Project 2025 and Conservation

Forkyfinder said:
Forbes, or the manufacturers?

Most are rated for 80% output+ after 25 years.

edit: Since you dont trust things not made in america - look at mission solar modules. 84.8% generation at 25 years and made in san antonio texas

www.missionsolar.com

Datasheets & Warranty - Mission Solar

www.missionsolar.com www.missionsolar.com
Click to expand...
My solar designer friend said that panels produced here are getting longer life estimate and have fewer problems. But at least as recently as a few months back supplies were a problem. He's been waiting months for the panels he prefers to come in.
 
BigHornRam said:
www.solarinsure.com

The Complete List of Solar Bankruptcies and Business Closures

2023 has brought immense challenges, with higher interest rates, tighter financing, and adverse policy shifts which have contributed to solar bankruptcies.
www.solarinsure.com www.solarinsure.com
Click to expand...
Not sure that is the greatest metric to use to make your point (even if I don't know what the exact point is). The list of O&G bankruptcies isn't exactly short. When Chesapeake filed for bankruptcy I remember it had over a page of affiliates listed. Any industry in its infancy is going to attract people that want to take a risk and try to make it big. That is the nature of capitalism, and why bat-shit ideas can go bankrupt and it doesn't affect the individual.

You and I have exchanged this info before. Payback period isn't just about the panels. The killer cost is the installation. There is no reason for a company to charge $15,000 to install $5000 in solar panels on a home for what at worst takes 8hrs. Someone gets that down to a reasonable number and make my breakeven better, I will sign up.
 
Gerald Martin said:
All this talk about alternative energy and no one mentions nuclear…
Click to expand...
It has been mentioned. The problems are 1) NIMBY, 2) it takes a long time to build a new plant and 3) it is expensive. It is easy to say "cut regulations" but that ties into the NIMBY issue. You want a nuclear plant around you with reduced regulation? Get through that mess and they are incredible. I think everything should be on the table, but the question is where at total cost. It isn't an easy choice. I currently enjoy cheap hydro electricity from dams that were built at a time that was so bad no one considered environmental impacts as relevant. tToday it isn't the same. If any Columbia river dam was proposed today it would be stuck in litigation for a decade. I would expect the same for the Snake River dams, which were built later and people want to tear them down now.
 
SAJ-99 said:
It has been mentioned. The problems are 1) NIMBY, 2) it takes a long time to build a new plant and 3) it is expensive. It is easy to say "cut regulations" but that ties into the NIMBY issue. You want a nuclear plant around you with reduced regulation? Get through that mess and they are incredible. I think everything should be on the table, but the question is where at total cost. It isn't an easy choice. I currently enjoy cheap hydro electricity from dams that were built at a time that was so bad no one considered environmental impacts as relevant. tToday it isn't the same. If any Columbia river dam was proposed today it would be stuck in litigation for a decade. I would expect the same for the Snake River dams, which were built later and people want to tear them down now.
Click to expand...

I’d rather have a nuclear reactor in my backyard than a coal fired generating plant or lots of wind turbines.
 
Forkyfinder said:
Fission/fusion is the answer - it's just getting there.

Lots of security risk relatively speaking, high upfront and operating cost, and unique regulatory challenges.
Click to expand...
Seems to be a competition between China and the West on fusion. I just wonder if major progress, when made, will be shared?
 
Bonasababy said:
An old

finance-commerce.com

Sustainable: Batteries bolster solar in a first for Minnesota

The revolution underway in clean energy is taking a big step forward this month.
finance-commerce.com finance-commerce.com

And a more recent article for you.

etn.news

Xcel Energy to build multi-day battery storage project using Form Energy's iron-air batteries

Xcel Energy on Thursday (July 6) announced that it has received approval from the state regulators to build a multi-day battery storage system
etn.news etn.news
Click to expand...
Less than 50% efficiency. Iron-air batteries are not ready for prime time.Screenshot_20240723_071646_Chrome.jpg
 
BigHornRam said:
Less than 50% efficiency. Iron-air batteries are not ready for prime time.View attachment 333896
Click to expand...
Do you realize that what you quoted was info from a company that said the same thing, and they are working to improve on that efficiency rate?

There are smaller home battery back up systems that have much higher, believe you can average 70 percent with them or better--the challenge has been to scale them up to a big scale, but work is ongoing. And I suspect you know of but aren't discussing the importance of long term duration batteries--you can't equate the needs of down time energy production from batteries to other batteries. They need to store and then dispatch their energy over a longer time than what most think of for battery function. Forms improving iron systems show a lot of promise at that.

In any case, the large numbers of totally off grid systems that have been in place for years show it can work with older battery technology--tech that is already more efficient and getting more so as time goes on.
 
Last edited:
SAJ-99 said:
You have some expertise on this so I trust you.
Click to expand...
I leave for a few days and this thread blew up...

Trying to get caught up, but wanted to flag this kind of productive rhetoric. It's just so rare for anyone to admit, particularly online, that someone else might know what they are talking about. I appreciate this conversation gentlemen.

Carry on!
 
SAJ-99 said:
Seems to be a competition between China and the West on fusion. I just wonder if major progress, when made, will be shared?
Click to expand...
That i dont know. We arent in a collaborative technical world anymore, it seems.

To echo @Elky Welky - thank you for acknowledging a degree of understanding, @SAJ-99. One of the few topics im pretty informed on is power/renewables.
 
One appealing renewable project is the Gordon Butte Pumped Storage Hydro system in central Montana, which consists of an upper reservoir on the butte with hydro turbines and a lower catch reservoir below, with a wind generated pump system to renew the hydro potential continuously for the upper reservoir in a closed loop configuration, with no impact to other steams or watersheds. 'Don't think it incorporates any solar, but potentially could.
 
Bonasababy said:
Do you realize that what you quoted was info from a company that said the same thing, and they are working to improve on that efficiency rate?

There are smaller home battery back up systems that have much higher, believe you can average 70 percent with them or better--the challenge has been to scale them up to a big scale, but work is ongoing. And I suspect you know of but aren't discussing the importance of long term duration batteries--you can't equate the needs of down time energy production from batteries to other batteries. They need to store and then dispatch their energy over a longer time than what most think of for battery function. Forms improving iron systems show a lot of promise at that.

In any case, the large numbers of totally off grid systems that have been in place for years show it can work with older battery technology--tech that is already more efficient and getting more so as time goes on.
Click to expand...
This battery technology is very good. I own a couple 100 amp batteries of their's. If I was to do an off grid system, I would use their batteries. They are also extremely expensive.
 
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