Poacher caught
- Thread starter Hilljackoutlaw
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azelkhntr
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You're not changing the subject at all. I am surprised he wasn't hit with trophy fee fines tho. If this is his first criminal conviction then he got hammered hard. You cant punish someone extrajudicially nor should we. I imagine he's persona non grata around town.
Lyfter1013
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I get what ur saying For a lot of us we are nowhere near the areas this is happening in and don’t even find out til after the punishments been handed down. And these judges and prosecutors aren’t local to our districts. But it’s not just wildlife crimes. My point was more towards how can we expect these guys to have harsh punishments when even more serious crimes are committed and not punished harshly. But like I said in my first post that’s just opening a rabbit hole for this thread to get derailed quickly.
but it would be nice to see a couple of these guys be made an example of. It would probably make most of us sick if we knew how many of these guys get away with this kind of thing and noone ever even has an idea.
Hilljackoutlaw
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Horse shit...he sold pelts for $1000 apiece and was fined $1825??? What is the license revoked matter? He does what he wants anyways. When it comes to hunting the guy is a piece of shit. That's a quote from a local.
LuketheDog
Well-known member
It doesn't matter a bit, it's absolutely no different than most firearm regulations. The criminals don't change their habits at all, my money says he gets busted again within 5 years...
My money says he learned from this: now he knows how he screwed up keeps doing it and never gets caught again
idelkslayer
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His monetary penalties definitely leave much to be desired. As a minimum I don't understand how he can be fined less than the value of the pelts he sold.
In terms of license loss. 9 and 15 years sounds pretty good. He has a 5 year old son who he won't be able to take hunting for his first couple years. I know, I can already hear the rebuttals "Good, now he can't teach his son how to poach" or "He was breaking the law before so he'll just keep on doing it". In the case of the latter I don't think anyone who doesn't know him personally could legitimately make that assumption. In the former case, it is a safer assumption that had he not been caught he would have continued and taught the same casual disregard for law and ethics to his son. Now there is a better chance that he will correct his actions and teach his son a strict adherence to hunting/trapping regulations.
I don't know the guy personally but I can allow for redemption and for people to learn from their mistakes. If this had been me, I know for certain that the loss of money and time wouldn't hurt nearly as bad as the hunting ban. Which for those of you who don't know and couldn't be bothered to check before piling on, Idaho is part of the "Interstate Wildlife Violators Compact" which currently has 45 member States with 4 in the process of joining which will leave Hawaii as the only nonmember State.
I think most of the vitriol on this thread should be directed at prosecutors and judges who allow as much leniency as they do in these cases. The laws on the books clearly allow for greater punishments but the prosecutors and courts routinely give lenient sentences.
In terms of license loss. 9 and 15 years sounds pretty good. He has a 5 year old son who he won't be able to take hunting for his first couple years. I know, I can already hear the rebuttals "Good, now he can't teach his son how to poach" or "He was breaking the law before so he'll just keep on doing it". In the case of the latter I don't think anyone who doesn't know him personally could legitimately make that assumption. In the former case, it is a safer assumption that had he not been caught he would have continued and taught the same casual disregard for law and ethics to his son. Now there is a better chance that he will correct his actions and teach his son a strict adherence to hunting/trapping regulations.
I don't know the guy personally but I can allow for redemption and for people to learn from their mistakes. If this had been me, I know for certain that the loss of money and time wouldn't hurt nearly as bad as the hunting ban. Which for those of you who don't know and couldn't be bothered to check before piling on, Idaho is part of the "Interstate Wildlife Violators Compact" which currently has 45 member States with 4 in the process of joining which will leave Hawaii as the only nonmember State.
I think most of the vitriol on this thread should be directed at prosecutors and judges who allow as much leniency as they do in these cases. The laws on the books clearly allow for greater punishments but the prosecutors and courts routinely give lenient sentences.
Losing_Sanity
Well-known member
As always, if he blatantly broke the laws that he got caught for, there are others he has not been discovered. And not just Fish and Game laws. He needs to be locked up! To me, it's not nearly enough for what he has been convicted of. Debt under paid to society....
Contrast his punishment with this one in New Mexico.
www.wildlife.state.nm.us
Wildlife crimes net $74,000 in restitution - New Mexico Department of Game & Fish
New Mexico Department of Game and Fish Public contact, Information Center: (888) 248-6866 Media contact, […]
www.wildlife.state.nm.us
Lyfter1013
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Yea buddy NM setting the toneContrast his punishment with this one in New Mexico.
Wildlife crimes net $74,000 in restitution - New Mexico Department of Game & Fish
New Mexico Department of Game and Fish Public contact, Information Center: (888) 248-6866 Media contact, […]
seeth07
Well-known member
I'm not offering a personal opinion here on the scale of the punishment but one thing everyone needs to remember with any news article is that the author has the ability to use words and statistics easily to express a point.
I remember a few years ago of a case where a person got caught doing something illegal, he got a minor fine and all the articles wrote told the story of this horrible person that needed his life ruined by this. Later I found out from a friend that actually knew the guy that most of what was wrote was BS and his illegal action was actually an honest mistake and the trouble came because he chose to hide it and not report it.
Not saying that's the case here, just that often the punishment is generally not far off.
I remember a few years ago of a case where a person got caught doing something illegal, he got a minor fine and all the articles wrote told the story of this horrible person that needed his life ruined by this. Later I found out from a friend that actually knew the guy that most of what was wrote was BS and his illegal action was actually an honest mistake and the trouble came because he chose to hide it and not report it.
Not saying that's the case here, just that often the punishment is generally not far off.
Losing_Sanity
Well-known member
Nope... This guy knew exactly what he was doing and he has no respect for others. I'm sure someone thinks he is a great guy that got the raw end, but I don't. And more often than not, the punishment is not even close to enough. IMO...
shootbrownelk
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How many times has he poached before and gotten away with it? This isn't his first go round with poaching. That sentence he got was a joke IMO. Did they at least confiscate the trophy heads?
44hunter45
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Every road hunter is telling someone at home he’s been hunting hard.
That made my day. One down......
Valley1320
Well-known member
Ya I saw that and loved that!!!!!Contrast his punishment with this one in New Mexico.
Wildlife crimes net $74,000 in restitution - New Mexico Department of Game & Fish
New Mexico Department of Game and Fish Public contact, Information Center: (888) 248-6866 Media contact, […]
I hear ya on the quick to judgment aspect. And I don't know what kind of person this guy is. All I'm saying is, well, revoking his licenses seems a pretty weak punishment to me. From the article, in addition to illegally trapping numerous bobcats, he took mule deer in at least three illegal ways:
"These deer had been killed by Allen after legal hours, in closed seasons and using another’s deer tag after already killing a deer and using his own."
Doesn't matter to me if he's otherwise the nicest guy in the world. That amount of blatant disregard for game laws hurts the state, hurts other hunters (he's illegally removing opportunities from them), and hurts our reputations as hunters. And for that amount of violations, I just would have expected a little more.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
I like the idea of having to repay the State for the cost of the investigation.Contrast his punishment with this one in New Mexico.
Wildlife crimes net $74,000 in restitution - New Mexico Department of Game & Fish
New Mexico Department of Game and Fish Public contact, Information Center: (888) 248-6866 Media contact, […]
Losing_Sanity
Well-known member
I agree... Some crimes of this nature never get the full extent of an investigation due to the cost. There are processes that can speed up the investigation, or that can make it a solid case, that get ignored due to the cost. Officers need to rely on old school techniques, long hours, and verbal statements to make the case. Re-cooping the cost would help a lot, if it ever gets paid.
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