Obama executive orders

[pa mt man]

How can mental health patients be screened if doctors aren't involved?

How is someone deemed to be crazy, before they go on a shooting spree?

Does anyone have a solution to prevent mass shootings, that doesn't require more legislation?

Did Elkgunner move to Pa?

 

[StrutNut]

Also, lets just say you are a law abiding gun owner but because of maybe a wife cheating on you or loss of job you desire to see a shrink. Would you knowing that there is a good chance that could mean a loss of firearm privileges? Who is drawing the line on this one? All because lets face it, it the principle was a trained conceal carry permit holder allowed to carry she would be living with the fact that she had to shoot another human being, maybe even killing him to protect her staff and children. She would be LIVING with this. As would the other staff and children. The media would not be talking about it and the current administration would be needing a different reason to push their anti gun agenda on us. I do like that across the country Sheriffs are stepping forward and saying they are not going to enforce these new gun laws in their counties. I really wish the two schools that m kids are in had armed guards and trained teachers/staff with conceal carry firearms on them. I am sure there are ex military or even current military that would love to help protect our kids.

 

[fowladdict]

Thank you for the clarrification. It's a pet peeve of mine that too many folks consider what we have in the US a democracy.

+1

Funny that most adults forget this, but my grade school kids do.

 

[dustinf]

+1

Funny that most adults forget this, but my grade school kids do.

The United States is a democracy.

We elect reprentatives to make/vote most laws, which would be a republic. But, we can also vote on laws(referendums)all the time, which makes us a democracy.

 

[WV Hunter]

The United States is a democracy.

We elect reprentatives to make/vote most laws, which would be a republic. But, we can also vote on laws(referendums)all the time, which makes us a democracy.

The United States is, indeed, a republic, not a democracy. Accurately defined, a democracy is a form of government in which the people decide policy matters directly--through town hall meetings or by voting on ballot initiatives and referendums. A republic, on the other hand, is a system in which the people choose representatives who, in turn, make policy decisions on their behalf. The Framers of the Constitution were altogether fearful of pure democracy. Everything they read and studied taught them that pure democracies "have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths" (Federalist No. 10).

By popular usage, however, the word "democracy" come to mean a form of government in which the government derives its power from the people and is accountable to them for the use of that power. In this sense the United States might accurately be called a democracy. However, there are examples of "pure democracy" at work in the United States today that would probably trouble the Framers of the Constitution if they were still alive to see them. Many states allow for policy questions to be decided directly by the people by voting on ballot initiatives or referendums. (Initiatives originate with, or are initiated by, the people while referendums originate with, or are referred to the people by, a state's legislative body.) That the Constitution does not provide for national ballot initiatives or referendums is indicative of the Framers' opposition to such mechanisms. They were not confident that the people had the time, wisdom or level-headedness to make complex decisions, such as those that are often presented on ballots on election day.

Writing of the merits of a republican or representative form of government, James Madison observed that one of the most important differences between a democracy and a republic is "the delegation of the government [in a republic] to a small number of citizens elected by the rest." The primary effect of such a scheme, Madison continued, was to:

. . . refine and enlarge the public views by passing them through the medium of a chosen body of citizens whose wisdom may best discern the true interest of their country and whose patriotism and love of justice will be least likely to sacrifice it to temporary or partial considerations. Under such a regulation it may well happen that the public voice, pronounced by the representatives of the people, will be more consonant to the public good than if pronounced by the people themselves, convened for the same purpose (Federalist No. 10).
Later, Madison elaborated on the importance of "refining and enlarging the public views" through a scheme of representation:

There are particular moments in public affairs when the people, stimulated by some irregular passion, or some illicit advantage, or misled by the artful misrepresentations of interested men, may call for measures which they themselves will afterwards be most ready to lament and condemn. In these critical moments, how salutary will be the interference of some temperate and respectable body of citizens, in order to check the misguided career and to suspend the blow meditated by the people against themselves, until reason, justice and truth can regain their authority over the public mind(Federalist No. 63).
In the strictest sense of the word, the system of government established by the Constitution was never intended to be a "democracy." This is evident not only in the wording of the Pledge of Allegiance but in the Constitution itself which declares that "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government" (Article IV, Section 4). Moreover, the scheme of representation and the various mechanisms for selecting representatives established by the Constitution were clearly intended to produce a republic, not a democracy.

 

[TLC]

The United States is a democracy.

We elect reprentatives to make/vote most laws, which would be a republic. But, we can also vote on laws(referendums)all the time, which makes us a democracy.

wrong.

A referendum (also known as a plebiscite or a vote on a ballot question) is a direct vote in which an entire electorate is asked to either accept or reject a particular proposal, usually a piece of legislation which has been passed into law by the local legislative body and was signed by the pertinent executive official(s). This may result in the adoption of a new constitution, a constitutional amendment, a law, the recall of an elected official or simply a specific government policy. It is a form of direct democracy.

so you are voting on something that has already been passed. can not remember when the entire electorate was asked to vote on something that had already been passed on the federal level. anyone remember something? or anything?

 

[TLC]

"Does anyone have a solution to prevent mass shootings, that doesn't require more legislation? "

What

Drug

Date

Where

Additional



School Shooting

Prozac WITHDRAWAL

2008-02-15

Illinois

** 6 Dead: 15 Wounded: Perpetrator Was in Withdrawal from Med & Acting Erratically



School Shooting

Prozac Antidepressant

2005-03-24

Minnesota

**10 Dead: 7 Wounded: Dosage Increased One Week before Rampage



School Shooting

Paxil [Seroxat] Antidepressant

2001-03-10

Pennsylvania

**14 Year Old GIRL Shoots & Wounds Classmate at Catholic School



School Shooting

Zoloft Antidepressant & ADHD Med

2011-07-11

Alabama

**14 Year Old Kills Fellow Middle School Student



School Shooting

Zoloft Antidepressant

1995-10-12

South Carolina

**15 Year Old Shoots Two Teachers, Killing One: Then Kills Himself



School Shooting

Med For Depression

2009-03-13

Germany

**16 Dead Including Shooter: Antidepressant Use: Shooter in Treatment For Depression



School Hostage Situation

Med For Depression

2010-12-15

France

**17 Year Old with Sword Holds 20 Children & Teacher Hostage



School Shooting Plot

Med For Depression WITHDRAWAL

2008-08-28

Texas

**18 Year Old Plots a Columbine School Attack



School Shooting

Anafranil Antidepressant

1988-05-20

Illinois

**29 Year Old WOMAN Kills One Child: Wounds Five: Kills Self



School Shooting

Luvox/Zoloft Antidepressants

1999-04-20

Colorado

**COLUMBINE: 15 Dead: 24 Wounded



School Stabbings

Antidepressants

2001-06-09

Japan

**Eight Dead: 15 Wounded: Assailant Had Taken 10 Times his Normal Dose of Depression Med



School Shooting

Prozac Antidepressant WITHDRAWAL

1998-05-21

Oregon

**Four Dead: Twenty Injured



School Stabbing

Med For Depression

2011-10-25

Washington

**Girl, 15, Stabs Two Girls in School Restroom: 1 Is In Critical Condition



School Shooting

Antidepressant

2006-09-30

Colorado

**Man Assaults Girls: Kills One & Self



School Machete Attack

Med for Depression

2001-09-26

Pennsylvania

**Man Attacks 11 Children & 3 Teachers at Elementary School



School Shooting Related

Luvox

1993-07-23

Florida

**Man Commits Murder During Clinical Trial for Luvox: Same Drug as in COLUMBINE: Never Reported



School Hostage Situation

Cymbalta Antidepressant WITHDRAWAL

2009-11-09

New York

**Man With Gun Inside School Holds Principal Hostage



School Shooting

Antidepressants

1992-09-20

Texas

**Man, Angry Over Daughter's Report Card, Shoots 14 Rounds inside Elementary School



School Shooting

SSRI

2010-02-19

Finland

**On Sept. 23, 2008 a Finnish Student Shot & Killed 9 Students Before Killing Himself



School Shooting Threat

Med for Depression*

2004-10-19

New Jersey

**Over-Medicated Teen Brings Loaded Handguns to School



School Shooting

Antidepressant?

2007-04-18

Virginia

**Possible SSRI Use: 33 Dead at Virginia Tech



School Shooting

Antidepressant?

2002-01-17

Virginia

**Possible SSRI Withdrawal Mania: 3 Dead at Law School



School Incident/Bizarre

Zoloft*

2010-08-22

Australia

**School Counselor Exhibits Bizarre Behavior: Became Manic On Zoloft



School/Assault

Antidepressant

2009-11-04

California

**School Custodian Assaults Student & Principal: Had Manic Reaction From Depression Med



School Shooting

Prozac Antidepressant

1992-01-30

Michigan

**School Teacher Shoots & Kills His Superintendent at School



School Shooting Threats

Celexa Antidepressant

2010-01-25

Virginia

**Senior in High School Theatens to Kill 4 Classmates: Facebook Involved: Bail Denied



School Violence/Murder

Antidepressants*

1998-05-04

New York

**Sheriff's Deputy Shoots his Wife in an Elementary School



School Knifing/Murder

Meds For Depression & ADHD

2010-04-28

Massachusetts

**Sixteen Year Old Kills 15 Year Old in High School Bathroom in Sept. 2009



School Stabbing

Wellbutrin

2006-12-04

Indiana

**Stabbing by 17 Year Old At High School: Charged with Attempted Murder



School Threat

Antidepressants

2007-04-23

Mississippi

**Student Arrested for Making School Threat Over Internet



School Suspension

Lexapro Antidepressant

2007-07-28

Arkansas

**Student Has 11 Incidents with Police During his 16 Months on Lexapro



School Shooting

Antidepressant WITHDRAWAL

2007-11-07

Finland

**Student Kills 8: Wounds 10: Kills Self: High School in Finland



School Shooting

Paxil [Seroxat] Antidepressant

2004-02-09

New York

**Student Shoots Teacher in Leg at School



School Threat

Prozac Antidepressant

2008-01-25

Washington

**Student Takes Loaded Shotgun & 3 Rifles to School Parking Lot: Plans Suicide



School Shooting Plot

Med For Depression

1998-12-01

Wisconsin

**Teen Accused of Plotting to Gun Down Students at School



School/Assault

Zoloft Antidepressant

2006-02-15

Tennessee

**Teen Attacks Teacher at School



School Shooting Threat

Antidepressant

1999-04-16

Idaho

**Teen Fires Gun in School



School Hostage Situation

Paxil & Effexor Antidepressants

2001-04-15

Washington

**Teen Holds Classmates Hostage with a Gun



School Hostage Situation

Antidepressant WITHDRAWAL

2006-11-28

North Carolina

**Teen Holds Teacher & Student Hostage with Gun



School Knife Attack

Med for Depression

2006-12-06

Indiana

**Teen Knife Attacks Fellow Student



School Massacre Plot

Prozac Withdrawal

2011-02-23

Virginia

**Teen Sentenced to 12 Years in Prison For Columbine Style Plot



School Shooting

Celexa & Effexor Antidepressants

2001-04-19

California

**Teen Shoots at Classmates in School



School Shooting

Celexa Antidepressant

2006-08-30

North Carolina

**Teen Shoots at Two Students: Kills his Father: Celexa Found Among his Personal Effects



School Shooting

Meds For Depression & ADHD

2011-03-18

South Carolina

**Teen Shoots School Official: Pipe Bombs Found in Backpack



School Shooting Threat

Antidepressant

2003-05-31

Michigan

**Teen Threatens School Shooting: Charge is Terrorism



School Stand-Off

Zoloft Antidepressant

1998-04-13

Idaho

**Teen [14 Years Old] in School Holds Police At Bay: Fires Shots



School Shooting

Antidepressant WITHDRAWAL

2007-10-12

Ohio

**Teen [14 Years Old] School Shooter Possibly on Antidepressants or In Withdrawal



School Threat

Antidepressants

2008-03-20

Indiana

**Teen [16 Years Old] Brings Gun to School: There Is a Lockdown



School Suicide/Lockdown

Med For Depression

2008-02-20

Idaho

**Teen [16 Years Old] Kills Self at High School: Lockdown by Police



School Threats

Prozac Antidepressant

1999-10-19

Florida

**Teen [16 Years Old] Threatens Classmates With Knife & Fake Explosives



School Stabbing

Med For Depression

2008-02-29

Texas

**Teen [17 Year Old GIRL] Stabs Friend & Principal at High School



School Hostage Situation

Prozac/ Paxil Antidepressants

2001-01-18

California

**Teen [17 Years Old] Takes Girl Hostage at School: He is Killed by Police



School Knife Attack

Treatment For Depression & Strattera

2009-03-10

Belgium

**Three Dead in School Day Care: Two Children & a Caregiver: Happened Jan 23, 2009



School Shooting Plot

Antidepressants

2009-09-22

England

**Two English School Boys Plot to Blow Up High School



School Arson Incidents

Paxil

2002-04-12

Michigan

**Unusual Personality Change on Paxil Caused 15 Year Old to Set Fires inside High School



School Bomb Threat

Med For Depression

2009-06-29

Australia

**Vexed Father Makes Bomb Threat Against Elementary School



School Violence

Antidepressant

2005-11-19

Arizona

**Violent 8 Year Old GIRL Handcuffed by Police at School



School Violence

Celexa Antidepressant

2002-01-23

Florida

**Violent 8 Year-Old Boy Arrested At School



School Threat/Lockdown

Lexapro*

2008-04-18

California

**Violent High School Student Shot to Death on Campus by Police



School / Child Endangerment

Antidepressants

2008-02-27

Canada

**Wacky School Bus Driver Goes Berserk: Also Involved Painkillers



School Violence

Paxil

2004-10-23

Washington DC

**Young Boy, 10 Year Old, Has Violent Incidents at School



School Threat

Wellbutrin Antidepressant

2007-04-24

Tennessee

**Young Boy, 12, Threatens to Shoot Others at School



School Hostage Situation

Med for Depression

2006-03-09

France

**Young Ex-Teacher Holds 21 Students Hostage



School Shooting/Suicide

Celexa

2002-10-07

Texas

**Young Girl [13 Years Old] Kills Self at School With a Gun



School Hostage Situation

Paxil

2001-10-12

North Carolina

**Young Man Holds Three People Hostage in Duke University President's Office



School Murder Attempt

Med For Depression

1995-03-04

California

**Young Woman Deliberately Hits 3 Kids with Her Car at Elementary School: Laughed During Attack

thinking prescribing a lot less of these may help. sorry for the way it came out.

 

[dustinf]

wrong.

A referendum (also known as a plebiscite or a vote on a ballot question) is a direct vote in which an entire electorate is asked to either accept or reject a particular proposal, usually a piece of legislation which has been passed into law by the local legislative body and was signed by the pertinent executive official(s). This may result in the adoption of a new constitution, a constitutional amendment, a law, the recall of an elected official or simply a specific government policy. It is a form of direct democracy.

so you are voting on something that has already been passed. can not remember when the entire electorate was asked to vote on something that had already been passed on the federal level. anyone remember something? or anything?

You guys are relentless. Ok, it's technically a ballot initiative.

I'll keep my mouth shut from now on.

 

[bigeasygator]

He is asking me to let them put a chip in our cars that tells them how fast we drive, acceleration and braking details and we could get a discount. Told him to ram that one in a dark place.

I did it and my insurance went down 20%. To each his own.

 

[Mudranger1]

I did it and my insurance went down 20%. To each his own.

Lol exactly

 

[sweetnectar]

Does anyone have a solution to prevent mass shootings, that doesn't require more legislation?

Yes, Get rid of the legislation banning teachers, principles, janitors, or ccw holders from being able to carry a weapon in schools if they choose. Would this require more legislation to do it? I think the 2nd amendment already covers it and laws exist on the books that are contrary to the 2nd.

 

[exponentialpi]

They won't even enforce the laws on the books now. Karl Denninger also has some great pieces, including this quote from the last week:

No restriction on mentally-ill people getting firearms nor any restriction on magazine capacity would have done a thing, as the shooter at Sandy Hook took the firearms from a lawful owner after murdering said lawful owner.

He also has an interesting perspective on society here, for which I can relate. In my relatively short hunting career, I have seen things go wrong.

 

[JohnCushman]

I've got friends on both sides of this argument, and many other arguments that seem to be in fashion on this sight lately. It truly breaks my heart to see a bunch of adult men stooping to name calling and arguing like a bunch of kids. We all have our views, and have the right to have those views. This is America, afterall...good , bad, or ugly. Can't we get back to discussing hunting and stuff like that?

 

[spook12]

How dare you John. You limp wristed, commie,lefty,Tree huger

Ooh WAIT.............. I agree completely.

 

[Toadslayer]

http://freebeacon.com/watch-jon-tester-dodge-gun-control-questions-for-3-minutes/