Addicting
Well-known member
Bill Busbice, “Star” of Outdoor Channel’s Wildgame Nation?
Poaching Rates: Any Guesses
- Thread starter Nameless Range
- Start date
Bill Busbice, “Star” of Outdoor Channel’s Wildgame Nation?
antlerradar
Well-known member
I think I would go with the just dirt bag low lives
The arrests of TV "stars" and the major poaching rings get the news headlines when the media covers those events. The more significant problem is the "opportunist poacher". He's the guy who doesn't set out to violate wildlife laws but : 1) The mallards are really flying. I've got my limit. Maybe I'll just shoot just a couple more 2) The walleyes are really biting... just a couple over my limit won't hurt anything. 3) That bull elk is only 50 yards over the line on private land... close enough for me 4) I shot a nice buck the first day of the season. I wait all year for deer hunting and hate to hunt only one day. I'll keep hunting with my wife's tag. 5) I've been trolling for 6 hours. This lake trout is only an inch short. I deserve to keep it. And the list goes on ...
LopeHunter
Well-known member
The scenarios you mention involve knowing the regulations and knowing you are not following the regulations. Still poaching.
Compare those scenarios to the technical breaking of the law such as shooting one minute before legal shooting time because your watch was slightly fast, being 3 feet too close to the two track when step away from the vehicle to shoot, shooting over an abandoned two-track in the bottom of a canyon, wearing your pack over the back of your orange vest therefore falling 200 square inches under the required amount of orange, taking a picture of the fallen elk before attaching the tag, etc. All violations in some states.
These are not game violations in most states: shooting at deer on top of ridgeline, shooting 600 yards in the wind, shooting a deer during rifle season after seeing the deer because an archery tag holder is starting a stalk on the deer, putting lawn chairs on 12 waterholes each with a note saying you will be hunting the waterhole that day, putting a game camera on public trail so take pictures of people without their consent, leaving camper on one of a few camp spots for weeks when only will hunt for one long weekend that season, yelling to buddy as you sit on idling ATVs 10 feet apart on a ridge during season, having your ranch hands ride ATVs on adjacent public land where there happens to be an elk herd that now runs onto private, etc.
The other sad thing to note on the central Oregon issue is that these were all FEMALE deer. In a state with nearly every unit way under management objective, the illegal harvest of adult females is only making things worse. Hard to lay blame to coyote and cougar when more poaching exceeds both of those combined.
However, the poaching rates have been highly variable across OR.
bobbydean
Well-known member
Mountain ranches in New Mexico. I have always felt, do not know, the illegals on the ranch were fed venison. I do not have a problem with it. Harvesting for food versus trophy is totally different! I see some sense to it. Trophy poachers should be hung by their scrotum!
Topgun 30-06
Active member
Have to disagree with you on two counts, that being poaching anything is wrong, as well as hiring illegals!
bobbydean
Well-known member
Hiring illegals is not OK. You are in Michigan and I am in New Mexico. Hell of a difference. Poaching is illegal and wrong. If your poaching for food, I will let it ride. I do have a conscience!
By as high as mighty as you want!
By as high as mighty as you want!
no difference were you live.....hiring illegals is b.s.…..poaching for food is the biggest crock of scit excuse ever....this day and age, buying food is cheaper than poaching...….bob
Topgun 30-06
Active member
Being "high and mighty" my butt! It's called following the laws that are on the books and if you "let it ride" then your morals need drastic attention. By the way, as the other member stated it makes no difference where you live and we probably have as many illegals here in MI in the big cities, as well as coming up to work in all the fields and orchards that are predominant along the west side of the state as there are in NM.
I think before you can estimate poaching rates, you have to define poaching. We’d probably all agree that deliberately shooting an animal out of season, trespassing to harvest an animal, using artificial light where prohibited, hunting in the wrong area or without a license are poaching. But what if someone:
1. Accidentally forgot their tag on the counter at home and didn’t realize it until they went to notch it after shooting their deer
2. Doesnt salvage a front quarter from a deer that’s mangled and inedible from having three bullets destroy it, but reg requires you to salvage all four quarters
3. Wounded a deer at the end of shooting light and used a flashlight to shoot it again 20 minutes later when it needed to be finished off.
Clear legal violations occur in all three cases, but do they count as “poaching”? My point is poaching rates could vary widely depending on how someone chooses to define the word.
1. Accidentally forgot their tag on the counter at home and didn’t realize it until they went to notch it after shooting their deer
2. Doesnt salvage a front quarter from a deer that’s mangled and inedible from having three bullets destroy it, but reg requires you to salvage all four quarters
3. Wounded a deer at the end of shooting light and used a flashlight to shoot it again 20 minutes later when it needed to be finished off.
Clear legal violations occur in all three cases, but do they count as “poaching”? My point is poaching rates could vary widely depending on how someone chooses to define the word.
I read an article sometime ago that discussed compliance rates when states moved away from check stations to call in systems for checking in your deer. There were 3 states involved in the study, I can only remember two which were Louisiana and New York. All three states had a similar compliance rate of 50%. (all within 10%). I was astounded. That's half of the people who bought tags did not call in their deer. Deer shot by guys that never buy a license or tag do not even factor into this.
the nikster
Well-known member
I have hunted or fished almost every year of the last 40. I wish I could say I never saw an incident of poaching, technical or otherwise. I hunt and fish with good people. Good people rationalize every day.
How do we stop it?
How do we stop it?
easy......make the price to high to risk it......bob
antlerradar
Well-known member
Exactly. I can think of several poachers that were fined very little and or plead their case to much lesser sentence. Exhibit A could be that legislator that shot the extra buck south west of Billings.
archer wapiti
Member
It's my impression based on several lines of evidence that you have to be a real dumbass to get caught here.
Every year NMDGF sends us emails about roadblocks during hunting seasons. I've not encountered one. You'd have to be real unlucky to run into one while you're breaking the law, and if you're poaching out of season, odds of being caught are even lower. There's just not the funding to enforce it I suppose.
I hear rumors about locals poaching in certain rural areas, enforcement turns a blind eye is the allegation by those I hear the rumors from. Enforcement is local too. Foxes guarding the henhouse sort of scenario.
Maybe putting a stop to this wouldn't increase the number of tags as a couple of folks have suggested, but at least would increase the number of encounters when we're out there.
Every year NMDGF sends us emails about roadblocks during hunting seasons. I've not encountered one. You'd have to be real unlucky to run into one while you're breaking the law, and if you're poaching out of season, odds of being caught are even lower. There's just not the funding to enforce it I suppose.
I hear rumors about locals poaching in certain rural areas, enforcement turns a blind eye is the allegation by those I hear the rumors from. Enforcement is local too. Foxes guarding the henhouse sort of scenario.
Maybe putting a stop to this wouldn't increase the number of tags as a couple of folks have suggested, but at least would increase the number of encounters when we're out there.
Dan O
Well-known member
Until the courts enact real punishment ( jail time ) there is very little to give reason to stop poaching. But then again it's the same for many repeat offenders deferred, suspended sentences or small fines. Heck even the fines for trophy animals is small change for some. For those their freedom is the only thing they value and that needs to be taken from them.
For those that look away from the issue because the offender is poaching for food or an illegal alien well in my opinion they are part of the problem.
Dan
For those that look away from the issue because the offender is poaching for food or an illegal alien well in my opinion they are part of the problem.
Dan
NMGuy
Well-known member
Archer is right, encounters with NMGF are few and far between. I've only ever had one encounter with a warden while big game hunting. I've been checked twice while hunting birds and a lot more often while fishing. At that rate, there is very little deterrent against poaching. I've never seen one of these infamous roadblocks they always advertise.
I think NM (and other states) could do more to prevent poaching just by giving the sense that the wardens are out there. NM used to post their cold and solved poaching cases on their website, but they haven't posted anything new in over two years. In my mind, if you advertise that you are chasing and catching poachers, some people will adjust their behavior so their mugshot doesn't end up on NMGF website. States also have to be smart about things like tags. One of the dumbest things I've ever seen was NM's brilliant idea to let people print their own licenses without a carcass tag. That almost invites people to shoot multiple deer/elk/antelope. Luckily that stupid system is gone and now we have carcass tags...even if they are gigantic.
I'm with others, make the punishment more severe, and make game entities more visible. That's about the best they can do without increasing the number of wardens.
I think NM (and other states) could do more to prevent poaching just by giving the sense that the wardens are out there. NM used to post their cold and solved poaching cases on their website, but they haven't posted anything new in over two years. In my mind, if you advertise that you are chasing and catching poachers, some people will adjust their behavior so their mugshot doesn't end up on NMGF website. States also have to be smart about things like tags. One of the dumbest things I've ever seen was NM's brilliant idea to let people print their own licenses without a carcass tag. That almost invites people to shoot multiple deer/elk/antelope. Luckily that stupid system is gone and now we have carcass tags...even if they are gigantic.
I'm with others, make the punishment more severe, and make game entities more visible. That's about the best they can do without increasing the number of wardens.
bigskyblueman
Member
Rampant....
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