One way to stop a corner cross

[Zarno12]

 

[WIdave]

Wonder how many would walk their talk.

Like your "honeyhole" on our public land? If you found access via an indiscriminate corner not totally adjoined, would you share it on hunt talk as an accessible route to our public land?

If you had the opportunity to purchase land that was fantastic... but for one fumbling point... it checkerboards public land that once had a celebrity helo in to hunt due it's challengingaccess... would you open a corner of your land to the public, publicly? The area you would personally hunt now inundated with those quality unknown public land hunters?
Better if you owned premier checkerboard land - would you enroll it w/ block management for open public access?

I've no doubt a couple of you may walk the entire talk... maybe the entire talk, maybe... I'm not soliciting a public declaration you would / would not. This is an internet forum with a large anonymous collection, after all.

Me? A few of these points... F no.
Block Management? Not a chance. I want my land respected.
MY premier honey hole exposed to every Tom, Dick, and Harriet because I allow untold public people access through my land? Watch the bulls turn to rags as big bull after big bull is dragged across the corner of your private land you opened to the open public?

Or... let's rationalize this: Is it the same to keep it hush to select tight friends? Would that be permissible corner crossing?

Maybe a couple of you who've killed your wall hangers... you miiight open the only corner of the checkerboard to the unknown turdbag public land hunters who don't give a rats about your land or for that matter, our public land...

Reality check internally... I'd support the fight to find some measure of public --> public access at private corners though don't think I'd advertise access to all the public through my property - aka enroll in BMA.

Nowadays, I'd likely lease my land or enroll it in the "Masters program".

**Respect and an arrogant sense of entitlement has devastated the public's access to/through private land.

And here is the problem "...would you open a corner of your land to the public.." No one is saying the land owners have to open up access to their land. It is the active harassment of people to keep them off public land.

 

[WIdave]

You're one that my comment relates to as "I've no doubt..." You're one of the few though even still, if yours was one of the properties that checkboard closed off access I'd be curious - if you would advertise for the public to access our public land via your corner - for sake of public access and I believe that is the situation landowners find themselves faced with - of which many, IMO, support and value conservation, etc.

This is where I believe many may not walk the talk. Any want to permit to and make the first step, literally and figuratively without having to change laws? Many statements within push an action and hostility towards landowners themselves... yet if they were in their shoes - I believe the anonymity secures some from honestly viewing from the other perspective. I don't want to quote specific people for sake of... we all know topics, such as this, bring out comments that don't necessarily reflect how they themselves would handle the same situation.

Myself, I wouldn't. I've no interest with stepping forward to permit access through what, in Montana, is considered my property. Why? public hunters lost their sense of respect for private land owners... Same with Block management. Other programs / operations offer better private land security.

And again "...your corner..."

It is as much a public corner as it is a private corner.

In no way should private landowners be required to open up their land.

 

[Sytes]

Depends on the state whether a person can lawfully cross at a corner... whether ethically legit or not...

If your corner happened to be one in a state who's laws prohibit crossing from public to public, at a private to private junction, would you as a landowner, publicly open access through your corner to show your support for ensuring access to our public land?

Hypocrisy, internet annonimity, and maybe... just maybe a few who might walk the talk. etc... a common themed argument many on HT have stated on corner crossing threads has been directed at the landowners.

I'm opposed to blocking access via private/public corner junctions. I've done my own pissin and moaning over this topic though after a great conversation that permitted myself access through a landowner's property, it's pretty clear I'm one of those who hypocritically stated such though sure as shit wouldn't permit access through my corner of property unless I knew the person(s).

And again, would you publicize access through your corner in a State where corner crossing is not lawful?

Again, no need to answer. Not intended to demand each declare... it's food for thought regarding your corner.

Turd bag public entitled hunters have damaged the respect of landowners property to the point landowners say no to corner crossing across the board.

 

[Dsnow9]

I personally don’t know where I sit on corner crossing but like reading the threads. I see it from both sides. If there is no fence I am ok crossing because I feel I can cross the corner without being on the private property. With a fence it is impossible to not be on the private property without a ladder like a little buddy to gap the fence. I would like to think I’m the type of guy that in a state where it isn’t legal I would put a sign at said corner that says “no trespassing, but call me. #” If they call we are good, if not I’d probably have a remote game camera set up and do something about it. I would never advertise it or tell others about it though. If someone figures it out and does the leg work, more power to them.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Depends on the state whether a person can lawfully cross at a corner... whether ethically legit or not...

If your corner happened to be one in a state who's laws prohibit crossing from public to public, at a private to private junction, would you as a landowner, publicly open access through your corner to show your support for ensuring access to our public land?

Hypocrisy, internet annonimity, and maybe... just maybe a few who might walk the talk. etc... a common themed argument many on HT have stated on corner crossing threads has been directed at the landowners.

I'm opposed to blocking access via private/public corner junctions. I've done my own pissin and moaning over this topic though after a great conversation that permitted myself access through a landowner's property, it's pretty clear I'm one of those who hypocritically stated such though sure as shit wouldn't permit access through my corner of property unless I knew the person(s).

And again, would you publicize access through your corner in a State where corner crossing is not lawful?

Again, no need to answer. Not intended to demand each declare... it's food for thought regarding your corner.

Turd bag public entitled hunters have damaged the respect of landowners property to the point landowners say no to corner crossing across the board.

There have been plenty of instances where i might disagree with a law that benefits me but dont actively advocate changing the law. In the same token, I don't advocate for the law i disagree with just because it benefits me. If that makes me a hypocrite so be it.

I still think you're making a false comparison because very few people are claiming they'd encourage a bunch of people to come hunt near them in the name of public access. It's more of an argument on the principles.

 

[WIdave]

Depends on the state whether a person can lawfully cross at a corner... whether ethically legit or not...

If your corner happened to be one in a state who's laws prohibit crossing from public to public, at a private to private junction, would you as a landowner, publicly open access through your corner to show your support for ensuring access to our public land?

Hypocrisy, internet annonimity, and maybe... just maybe a few who might walk the talk. etc... a common themed argument many on HT have stated on corner crossing threads has been directed at the landowners.

I'm opposed to blocking access via private/public corner junctions. I've done my own pissin and moaning over this topic though after a great conversation that permitted myself access through a landowner's property, it's pretty clear I'm one of those who hypocritically stated such though sure as shit wouldn't permit access through my corner of property unless I knew the person(s).

And again, would you publicize access through your corner in a State where corner crossing is not lawful?

Again, no need to answer. Not intended to demand each declare... it's food for thought regarding your corner.

Turd bag public entitled hunters have damaged the respect of landowners property to the point landowners say no to corner crossing across the board.

If there is true trespassing, hell yeah, prosecute to the fullest extent of the law. I have no problem with that, I'm even all for it.

Now your question, "If your corner happened to be one in a state who's laws prohibit crossing from public to public, at a private to private junction, would you as a landowner, publicly open access through your corner to show your support for ensuring access to our public land?"

If I owned land at a private to private and public to public junction, yes I would allow law abiding people to pass at those junctions. Those that trespassed would be prosecuted. Would I stand at the local sporting goods store and tell everyone that walked past that they have access to the public land through the corners of the public and private, "No".

If it is deemed legal in your state, than there should be no attempt by the adjacent property owners to restrict access, period.

FYI - This is a good discussion.

 

[Eric Albus]

"I just want to know where it ends when we begin eroding property rights." Young Gun

Exactly! We are discussing the erosion of the public's property rights to access and recreate on public property ... the erosion caused by private landowners blocking access to public land, mostly for their own benefit at exclusion of the public property owners.

So, is this an advocacy to end private landownership of property?

 

[Sytes]

@Wind Gypsy and @WIdave ,

It's an interesting question to not record an easement via one side of the private land.

A landowner is determining exclusivity or determining quality they've privately enjoyed aside from that pesky helo dropped TV diy hunter...

Thin line between the two or, IMO one and the same in this setting.

To place a sign to cross around said sign in hopes your private exclusive elk opportunities or conservation minded action remains silent so the bulls of past don't become the rags of future holds the same intent... unless a public hunter approached that corner to unlawfully cross then s/he (or group) of public hunters are rewarded.

Then it gets around about the sign... and your exclusivity rationalized as private conservation gets out. Pull the sign or it's... shockingly publicized access.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

So, is this an advocacy to end private landownership of property?

Takes some hefty mental gymnastics to get to that conclusion.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

@Wind Gypsy and @WIdave ,

It's an interesting question to not record an easement via one side of the private land.

A landowner is determining exclusivity or determining quality they've privately enjoyed aside from that pesky helo dropped TV diy hunter...

Thin line between the two or, IMO one and the same in this setting.

To place a sign to cross around said sign in hopes your private exclusive elk opportunities or conservation minded action remains silent so the bulls of past don't become the rags of future holds the same intent... unless a public hunter approached that corner to unlawfully cross then s/he (or group) of public hunters are rewarded.

Then it gets around about the sign... and your exclusivity rationalized as private conservation gets out. Pull the sign or it's... shockingly publicized access.

Perhaps i'm too simple but I don't understand your point here.

 

[Sytes]

Perhaps i'm too simple but I don't understand your point here.

The internet forum conundrum... far different than being around a firepit.

 

[WIdave]

A very interesting read.

Wyoming Corner Crossing Opinion from Wyoming attorney general

 

[Gerald Martin]

So, is this an advocacy to end private landownership of property?

No. It’s advocacy to clarity boundaries and allow me as a private citizen to access all legally accessible public land.

 

[JM77]

Landowners claiming it's illegal to corner cross from public to public have one thing in mind: keeping you off of public land.

 

[Gerald Martin]

In what state or states has it been definitively deemed illegal to corner cross?

Specific statutes or cases where the courts have consistently held corner crossers liable for civil or criminal penalties?

Anyone know that answer?

 

[Eric24]

No. It’s advocacy to clarity boundaries and allow me as a private citizen to access all legally accessible public land.

If this issue was addressed legally, what are the actual costs to landowners? Loss of ability to keep public off public owned land through use of a set of untested legal assumptions. That's it in a nutshell. Possible benefits to private landowners are that the legal system codifies language making their claim to exclusive corner rights law. The public could benefit by finally knowing what the rules of the game are, and maybe even end up being able to hunt more public owned land. Conversely, the public could be disappointed to finally have MT make corner crossing illegal, therefore ending all hope of accessing large areas of public land. As things stand now, many people corner hop (depending where they are and who the landowner is) and roll the dice on whether they are going to have a confrontation with the landowner or a nice little meeting with the local Sheriff. This is not a good scenario for landowner/public relations. It creates animosity and makes people that could very well be friends into bitter rivals.

 

[Sytes]

In what state or states has it been definitively deemed illegal to corner cross?

Specific statutes or cases where the courts have consistently held corner crossers liable for civil or criminal penalties?

Anyone know that answer?

Answer for Montana, yes via MT Supreme Court upheld conviction brought to Supreme Court upon appeal for crossing w/o permission.

State v. Cherry

The Supreme Court affirmed the judgment of the district court affirming a justice court verdict finding Appellant guilty of failure to obtain landowner permission for hunting, holding the district court correctly affirmed Appellant's conviction.

law.justia.com

An interesting article covers the detail of county dropping a case then another case ensued, Jury found him guilty and State Supreme Court upheld jury decision.

"His lawyer appealed to the Montana Supreme Court, saying Cherry wasn’t hunting on private property, just passing through that gap to hunt on public land. The Supreme Court upheld the jury’s decision in February 2020."

Park County Court Cases Testing Boundaries Of Public Access, Private Property Rights

March 1 kicks off the new license year for Montana hunters, many of whom will rely on public land to punch their tags. Some of them say large, out-of...

www.mtpr.org

 

[Fremont15]

The rancher in this case is obviously a sack of crap. I will continue to corner cross and legally access our public lands. I hope all hunters do as well.

 

[Gerald Martin]

In the Cherry case that the Supreme Court upheld, wasn’t he crossing the gap referenced earlier in this thread?
They didn’t buy his argument that since he had done it for a long time he had essentially created an easement for himself.
I could be wrong, I didn’t read the entire article before commenting.