Oregon Deer Game farm Question...

[Tom]

Does Montana charge the elk owners/ranchers a tax per animal? If they do, isn't that thier version of how to pay for the management problems the state has to deal with because those elk are part of Montana state business.

Without knowing all the details of the Montana budget, its hard to complain about the expenses for those elk and have it be a very meaningful complaint.

I remember reading a bunch of proposed bills to increase that tax when I-187 or 137 or whatever it was passed, but I don't know what happened, I don't think they got rid of the tax, did they? There's a tax for them, it covers Montana's problems. If its not enough, increase the tax again, right?

They've always had the tax to cover the elk management expenses as far as I know, but I sure don't live there like some do here, so I just get bits and pieces of info.

 

[BuzzH]

In Montana all elk are considered wildlife and HAVE to be managed by the MTFWP. The elk farm freaks wanted to classify elk as "livestock", which would have left control of the mutant elk with the Department of livestock. Even the Republican Governor saw that would be a huge mistake and struck that down.

The funny thing is, all the years before I-137 hit the ballot the welfare elk farmers had NO complaints that the MTFWP was funding the ENTIRE administration of their mutant elk farms with hunting license dollars. No problem at all, in fact they thought it was a good deal!

So, to answer your question, since elk are still classified as wildlife they have to be controlled by the MTFWP...and the FWP budget comes from hunter dollars.

Tom is completely out in left field with his imaginary MT tax the elkfarmers pay.

When MY license dollars are spent to administer game farms...dont be surprised when the people flipping the bill (hunters) push legislation on what should and shouldnt happen with your game farm. Since hunters have paid the bills from the start, they absolutely should have a say.

The funding for the adminstration of the game farms is one BIG reason the sportsmen of Montana passed I-137...and I dont blame them for doing so. Matter of fact its the ONLY ballot initiative I've personally every gathered signatures for.

 

[elkfarmer]

So Buzzh, Sounds to me a bunch of mutant huntin freaks with thier head in thier a$$ wanted it that way. If the elk were livestock then the $$$$ wouldn't be coming out of your hunting licence $$$, right? Thats the way I read it.


Thats what it is, you guys are so pissed off because you got suckered by your own.. So Buzz, how did they do it to you, who suckered you in making you think "we have to keep these elk as wildlife". You got caught up hump the wrong one.

Welfare, you have no idea what welfare is and what a terrible system it is. I will guarrentee there isn't one welfare elk farm out there.


SS- hump hump next

 

[Tom]

Well, if they don't want to have an animal tax, don't want the Ag.dept. to run them, then they have the annual liscense fee. It goes up with the number of animals, its what Montana citizens see fit to manage the elk farms you have there.

Check out this info., it talks about it.
http://www.cfc.umt.edu/students/projects/elkranching/regulations.htm

It gives the number of elk ranches in lots of states all over the country. Some of these states must have a way to make it work better, so Montana could benefit from that, eh?

 

[Moosie]

How can you guys argue with someone like Tom, He wins every arguement he gets in I think. I tried once and learned my lesson !!!

 

[Tom]

I'm not argueing, I'm just pointing out the facts. haha, trying to get the facts straight. Its a fact, Montana charges people for the elk farm liscense on a yearly basis and they charge for for more elk, at least they did when that link was created, if the link is correct. So, isn't that the money collected to manage the elk farms there, the liscense dollars? Hopefully, Montana game and fish can get some of it, if that's what its for and they spend money on the management. Have those increased since 1995?

 

[BuzzH]

Tom,

Keep researching, MT hunters have payed out over a million administering game farms in Montana.

The fees they pay the MTFWP are so pathetic, it doesnt even cover the costs of issuing the game farm permit.

Montana hunters handled this situation perfectly, IMO. Elk are still classified as wildlife and not livestock...keeping control of them with the FWP. That makes things extremely difficult for the welfare elk farmers to get their way on anything to do with elkfarms. The FWP is tough on them as far as making sure all regulations are followed, etc.

Plus, when Montana hunters found out what they had paid out in WELFARE to the elk farmers in Montana...it made passing I-143 a snap.

That legislation has all but stopped elk farming in Montana, and rightfully so. The existing game farm permits are NOT transferable, shooter operations are illegal, and now with CWD and brucelosis...transporting elk across state lines is tough if not impossible.

The welfare elk farmers in Montana got exactly what they deserved

Check out this article...exactly why MTFWP kept control of the elk farms in Montana. The Dept. of Livestock, State Dept. of Agriculture, etc. are much too corrupt to be trusted.

Nice to see WY and MT putting some pressure on Idaho...

Montana gov to Idaho: Ban game farms

By CHRISTOPHER SMITH
Associated Press writer



[oas:casperstartribune.net/news/wyoming:Middle1]
BOISE, Idaho -- Montana Gov. Brian Schweitzer has joined Wyoming's chief executive in calling on Idaho lawmakers to ban wild game farms and private hunting reserves to protect the health of Yellowstone's wild elk herds.

"In Montana, we said it's a bad idea to pen up a bunch of elk, feed them oats and have fat bankers from New York City shoot them while they've got their heads in a grain bucket," Schweitzer said Wednesday during an interview in the Boise offices of The Associated Press.

In Idaho to campaign for Democrats running for governor and Congress, Schweitzer said he wholeheartedly agreed with Wyoming Gov. Dave Freudenthal's Oct. 5 letter to Idaho Gov. Jim Risch asking him to urge lawmakers to outlaw domestic elk breeding.

"You can quote the Montana governor as saying, 'Dang tootin',"' Schweitzer said. "For people who don't know, that means the affirmative."

Risch signed an executive order Sept. 7 ordering the "immediate destruction" of an estimated 160 domesticated elk that escaped in August from the Chief Joseph private hunting reserve operated by veterinarian Rex Rammell near Ashton, not far from the Wyoming border and Yellowstone National Park. The park covers portions of Idaho, Montana and Wyoming.

While special hunts by state agents and the public had killed 33 of the escaped elk as of Wednesday, Idaho Fish and Game biologists believe the domesticated animals already have crossbred with wild herds.

Elk farming and "shooter bull" hunting operations are banned in Wyoming and Montana. Schweitzer said Idaho should follow suit to protect the three states' shared resource of Yellowstone's wild elk herds.

"You've got a bad actor who's not very good at fixing a fence, your state agencies fined him $750,000, and the folks supposed to represent the people of Idaho, your Legislature, said 'Oh, let's let him off the hook,"' said Schweitzer, referring to a 2002 vote by Idaho lawmakers to forgive fines against Rammell imposed by the Idaho Department of Agriculture for numerous violations. "Now, you've got a problem, but it's our problem too because the Yellowstone Basin is interconnected."

Leaders of Idaho's elk farming and hunting reserve industry are challenging the claims by Schweitzer and Freudenthal that banning domestic elk pens would protect the health of wild herds.

"It concerns me these governors come out and say this when they have so much disease in their own wild herds," said Kent Bagley, a board member of the Idaho Elk Breeders Association who operates the Teton Mountain Ranch elk farm in Victor, near Yellowstone National Park. "Look how many counties in Wyoming have found chronic wasting disease in their wild elk, and yet they have no game farms. It's flawed logic."

Chronic wasting disease has been detected in elk in southeastern Wyoming, and authorities believe it is spreading in that state's wildlife population. Some herds of wild elk in Montana have tested positive for brucellosis, a disease that can cause elk -- and domestic cows -- to abort.

Brucellosis also has been found in wild elk in eastern Idaho, but there has not been a case of chronic wasting disease among wild deer or elk in Idaho, according to the state Department of Fish and Game.

Bagley said elk breeders plan to lobby Idaho legislators in the 2007 session to reject efforts to outlaw their game farms and private hunting parks. Risch supports a ban, but his term expires before the Legislature convenes in January. The two major party candidates running for Idaho governor, Republican Rep. C.L. "Butch" Otter and Democrat Jerry Brady, have said they would sign legislation prohibiting the domestic elk businesses in Idaho.

"It's going to be a constant battle," said Bagley. "We are under pretty strict regulation now and are just trying to maintain our lifestyle."

 

[Calif. Hunter]

Buzz - when was that article printed? It mentions an executive order signed September 7, so it must be from last year? What has happened since - any further progress in Idaho?

 

[Washington Hunter]

There were quite a few proposed bills that would have restricted and regulated elk farms in various ways in Idaho.

I don't think any of them passed. |oo

 

[Tom]

Disease is all over, its just easier to detect and maybe stop in a fence. Look at this, any comments on it? Its a cut and paste from that elk brucel. thread.
**********************
Here's an article about it in elk, its spread was related to the major piles of supplemental feeding over important times. If they let people supplemental feed a bale here a bale there all over the place, wouldn't that help prevent the spread? Like the baiting food down here, but for elk, during the winter only (i.e. the stress time up there), up there.

http://nrmsc.usgs.gov/products/Cross_et_al_draft2007.pdf

 

[BuzzH]

Montana did the smart thing, dissolve the welfare elk farms.

The game farm permits are non-transferable and they dont allow shooting operations.

The number of game farms in MT have declined dramatically...within 40-50 years there will not be game farms in Montana.

Thats what all Western States need to do...hopefully Idaho passes some legislation similar to Montanas.

Bye-Bye game farms.

 

[Curly]

Tom, I don't think that link is working.

I agree with Buzz; all Western States need to make sure game farms go away.

 

[DRAFTSTUD]

Why just Western? John

 

[Tom]

I think getting rid of all of them in western states is a bit extreme and unwarranted and having a popular vote at near 51% to 49% in one state doesn't make it right.

I found and edited the link. The Cross part is

Cross_et_al_draft2007.pdf

The first part is www.nrmsc.usgs.gov/products/ if it doesn't work now, try cutting and pasting those two pieces together in the web address.

Draftstud, there's a lot of elk ones in a lot of states and that doesn't count the non-elk ones and lots of them are doing great and have been doing great.

 

[Curly]

Draftstud, I say western because there are plenty of wild elk and lots of wide open spaces. Why do we need game farms? You can go out and see elk in the wild if you want to see an elk; no reason to have farm raised elk back here.

If elkfarmers arguement is that people back there like to go see the elk on his farm and there is no wild elk around, then maybe the people of his state want to give up on having wild elk; in that case maybe an elk farm is ok. The east is more populated and a lot of people don't like elk getting in their yards and tearing-up there landscaping, so wild elk is probably not desirable.

Also, I didn't say eastern states because the western states are the only ones that I ever plan to hunt. Maybe its a good thing to have some eastern states with game farm elk; maybe it keeps some people from heading west to hunt them.

It might seem like I'm getting off topic here, but ..........I would loosely equate elk farming with fish hatcheries. When hatchery fish are dumped in a lake or stream to supplement the native fish, fishermen are pleased that they can go catch fish; but then no one notices that the native fish population is in trouble. If there were no hatcheries, and very few fish to be caught, then maybe some of the environmental issues, overharvest, etc. would be more of the focus and the native fish could be helped.

So, you can see where I'm going here: If everyone had the attidute that elk should be considered livestock, and you can just go shoot one on a farm somewhere, then when there are issues that affect the wild elk, you just might not care as much since you can just farm them and hunt them on a ranch anyway.

Here is a list of states that I hate to see elk farming happen in: WA, OR, CA, NV, NM, CO, SD, ND, WY, MT, ID, UT, AZ. Of course WA is the only state that I have any say in, so it doesn't really matter.

BTW - isn't this thread about Oregon deer farms? Or was Moosie just trying to stir the pot

 

[Moosie]

Or was Moosie just trying to stir the pot

You make it seem like I'm always stirring something, I'm a drafter not a cook

 

[elkfarmer]

BuzzH, sounds to me like you guys all voted to support elk farms. right!!And now you are crying about it. HaHa......Suckers....

I am still waiting to see the name of 1 elk farm that collects welfare. Welfare is not $$ that the state just gives to people, it is $$ that people ask for from the state.

SS- hump next

 

[MarvB]

Hey California FINALLY is doing something right and you gave it away...thanks Curly, I'm sure there will soon be pending legislation to allow game farms in Kalifornistan...after all we can't infringe on anyone's rights now can we... (Note "Sarcasm")

 

[elk_hunter]

Although it's nice that NV doesn't allow captive shooting, I still wish game farms were prohibited everywhere. It's almost unbelievable to see CO as the worst offender of western states! Argh; that map should be completely green...

 

[elkfarmer]

Hey elk hunter, let me ask you this, why do you care if someone shoots a bull in a fence? Does it really affect you? Or is it something you just don't agree with?