Primal Rights CPS primer seater

[millerkiller77]

I'd like some feedback from anyone on here using one of these. I have tried reaching out to primal rights and left VM's with no call back, no emails returned, nada. Only Crickets. Maybe they are out of business?
Before I purchased it, I called them and there was no answer, but within 10 minutes a lady called me back inquiring about a missed call on her end and I chatted with her before placing my order over the phone. She seemed knowledgeable about reloading and the different priming options available from various manufacturers.
I have some issues with how sloppy this thing is machined and assembled, the primer tubes flop around like a hotdog in a hallway, to the point that primers wont feed. I tried wrapping scotch tape around the primer tubes as a half assed bushing, but they dont have enough embeddment into the body to be stabilized. The entire upper seating assembly where the shell holder sits can be wiggled around and there is no means to tighten it. I'm talking loose, like shaking a half empty container of tic tacs loose.
Just curious if any of you have had the same issues with one of these or maybe ended up with a $700 lemon?

 

[std7mag]

$700 for a primer???!!!

Thing better have my coffee made & waiting in the morning!!!

Oh, wait....

My $30 coffee pot already does that.

 

[BackofBeyond]

That's really disappointing to hear it's got a good reputation as a quality tool. How long have you been reaching out to them about the issue?

 

[Caseknife]

I've been hand priming for over 40 years, doesn't look like something that I need on my bench. Hope you can get it figured out.

 

[Schism]

I don't have a PR priming tool but I have watched some of his videos and perused his website more than once. That stinks you didn't get a reply and surprises me a bit. It looks like he was active on YouTube a couple days ago. He used to be active on a few forums under the username "Orkan" but I haven't seen him around for a while.

 

[millerkiller77]

That's really disappointing to hear it's got a good reputation as a quality tool. How long have you been reaching out to them about the issue?

I did as much online research as I could and the feedback was generally positive with a few user's that were on the fence. I tried contacting them the day I received it, and then again two weeks later.
I'm going to 3d print a bracket to stabilize the primer tube and call it good.

 

[mtmuley]

I did as much online research as I could and the feedback was generally positive with a few user's that were on the fence. I tried contacting them the day I received it, and then again two weeks later.
I'm going to 3d print a bracket to stabilize the primer tube and call it good.

Serious question. Why a $700 tool to seat primers? mtmuley

 

[millerkiller77]

I don't have a PR priming tool but I have watched some of his videos and perused his website more than once. That stinks you didn't get a reply and surprises me a bit. It looks like he was active on YouTube a couple days ago. He used to be active on a few forums under the username "Orkan" but I haven't seen him around for a while.

I also used to see him on other forums and that's what made me aware of his products. Seemed like a good dude.

 

[millerkiller77]

Serious question. Why a $700 tool to seat primers? mtmuley

It wasn't about the price. It was for the speed and absolute repeatability of seating depth.
I spend a lot of time prepping my brass, including cutting the pockets to the correct depth.
OCD? Maybe, but I like to remove as many variables as I can when reloading. The other bench mounted primers I've tried could not consistently seat the primer to the same depth and the hand priming tools are too slow. Had I physically handled one prior to purchase, then no, I would not have spent $700 on it. I feel like it is a fair value in the $250-$350 range....that's not meant to be an insult. Just my opinion on value based off my manufacturing experiences.

 

[mtmuley]

It wasn't about the price. It was for the speed and absolute repeatability of seating depth.
I spend a lot of time prepping my brass, including cutting the pockets to the correct depth.
OCD? Maybe, but I like to remove as many variables as I can when reloading. The other bench mounted primers I've tried could not consistently seat the primer to the same depth and the hand priming tools are too slow. Had I physically handled one prior to purchase, then no, I would not have spent $700 on it. I feel like it is a fair value in the $250-$350 range....that's not meant to be an insult. Just my opinion on value based off my manufacturing experiences.

Makes sense for high volume repeatability. Hope it gets resolved. mtmuley

 

[WapitiBob]

You can put a 10-32 screw in the handle of a $50 Redding seater and have the same micro adjust and depth repeatability.

 

[millerkiller77]

You can put a 10-32 screw in the handle of a $50 Redding seater and have the same micro adjust and depth repeatability.

Thanks Bob. Why didn't to tell me this earlier?

 

[orkan]

I'd like some feedback from anyone on here using one of these. I have tried reaching out to primal rights and left VM's with no call back, no emails returned, nada. Only Crickets. Maybe they are out of business?
Before I purchased it, I called them and there was no answer, but within 10 minutes a lady called me back inquiring about a missed call on her end and I chatted with her before placing my order over the phone. She seemed knowledgeable about reloading and the different priming options available from various manufacturers.
I have some issues with how sloppy this thing is machined and assembled, the primer tubes flop around like a hotdog in a hallway, to the point that primers wont feed. I tried wrapping scotch tape around the primer tubes as a half assed bushing, but they dont have enough embeddment into the body to be stabilized. The entire upper seating assembly where the shell holder sits can be wiggled around and there is no means to tighten it. I'm talking loose, like shaking a half empty container of tic tacs loose.
Just curious if any of you have had the same issues with one of these or maybe ended up with a $700 lemon?

Got a google notification about this post. Created an account here specifically to respond to you.

Sorry you're having problems with our CPS. Sounds like you really don't like it.

Send it back unharmed... and we'll send you a full refund. After I get it and check it out/clean it up, I'll give it away on this thread.

Early prototypes were rock solid, with no wiggles anywhere. I learned very quickly that this often causes the last few primers to get hung up, as well as other more serious issues. Having things wiggle around is required in order to keep all primer types flowing nicely. The wiggles do not cause any non-uniformity in primer seating depth, as most users report an ES of 1.5 thousandths and a SD of somewhere around 5 ten thousandths. Obviously some advanced knowledge is required to get that level of performance, which I happily hand out to anyone that calls. There's always someone that thinks they can do things better, and that's fine... but the CPS in it's current form represents my life's work and countless prototypes to ensure that people are very happy with it. Yet there are always people that think the most complete precision rifle priming ecosystem needs something it doesn't need. (like a rubber band around the shuttle system) About once or twice a year, someone isn't happy. I consider myself pretty blessed about that, and don't sweat it. I have no illusions of being able to please everyone. I don't go trying to force people that don't like our stuff to like it. It's just not in my nature.

The ease of use and repeatable precision of the CPS is well documented and widely shared. I'm not going to try to defend things that I intentionally put into the design to solve extremely complex problems and try to condense the unbelievable success of this tool into a single forum post. It would be pointless anyway, as the people that already know about that and have experienced it will know I'm telling the truth, and the people that don't... won't believe it no matter what I say. They can go on believing their hand primer is "just as good."

I checked with staff, and no one has any record of missed voicemails, or emails left with no response. However, it IS hunting season. I hardly think we're infallible, especially me... especially now... However, we're pretty attentive about that sort of thing and have a very well earned reputation for everyone getting as much time from us and me as they want. We very often don't answer the phone, (because we are on it) but everyone gets called back. I'll leave room for technical error on our phone system, but no one else has complained of that. Either way, it's sad you weren't able to connect with us.

Seriously, send it back. You bought something, and it isn't what you want. While I hate for anyone to have that experience, the character of internet smears worded the way yours is are pretty well established, and there's no way for me to validate anything you say. I don't respond well to people talking as you have, even when they are frustrated. This being the internet, I'm not surprised... which would be why I basically never participate in forums any longer. I certainly anticipate getting dogpiled here, as is customary on every forum I've ever been on. I typically no longer engage with anyone that has anything disrespectful or harmful to say. Clearly you think you know more than I about how a priming system is suppose to be built, and I wouldn't suggest you listen to anyone that you don't agree with. I guess if you could have got me on the phone, I could have told you exactly why the CPS is the way it is, every single piece of it. I'd say we're pretty well past that now. So, send it back so I can give it to a guy here that wants it. You're not happy. Someone else will be. I'm not changing the design to solve your complaints, because it will guarantee more complaints. The goal is to get primers into their place, as uniformly as possible, as safe and effortlessly as possible. The goal isn't to make something appear good but actually not work by not wiggling because a few people don't like wiggling.

If being a "good dude" allows you to speak of me, my company/staff, and my products in this fashion... I guess I'd rather you say I wasn't a good dude. It's not pleasant reading your original post or your follow up posts, and I'm not going to act like it was. The fact that you think so little of me and the product that you think I should be selling this thing at significantly beneath our production costs, when 99.9%+ of people are overjoyed to have a CPS when it arrives, is even more unpleasant. Your postings represent everything I have come to despise about what the internet has made normal. No humility, no understanding, no grace, no latitude, nothing. The internet has normalized the dehumanization of everything it touches. I'm not equipped to handle the ingenuine nature of it all, which is why I don't participate any longer. If your goal was to make me feel unpleasant, congratulations, you've succeeded. If that wasn't your goal, then why would you speak in that way?


Primal Rights
18570 Chance Rd
Meadow SD 57644

^ Send it back there. Once we see it's been treated well, your check will hit the mail with no delay. I'll be sure to include a $35 bonus for your shipping cost. I'll include an extra $100 for your time.

Those of you that would like a free CPS, throw your name in the ring in this thread. Post your favorite hunting picture, and I'll pick one from the thread after a while.

God bless you all!

 

[pyrotechnic]

Got a google notification about this post. Created an account here specifically to respond to you.

Sorry you're having problems with our CPS. Sounds like you really don't like it.

Send it back unharmed... and we'll send you a full refund. After I get it and check it out/clean it up, I'll give it away on this thread.

Early prototypes were rock solid, with no wiggles anywhere. I learned very quickly that this often causes the last few primers to get hung up, as well as other more serious issues. Having things wiggle around is required in order to keep all primer types flowing nicely. The wiggles do not cause any non-uniformity in primer seating depth, as most users report an ES of 1.5 thousandths and a SD of somewhere around 5 ten thousandths. Obviously some advanced knowledge is required to get that level of performance, which I happily hand out to anyone that calls. There's always someone that thinks they can do things better, and that's fine... but the CPS in it's current form represents my life's work and countless prototypes to ensure that people are very happy with it. Yet there are always people that think the most complete precision rifle priming ecosystem needs something it doesn't need. (like a rubber band around the shuttle system) About once or twice a year, someone isn't happy. I consider myself pretty blessed about that, and don't sweat it. I have no illusions of being able to please everyone. I don't go trying to force people that don't like our stuff to like it. It's just not in my nature.

The ease of use and repeatable precision of the CPS is well documented and widely shared. I'm not going to try to defend things that I intentionally put into the design to solve extremely complex problems and try to condense the unbelievable success of this tool into a single forum post. It would be pointless anyway, as the people that already know about that and have experienced it will know I'm telling the truth, and the people that don't... won't believe it no matter what I say. They can go on believing their hand primer is "just as good."

I checked with staff, and no one has any record of missed voicemails, or emails left with no response. However, it IS hunting season. I hardly think we're infallible, especially me... especially now... However, we're pretty attentive about that sort of thing and have a very well earned reputation for everyone getting as much time from us and me as they want. We very often don't answer the phone, (because we are on it) but everyone gets called back. I'll leave room for technical error on our phone system, but no one else has complained of that. Either way, it's sad you weren't able to connect with us.

Seriously, send it back. You bought something, and it isn't what you want. While I hate for anyone to have that experience, the character of internet smears worded the way yours is are pretty well established, and there's no way for me to validate anything you say. I don't respond well to people talking as you have, even when they are frustrated. This being the internet, I'm not surprised... which would be why I basically never participate in forums any longer. I certainly anticipate getting dogpiled here, as is customary on every forum I've ever been on. I typically no longer engage with anyone that has anything disrespectful or harmful to say. Clearly you think you know more than I about how a priming system is suppose to be built, and I wouldn't suggest you listen to anyone that you don't agree with. I guess if you could have got me on the phone, I could have told you exactly why the CPS is the way it is, every single piece of it. I'd say we're pretty well past that now. So, send it back so I can give it to a guy here that wants it. You're not happy. Someone else will be. I'm not changing the design to solve your complaints, because it will guarantee more complaints. The goal is to get primers into their place, as uniformly as possible, as safe and effortlessly as possible. The goal isn't to make something appear good but actually not work by not wiggling because a few people don't like wiggling.

If being a "good dude" allows you to speak of me, my company/staff, and my products in this fashion... I guess I'd rather you say I wasn't a good dude. It's not pleasant reading your original post or your follow up posts, and I'm not going to act like it was. The fact that you think so little of me and the product that you think I should be selling this thing at significantly beneath our production costs, when 99.9%+ of people are overjoyed to have a CPS when it arrives, is even more unpleasant. Your postings represent everything I have come to despise about what the internet has made normal. No humility, no understanding, no grace, no latitude, nothing. The internet has normalized the dehumanization of everything it touches. I'm not equipped to handle the ingenuine nature of it all, which is why I don't participate any longer. If your goal was to make me feel unpleasant, congratulations, you've succeeded. If that wasn't your goal, then why would you speak in that way?


Primal Rights
18570 Chance Rd
Meadow SD 57644

^ Send it back there. Once we see it's been treated well, your check will hit the mail with no delay. I'll be sure to include a $35 bonus for your shipping cost. I'll include an extra $100 for your time.

Those of you that would like a free CPS, throw your name in the ring in this thread. Post your favorite hunting picture, and I'll pick one from the thread after a while.

God bless you all!

Wow!

Your response to a customer having issues is such a diatribe of condescension it left me speechless. Good luck with your business endeavors dude.

 

[MThuntr]

Yikes your post started out so well...sorry you don't like it and we'll make it right then BAM! paragraphs of hate and ranting and butthurt nonsense. Are you drunk?! I didn't see he was bashing or dehumanizing. In fact, he asked questions on experience because he couldn't get ahold of you for whatever reason then says YOU seemed like a good dude based on previous internet postings...that opinion definitely doesn't hold true after that post. You probably lost more customers posting this than gained.

 

[orkan]

Yikes your post started out so well...sorry you don't like it and we'll make it right then BAM! paragraphs of hate and ranting. Are you drunk?! I didn't see he was bashing or dehumanizing. In fact, he asked questions on experience then says YOU seemed like a good dude...that opinion apparently doesn't hold true after that post. You probably lost more customers posting this than gained.

I'm not trying to gain customers. I'm trying to help people shoot better.

I could have easily responded with the token corporate garbage we all hate. Could have been nice and lukewarm to make sure none are offended. You read my text in whatever tone you feel like, and don't think for a second of my intentions or how genuine I'm willing to be in a place where I KNOW people will dogpile me and misinterpret everything I say. Yet I'll receive no grace for that.

I'm not in here attacking the guy. I'm saying, sorry you don't like it, but that's how it is and I'm not going to change it, because it needs to be that way.

No one is willing to look objectively at both sides of things these days. Quick to judge, quicker to attack. I have all the empathy in the world for the guy that hates his CPS. Enough to give him a full refund, cover shipping, and pay him $100... yet somehow that's not enough? What else you want me to do? Say I agree with his complaints? Well I don't. I purposefully incorporated his complaints into the design to ensure reliability. You want me to be perfect and accept someone publicly ripping on my life's work too?

Well I can't.

Maybe someday... but not today. Go ahead. Attack all you like. Nothing I do is "just business." It's all personal. Funny how many of you claim you want that... but when you get it, be mad. Those that care to actually know me, know I try as hard as I can to help people in this discipline. This guy is clearly beyond upset with all his colorful metaphors, so that's not "lets make sales" time. That's "lets refund this customer" time. He wants everyone to know how much he doesn't like our product. So now everyone knows what happens when you don't like it. It's happened a grand total of 3-4 times in 8 years. I'll go to the ends of the earth for people being respectful when presenting their issues. When they don't, it's refund time. I don't want to help people that ask for help in unkind ways. I bet most of you don't either.

Not sure how this guy hasn't been able to get a hold of us. I've looked into it, and can come up with no explanation. That's my least favorite part of all this. I hate that it's happened.

Since no one else wants it here... Maybe I'll just give him a refund and tell him to keep it. He can give it away if he wants.

 

[orkan]

@millerkiller77
Since you can't get us on the phone or email, but this forum seems to be working... just shoot me a Private Message here with how you'd like to proceed. If you give a phone number, I'll get you called and you can tell me via phone if you prefer. I'm truly disappointed that we weren't able to connect before this, but I'll make sure you get taken care of promptly when you reach out.

 

[millerkiller77]

Got a google notification about this post. Created an account here specifically to respond to you.

Sorry you're having problems with our CPS. Sounds like you really don't like it.

Send it back unharmed... and we'll send you a full refund. After I get it and check it out/clean it up, I'll give it away on this thread.

Early prototypes were rock solid, with no wiggles anywhere. I learned very quickly that this often causes the last few primers to get hung up, as well as other more serious issues. Having things wiggle around is required in order to keep all primer types flowing nicely. The wiggles do not cause any non-uniformity in primer seating depth, as most users report an ES of 1.5 thousandths and a SD of somewhere around 5 ten thousandths. Obviously some advanced knowledge is required to get that level of performance, which I happily hand out to anyone that calls. There's always someone that thinks they can do things better, and that's fine... but the CPS in it's current form represents my life's work and countless prototypes to ensure that people are very happy with it. Yet there are always people that think the most complete precision rifle priming ecosystem needs something it doesn't need. (like a rubber band around the shuttle system) About once or twice a year, someone isn't happy. I consider myself pretty blessed about that, and don't sweat it. I have no illusions of being able to please everyone. I don't go trying to force people that don't like our stuff to like it. It's just not in my nature.

The ease of use and repeatable precision of the CPS is well documented and widely shared. I'm not going to try to defend things that I intentionally put into the design to solve extremely complex problems and try to condense the unbelievable success of this tool into a single forum post. It would be pointless anyway, as the people that already know about that and have experienced it will know I'm telling the truth, and the people that don't... won't believe it no matter what I say. They can go on believing their hand primer is "just as good."

I checked with staff, and no one has any record of missed voicemails, or emails left with no response. However, it IS hunting season. I hardly think we're infallible, especially me... especially now... However, we're pretty attentive about that sort of thing and have a very well earned reputation for everyone getting as much time from us and me as they want. We very often don't answer the phone, (because we are on it) but everyone gets called back. I'll leave room for technical error on our phone system, but no one else has complained of that. Either way, it's sad you weren't able to connect with us.

Seriously, send it back. You bought something, and it isn't what you want. While I hate for anyone to have that experience, the character of internet smears worded the way yours is are pretty well established, and there's no way for me to validate anything you say. I don't respond well to people talking as you have, even when they are frustrated. This being the internet, I'm not surprised... which would be why I basically never participate in forums any longer. I certainly anticipate getting dogpiled here, as is customary on every forum I've ever been on. I typically no longer engage with anyone that has anything disrespectful or harmful to say. Clearly you think you know more than I about how a priming system is suppose to be built, and I wouldn't suggest you listen to anyone that you don't agree with. I guess if you could have got me on the phone, I could have told you exactly why the CPS is the way it is, every single piece of it. I'd say we're pretty well past that now. So, send it back so I can give it to a guy here that wants it. You're not happy. Someone else will be. I'm not changing the design to solve your complaints, because it will guarantee more complaints. The goal is to get primers into their place, as uniformly as possible, as safe and effortlessly as possible. The goal isn't to make something appear good but actually not work by not wiggling because a few people don't like wiggling.

If being a "good dude" allows you to speak of me, my company/staff, and my products in this fashion... I guess I'd rather you say I wasn't a good dude. It's not pleasant reading your original post or your follow up posts, and I'm not going to act like it was. The fact that you think so little of me and the product that you think I should be selling this thing at significantly beneath our production costs, when 99.9%+ of people are overjoyed to have a CPS when it arrives, is even more unpleasant. Your postings represent everything I have come to despise about what the internet has made normal. No humility, no understanding, no grace, no latitude, nothing. The internet has normalized the dehumanization of everything it touches. I'm not equipped to handle the ingenuine nature of it all, which is why I don't participate any longer. If your goal was to make me feel unpleasant, congratulations, you've succeeded. If that wasn't your goal, then why would you speak in that way?


Primal Rights
18570 Chance Rd
Meadow SD 57644

^ Send it back there. Once we see it's been treated well, your check will hit the mail with no delay. I'll be sure to include a $35 bonus for your shipping cost. I'll include an extra $100 for your time.

Those of you that would like a free CPS, throw your name in the ring in this thread. Post your favorite hunting picture, and I'll pick one from the thread after a while.

God bless you all!

Wow! A simple pm would have sufficed , but here we are. That's a really interesting reply to an inquiry about a customer having questions/issues with one of your products. I guess I'll go dig through all my sent emails also..in the meantime, go look through your phone logs. Unbelievable.

 

[orkan]

Wow! A simple pm would have sufficed , but here we are. That's a really interesting reply to an inquiry about a customer having questions/issues with one of your products. I guess I'll go dig through all my sent emails also..in the meantime, go look through your phone logs. Unbelievable.
View attachment 292825

At no point did I say you didn't call or didn't email. Why create a straw man? Looks like it was a month ago, and we get too many calls in a day to go that far back in our logs without a lot of work. Doesn't matter, because it isn't like I don't believe you.

I'm not calling you a liar. I am saying it's unfortunate that we didn't connect before this. I am saying I didn't get the email/emails/voicemail. None of which I'm saying is your fault. It's hunting season... it's probably my fault. Not my staff, not my phone system, probably mine. I apologize for that and I hate that it happened.
...and I didn't get an inquiry, I got a google notification about a rant on how terrible our product is. I'm not even saying that you were unjustified in that after not being able to get a hold of me. Yet the tone of your post hit me all wrong.

I'm here now, we're connected... so lets get it handled shall we?

1) You don't like our CPS
2) I don't deal well with people speaking the way you were speaking about my products. I never have handled any of those situations well, and it's good that they happen very infrequently!
3) I'm going to try to make sure I get you happy in whatever way I can. Happy with the CPS or happy without it. Either way is fine.
4) I'm an actual human person, my company and my products is me in that sense, and I haven't yet been able to respond kindly to people making light of my lifes work, at least not 100% of the time. I care about whether you're having problems with it and I care about whether you talk badly about it without understanding why it needs to be how it is.
5) I'll do as much as I can do to get you happy. Want it for free? Done. Want to send it back and get full refund? Done. Want to have a 3hr conversation learning everything there is to know about the tool and how to use it to make your rifles shoot better? Done. Got some other idea? Lets hear it.

Just make a decision on what you want to do, and let me know. PM me your order number and your phone number and email so I know what order we're dealing with and so I can MAKE ABSOLUTE CERTAIN I get the loop closed with you. I won't be back to this thread, so I'll look for that PM.

 

[HONEYBADGER]

I have used and long been jealous of my buddie's CPS. It is a precision machine and works flawlessly. Glad to see this got worked out.