Proposition KK

[Bigjay73]

What are the chances that this will be ruled unconstitutional? I'm still shaking my head over the passing of this bill, is there any hope that it may be overturned, or do I need to get over it?

 

[Ben Lamb]

If you don't know:

Proposition KK: New excise tax on gun and ammunition sales, explained

Prop. KK would levy a new 6.5 percent excise tax on gunsellers for all sales of ammunition, firearms and gun parts. The money would fund programs for crime victims and behavioral health support for veterans and youth.

www.cpr.org

I think there's a question around interstate commerce, but I'm not sure. A state excise tax on goods like this has been contemplated in many places before, but it always ran into the commerce clause.

Laudable goals, though.

 

[Redmt]

I'm pretty sure CA got away with an 11% additional tax .

 

[LuketheDog]

What are the chances that this will be ruled unconstitutional? I'm still shaking my head over the passing of this bill, is there any hope that it may be overturned, or do I need to get over it?

I have a hard time getting my hopes up in this state anymore, I was pleasantly surprised that 127, and Denver 308 and 309 failed.

 

[COEngineer]

I'm no Constitutional scholar, but a tax on a Bill of Rights right, seems untenable. The downside is that Pittman-Robertson may be thrown out in the process (baby with the bath water). An analogous tax on the 1st Amendment would be something like saying, "Of course, you can print/write/broadcast anything you want, but you have to pay the government a percentage of each newspaper/magazine/TV subscription."

 

[COEngineer]

Laudable goals, though.

Ok, maybe. But it's like putting a tax on all cars that pays for alcoholism prevention and vehicular manslaughter victims. It's ridiculous to tax a legitimate right to pay for the actions of a few law breakers.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Ok, maybe. But it's like putting a tax on all cars that pays for alcoholism prevention and vehicular manslaughter victims. It's ridiculous to tax a legitimate right to pay for the actions of a few law breakers.

We do it everyday in this country. It's how we pay for civilization.

 

[LuketheDog]

Laudable goals, though.

Yes, good goals. However, our state spending is at an all-time high but the programs KK will pay for have been previously cut from the budget here by the Democrat state legislature for some reason, so this measure is actually only re-funding them. Our Governor is also already on the record stating that taxing an item is the same as penalizing it, so while the goals are good, the consistency of the message is pretty poor.

 

[COEngineer]

We do it everyday in this country. It's how we pay for civilization.

I can't think of an example of taxing a right enumerated in the US Constitution. It would be like paying a tax for voting, or speaking, or going to church.

 

[jryoung]

I'm pretty sure CA got away with an 11% additional tax .

Bill passed and implemented, but it's being challenged in court. If overturned, what happens to the PR tax. Is it different at the wholesale and/or Federal level or are we playing with fire here? Would someone need to bring the challenge to PR directly, or could it get swept up if AB 28 was overturned?

 

[Ben Lamb]

I can't think of an example of taxing a right enumerated in the US Constitution. It would be like paying a tax for voting, or speaking, or going to church.

Your right to bear arms isn't being taxed. Just the transaction when you purchase it.

You do not have a right to purchase anything.

 

[seeth07]

Right or wrong, there is a huge difference in public perception of this tax compared to PR. If you polled each person that just bought a gun about their acceptance of the $ from that sale that went to PR and how those funds are used, I'm guessing it would be extremely high in support of.

 

[COEngineer]

Your right to bear arms isn't being taxed. Just the transaction when you purchase it.

You do not have a right to purchase anything.

Again, I'm not a lawyer, but that argument doesn't hold water for me. If the gov't imposed a 10,000% tax on guns and ammo, that would not violate the 2nd Amendment??

 

[marksjeep]

Here is the bill which created kk. It's not pretty. Lots of pr references to provide constitutional legitimacy. Lots of burdens placed on vendors. I expect a lot fewer vendors dealing with sales to colorado soon.

https://leg.colorado.gov/bills/hb24-1349

 

[ismith]

If you don't know:

Proposition KK: New excise tax on gun and ammunition sales, explained

Prop. KK would levy a new 6.5 percent excise tax on gunsellers for all sales of ammunition, firearms and gun parts. The money would fund programs for crime victims and behavioral health support for veterans and youth.

www.cpr.org

I think there's a question around interstate commerce, but I'm not sure. A state excise tax on goods like this has been contemplated in many places before, but it always ran into the commerce clause.

Laudable goals, though.

Laudable goals, but they are taxing the wrong thing for it. Tax drugs and alcohol, they are the accelerant of 99.9 % of mental health issues, as well as being a key ingredient of most rapes in the military.

 

[ismith]

Seems to me that there is a fair number of bikers on and about the forum so I thought I'd start a thread for all matters motorcycling.

First up does anybody know where I can get parts and helpful advice for BMW's without paying BMW prices? I've always used Sprint Manufacturing for Triumph bits'n'bobs but now that I've moved over to the dark side I need to find another supplier.

Wrong type of bikers, I think.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Again, I'm not a lawyer, but that argument doesn't hold water for me. If the gov't imposed a 10,000% tax on guns and ammo, that would not violate the 2nd Amendment??

If we keep our arguments based on what is actually happening, we serve each other better.

The Second Amendment, Taxes, And Gun Control

Roxanne Bland examines efforts states and localities could make to help increase gun control without infringing on the Second Amendment and citizen’s right to own firearms.

www.forbes.com

Disclaimer: I don't know the author and a quick Google search didn't provide much evidence of bias one way or another.

Essentially the governments power of taxation is akin to regulation, per the Heller decision. And all rights are subject to regulation.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Laudable goals, but they are taxing the wrong thing for it. Tax drugs and alcohol, they are the accelerant of 99.9 % of mental health issues, as well as being a key ingredient of most rapes in the military.

100% on board with taxing the shit out of vice.

 

[MTGomer]

It should be the opposite. Owning guns is a right. The purchase of guns and ammo should be tax deductible and should be subsidized/free for the poor.

 

[Ben Lamb]

It should be the opposite. Owning guns is a right. The purchase of guns and ammo should be tax deductible and should be subsidized/free for the poor.

I'm a supporter of compulsory gun ownership for all citizens. One of the first thing tyrants do is try to take the guns. King George can take mine bbl first.