Pistols versus Big Bears

[Mustangs Rule]

In “Big Game Animals of North America” Jack O’Connor describes a showdown between a bad coastal brown bear a guide and an Alaska Game Warden. One had 30-06 with over 3000 ft. pounds of energy and the other a 300 win mag with just under 4000 pounds.



The bear attacked. Both fired, 7,000 pounds. The bear got up. Two more shots. Now 14,000 pounds.



The bear got up, one more shot with the 300WM ended the bear,18,000 pounds of energy. All shots were good.



Inland grizzlies are about half the size but are loaded with lots more fight chemistry.



A 10mm is little more powerful than a 357. Over 600 ft. pounds. A 44 mag gets close to 1000 pounds, half the power of 30-30.



The best ever study about using firearms, rifles too, for defense versus grizzlies, was done a few years ago.



40% of the time the shooter gets serious hurt and the bear gets injured almost a 100% of the time.



With bear spray 98% of the time with all factors considered, even wind, the person comes away unhurt.



Talking about using little pistols on big bears is like 15 year old boys bragging about how they would handle the Playboy Playmate of the year.



Nothing wrong with gun as backup. But wake up and smell the bear spray, it really works.

 

[Tradewind]

well, that settles it...with little pistols and playmates to boot

 

[JLS]

 

[44hunter45]

Citation?
70% of statistics are made up.

 

[ignorethefringes]

I counter with my own unverified source

Defense Against Bears with Pistols: 97% Success rate, 37 incidents by Caliber

Using a pistol to defend against bear attacks seems to be a viable option.

www.ammoland.com

 

[Sytes]

T'is the redux season...

 

[HandgunHunter]

Too bad a number of handgun hunters have taken bears that made book

 

[std7mag]

Really don't want to waste perfectly good bear spray on a bunch of coyotes...

 

[Mustangs Rule]

Too bad a number of handgun hunters have taken bears that made book

You really do know there is a huge difference between taking a careful well placed shot at a relaxed predator that is not charged with flight or fight internal chemistry,,,and taking a shot hasty shot at one that is hot wired. You know that.

 

[HandgunHunter]

You really do know there is a huge difference between taking a careful well placed shot at a relaxed predator that is not charged with flight or fight internal chemistry,,,and taking a shot hasty shot at one that is hot wired. You know that.

You can’t factory handgun vs rifle vs bear spray without taking into account the skill of the person.

There are plenty of writings from the past with witnesses of handgun hunters shooting charging animals. Most were in Africa….but they still require a well placed brain stem shot.

You can just use google….Larry Kelly and JD Jones and find enough facts to back that one…..

 

[Dakotakid]

Sounds like good rational for a handgun only season.
Fairchase and selective removal.
Heck, make it blackpowder traditional for even more sporting.

 

[BackofBeyond]

 

[Panda Bear]

You can’t factor--- handgun vs rifle vs bear spray without taking into account the skill of the person.

This !!!!

Salmonchaser has been confronting coastal brown bears for many years and off the top of my head I forget exactly how many he has sprayed, but I think he only had to shot one. So yes, spray and being at least as smart aa the bear is important. Everyone should have bear spray with them.

Up here the Tundra Grizzly is by far the most aggressive, even more so than the Polar. There are approx 20 DLP's registered each year. Probably 80 to 90 percent of them are with a rifle, but more often than not the caliber of rifle will be a 22, 223, or 243, which is what they are carrying to harvest seals. The pistol might come in to play more often when running a trap line, but also on the tundra/ice for seals.

In your opening post, you mentioned 18000 pounds of energy and "all shots were good" IMHO--apparently not ! I have seen many charging bears, on the tundra, on the coast, on the ice, in the mountains, fold up with one shot from calibers much less than 30-06 and 300 win mag.

Bear Spray works
Handguns work
Rifles work
Being bear aware works best for us, but we still practice, practice practice on moving targets

Sounds like good rational for a handgun only season.
Fairchase and selective removal.
Heck, make it blackpowder traditional for even more sporting.

my ancestors hunted bears with spears However this may be why we are a 'minority" population

 

[HandgunHunter]

This !!!!

Salmonchaser has been confronting coastal brown bears for many years and off the top of my head I forget exactly how many he has sprayed, but I think he only had to shot one. So yes, spray and being at least as smart aa the bear is important. Everyone should have bear spray with them.

Up here the Tundra Grizzly is by far the most aggressive, even more so than the Polar. There are approx 20 DLP's registered each year. Probably 80 to 90 percent of them are with a rifle, but more often than not the caliber of rifle will be a 22, 223, or 243, which is what they are carrying to harvest seals. The pistol might come in to play more often when running a trap line, but also on the tundra/ice for seals.

In your opening post, you mentioned 18000 pounds of energy and "all shots were good" IMHO--apparently not ! I have seen many charging bears, on the tundra, on the coast, on the ice, in the mountains, fold up with one shot from calibers much less than 30-06 and 300 win mag.

Bear Spray works
Handguns work
Rifles work
Being bear aware works best for us, but we still practice, practice practice on moving targets



my ancestors hunted bears with spears However this may be why we are a 'minority" population

Ding ding! All of the rifle shots quoted in the original post were not “good” shots. The only shot that stops a charge guaranteed is a brain stem shot. A little 3-4” triangle target……doesn’t matter how much “energy” (which is a horrible number to base lethality on) was dumped into an animal.

In firearms season I only hunt with handguns…….but I also carry bear spray….it also works good to spice up the backpacking meals.

 

[noharleyyet]

99.5% of the time Jason Statham is a statistical anomaly...

 

[Ben Lamb]

99.5% of the time Jason Statham is a statistical anomaly...

I generally carry spray, but I'm also carrying 6 240 grain hardcasts in the 44 when conditions dictate. South Fork of the Shoshone on a windy day will teach you all you need to know about the terminal velocity of bear spray into a headwind.

Spray is more effective, until the wind picks up.

 

[Panda Bear]

99.5% of the time Jason Statham is a statistical anomaly...

-

View attachment 193165

I generally carry spray, but I'm also carrying 6 240 grain hardcasts in the 44 when conditions dictate. South Fork of the Shoshone on a windy day will teach you all you need to know about the terminal velocity of bear spray into a headwind.

Spray is more effective, until the wind picks up.

99% of the time when April, Ken, Ben make a post I have to ask for clarification, especially when they talk about "ancient" history, the 60.s and 70's ( In Aprils case the 50's )

But I got this one and agree. And his choice of mates is not all bad either Very good hunter, he must drive a muscle car

 

[Talk2elk]

I carry both. Spray first then do what you can.

 

[Mustangs Rule]

This !!!!

Salmonchaser has been confronting coastal brown bears for many years and off the top of my head I forget exactly how many he has sprayed, but I think he only had to shot one. So yes, spray and being at least as smart aa the bear is important. Everyone should have bear spray with them.

Up here the Tundra Grizzly is by far the most aggressive, even more so than the Polar. There are approx 20 DLP's registered each year. Probably 80 to 90 percent of them are with a rifle, but more often than not the caliber of rifle will be a 22, 223, or 243, which is what they are carrying to harvest seals. The pistol might come in to play more often when running a trap line, but also on the tundra/ice for seals.

In your opening post, you mentioned 18000 pounds of energy and "all shots were good" IMHO--apparently not ! I have seen many charging bears, on the tundra, on the coast, on the ice, in the mountains, fold up with one shot from calibers much less than 30-06 and 300 win mag.

Bear Spray works
Handguns work
Rifles work
Being bear aware works best for us, but we still practice, practice practice on moving targets



my ancestors hunted bears with spears However this may be why we are a 'minority" population

I recall reading how after the bear was killed and skinned and dressed out they saw that all the shots went right into the heart area in group the size of a fist. That bear really was "dead" after the first shot.

As a hunter I aways avoid the heart shot if at all possible.. I like a double lung shot high so shock is also transfered to the spine.

Animals usially drop like a stone with this shot. Heart shot animals can run much farther in my experience. Far enough to have them disappear in the bush.

I have a concealed weapons permit for many decades and have taken plenty of classes and had field shooting courses taught by instructors held in high regard by the shooting community because of thier law enforcemnet bakground.

In one class my instuctor was offereing examples of how people shot reacted.

I one case a female police offered took a shot right in her heart with a 357. She move around the vehicle, returned fire, kiiled the bad guy then collapsed. The paramedics had just arrived, gave her oxygen,,,took her to a hospital and she recieved a heart transplant.

People or bears can be dead on thier feet with a heart shot and still be deadly.

The idea that so many in favor of using a pistol or even a rifle as bear defence, have is that they can kill a bear instanly with a brain or spine shot.

Under the pressure of the momnent,,,having this level of skill is pretty much fantasy.

Some years ago I had a choice,,,come back to camp via a canyon where I saw fresh tracks of a sow grizz and her cub in mud, or go way up and around,,,an extra hour and get bak to camp way after dark.

I re-examimed the tracks,,,The intermediate pads were very straight. the toe pattern also was. The toes were fat with little space between them, I could see the webbing between the toes and the claws were long and straight,,,,grizz for sure.

I had aleady done all the research on the how effcetive bear spray was..I shouldered my 30-06, kept my bear spray right in my hands and made noise as i walked back to camp using the same trail as the grizz did.

 

[MTLabrador]

I recall reading how after the bear was killed and skinned and dressed out they saw that all the shots went right into the heart area in group the size of a fist. That bear really was "dead" after the first shot.

As a hunter I aways avoid the heart shot if at all possible.. I like a double lung shot high so shock is also transfered to the spine.

Animals usially drop like a stone with this shot. Heart shot animals can run much farther in my experience. Far enough to have them disappear in the bush.

I have a concealed weapons permit for many decades and have taken plenty of classes and had field shooting courses taught by instructors held in high regard by the shooting community because of thier law enforcemnet bakground.

In one class my instuctor was offereing examples of how people shot reacted.

I one case a female police offered took a shot right in her heart with a 357. She move around the vehicle, returned fire, kiiled the bad guy then collapsed. The paramedics had just arrived, gave her oxygen,,,took her to a hospital and she recieved a heart transplant.

People or bears can be dead on thier feet with a heart shot and still be deadly.

The idea that so many in favor of using a pistol or even a rifle as bear defence, have is that they can kill a bear instanly with a brain or spine shot.

Under the pressure of the momnent,,,having this level of skill is pretty much fantasy.

Some years ago I had a choice,,,come back to camp via a canyon where I saw fresh tracks of a sow grizz and her cub in mud, or go way up and around,,,an extra hour and get bak to camp way after dark.

I re-examimed the tracks,,,The intermediate pads were very straight. the toe pattern also was. The toes were fat with little space between them, I could see the webbing between the toes and the claws were long and straight,,,,grizz for sure.

I had aleady done all the research on the how effcetive bear spray was..I shouldered my 30-06, kept my bear spray right in my hands and made noise as i walked back to camp using the same trail as the grizz did.

And that is why if you are trying to stop a bear with a handgun you are going to need to hit the brain.