pow it went off man what a mess I was good but it hammered him
found an opening took off pack and his shirt cleaned up best as he could but it kept burning him till we got to a place to set up for the night and he could get to some water and really get that stuff off him. We laugh about it now but not so much at the time

That happened to a hunting buddy of mine in Oct 2022 while on a horse.The 16-hand mare got it in the face and so did he. Even the guide caught part of it. The horse threw him and ran off. 2-weeks later my buddy was home bow hunting in a tree stand nad gets so dizzy he can't get down. Had to call somebody for help. Hospital finds he had an aneurism. 10 days in the hospital and a stent in his brain. not fun. He didn't have an extra safety on the bear spray.

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

When I am hiking and hunting I stick with hand grenades. When I set up camp at night I set out claymores, and smear peanut butter on the front. This way I know I will get a CNS hit, and any other bears around will know I mean business. Fun fact, the "front towards enemy" lettering is raised, so it gives the peanut butter something good to stick to.

Also, if you ever see a neon green Outdoor Research stuff sack hanging from a tree, don't try and shanghai by Backpacker's Pantry pad thai there is a punji pit underneath it.

 

[WC53]

Surely the answer is .223 77gr SMK. I have a fancy flannel and clip on man bun so griz knows I am serious

 

[LuketheDog]

2 yrs ago in Co. my buddy and I were stuck going through some real thick oak brush he had a can of spray on his belt some the branches must have caught the can dislodged the safety and pow it went off man what a mess I was good but it hammered him
found an opening took off pack and his shirt cleaned up best as he could but it kept burning him till we got to a place to set up for the night and he could get to some water and really get that stuff off him. We laugh about it now but not so much at the time

Why was he carrying spray in CO? I carry my pistol here when I'm not hunting with a rifle, but that's more for the meth heads in the parking lot, not the bears...

 

[Don Fischer]

sound to me like though should be given on going hunting in grizzly country as apposed to carrying bear spray. With both there seems to be a hard fact risk you take weather you want to or not!

 

[Bluffgruff]

That happened to a hunting buddy of mine in Oct 2022 while on a horse.The 16-hand mare got it in the face and so did he. Even the guide caught part of it. The horse threw him and ran off. 2-weeks later my buddy was home bow hunting in a tree stand nad gets so dizzy he can't get down. Had to call somebody for help. Hospital finds he had an aneurism. 10 days in the hospital and a stent in his brain. not fun. He didn't have an extra safety on the bear spray.

Bear spray doesn't cause cerebral aneurysms. I just want to make sure that it is clear that your buddy already had an aneurysm that had been present for a long time before it ruptured while he was bow hunting.

 

[rogerthat]

Bear spray doesn't cause cerebral aneurysms. I just want to make sure that it is clear that your buddy already had an aneurysm that had been present for a long time before it ruptured while he was bow hunting.

From the horse wreck maybe? That’s how I read it

 

[Cornbread]

Bear spray doesn't cause cerebral aneurysms. I just want to make sure that it is clear that your buddy already had an aneurysm that had been present for a long time before it ruptured while he was bow hunting.

He fell off the horse when the horse bolted and hit his head apparently. I believe my original post DID say the horse threw him.

 

[Straight Arrow]

He fell off the horse when the horse bolted and hit his head apparently. I believe my original post DID say the horse threw him.

Yes you DID ... however, the way you wrote it read as though the aneursym was related to bear spray in the face.

 

[Bluffgruff]

From the horse wreck maybe? That’s how I read it

That wouldn't cause an aneurysm either. You can get other types of brain bleeds from trauma, but aneurysms are either genetic (what I presumed before) or acquired, and none of them are related to mild trauma, or bear spray use.

 

[jejack26]

I have literally sprayed several dozen bears, worked every time. Since spray became available we’ve only had to kill one. Total in my lifetime killed four. Shooting them worked every time as well. I carry both a handgun and spray when guiding. Hiking in Montana I’ll at least carry spray probably a hand gun as well but I’d rather forget my handgun than the spray. I don’t carry a handgun and a rifle and spray.

Curious, have you ever had to spray a bear more than once?

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

That wouldn't cause an aneurysm either. You can get other types of brain bleeds from trauma, but aneurysms are either genetic (what I presumed before) or acquired, and none of them are related to mild trauma, or bear spray use.

An existing aneurysm could be aggravated or ballooned due to the trauma though.

 

[Salmonchaser]

This one took two separate hits. I have a video someplace but I’m too much of a Luddite to find it. Found it but can’t attach it.

 

[Cornbread]

An existing aneurysm could be aggravated or ballooned due to the trauma though.

Bingo. He's only 58, so I would assume that the blow to his head aggravated the situation.

 

[Bluffgruff]

An existing aneurysm could be aggravated or ballooned due to the trauma though.

I don't think that's medically accurate. The trauma wouldn't be the cause.

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

I don't think that's medically accurate. The trauma wouldn't be the cause.

I will acknowledge I am not a vascular surgeon, but I have a close family member who has survived multiple aneurysms disecting (this happens when one of the layers of the vessels walls separates and the vessel balloons; which often precedes a full rupture), and still lives with one on his aorta, so I have had exhaustive conversations with medical professionals about the risks. From what I understand, there are many potential causes for an aneurysm to grow to where they are more prone to rupture and I am quite confident trauma is one of them. That said, the rupture itself is likely more closely related to high or spiked blood pressure.

All that said, I would not presume to give medical advice.

 

[Bluffgruff]

I will acknowledge I am not a vascular surgeon, but I have a close family member who has survived multiple aneurysms disecting (this happens when one of the layers of the vessels walls separates and the vessel balloons; which often precedes a full rupture), and still lives with one on his aorta, so I have had exhaustive conversations with medical professionals about the risks. From what I understand, there are many potential causes for an aneurysm to grow to where they are more prone to rupture and I am quite confident trauma is one of them. That said, the rupture itself is likely more closely related to high or spiked blood pressure.

All that said, I would not presume to give medical advice.

Aneurysms are not all one flavor in cause or how they ultimately cause morbidity and mortality. Cerebral, coronary, aortic, and other aneurysms are all a bit different. Sounds like your family member has a collagen disease of some kind, which seems pretty scary to not know when something might happen.

In regards to the horse accident, head trauma causes epidural and subdural hematomas, not aneurysms, though you can get traumatic subarachnoid hemorrhages. Cerebral aneurysm formation is linked to cigarette smoking, genetics, alcohol use, and hypertension (among other things) and aren't fully understood, but are not linked to head trauma. Rupture of cerebral aneurysms is another part of the process, and causes subarachnoid hemorrhage. Linking bear spray to the horse accident is one thing, clearly causative, but linking bear spray to a horse accident to head trauma to aneurysm formation and then aneurysm rupture weeks later is a far different thing that is really inappropriate. Could the friend have had a traumatic subarachnoid hemorrhage? Possibly, but he would likely have had symptoms of that before the deer stand incident.

*kicks soap box into next county*

Sorry about your friend cornbread, I hope he's doing okay.