NRA On The Hot Seat - Exposed or Attacked?

[shrapnel]

All the NRA bashing and lack of credibility of the NRA (or the appearance of it) has alienated many supporters. Division is as bad as all the claims of LaPierre ineptness.

Many claim life membership and jump off the cliff like a bunch of lemmings. I am an endowment life member and I am not abandoning the ship. I may be naive, but I am not giving up and have seen worse disasters that survived.

All the rhetoric and discontent has not made the protection of the 2nd Amendment one bit better. The mention of GOA and all the other supposed advocates of the 2nd Amendment, don’t address the current problems with gun ownership.

There are some very simple, but overlooked symptoms of gun ownership in America. The worst is complacency. If there are 75 million gun owners in America, where is their concern for that right? 7 million members of the NRA and it goes down from there.

If you were to add up all the active gun advocates, you still would have a super minority. Among the 75 million gun owners, you don’t have a majority that believe it is a right, but own a gun for whatever personal reason they subscribe to.

If all or any of the dissatisfied gun owners were united, the NRA alternatives would be much larger. The fact is, they aren’t and there isn’t any real measurable effect of the alternatives.

The NRA has another side that isn’t Wayne LaPierre and that is the legislative aspect and the recognition by the Congress and other organizations that understand the power of a legislative body, and they know nothing of who Wayne LaPierre is or isn’t. I still stand behind the NRA for that reason and with all the discontent among the ranks, I don’t see a single bright spot that has any clout to move forward in regards to our protection of the 2nd Amendment.

 

[Pmacc60]

All the NRA bashing and lack of credibility of the NRA (or the appearance of it) has alienated many supporters. Division is as bad as all the claims of LaPierre ineptness.

Many claim life membership and jump off the cliff like a bunch of lemmings. I am an endowment life member and I am not abandoning the ship. I may be naive, but I am not giving up and have seen worse disasters that survived.

All the rhetoric and discontent has not made the protection of the 2nd Amendment one bit better. The mention of GOA and all the other supposed advocates of the 2nd Amendment, don’t address the current problems with gun ownership.

There are some very simple, but overlooked symptoms of gun ownership in America. The worst is complacency. If there are 75 million gun owners in America, where is their concern for that right? 7 million members of the NRA and it goes down from there.

If you were to add up all the active gun advocates, you still would have a super minority. Among the 75 million gun owners, you don’t have a majority that believe it is a right, but own a gun for whatever personal reason they subscribe to.

If all or any of the dissatisfied gun owners were united, the NRA alternatives would be much larger. The fact is, they aren’t and there isn’t any real measurable effect of the alternatives.

The NRA has another side that isn’t Wayne LaPierre and that is the legislative aspect and the recognition by the Congress and other organizations that understand the power of a legislative body, and they know nothing of who Wayne LaPierre is or isn’t. I still stand behind the NRA for that reason and with all the discontent among the ranks, I don’t see a single bright spot that has any clout to move forward in regards to our protection of the 2nd Amendment.

Awesome points you make , it all gun owners pulled together we would stop all
this move on the 2nd amendment. Problem is the NRA killed us with not living up to the membership expectations. They left the barn door open and the left is feasting on them. I can see on all forums that we do not stand together and there is a huge division in our ranks . Some believe that legal gun ownership is to be protected at all cost , that includes black guns and hand guns , high capacity magazines and all that is considered firearms . However there are many that care about what they have and their area , they follow what the news says and don’t care to explore the debate. When I lose our right to own legally ,firearms then next is the rest of the gun owners. I hope the NRA can survive but we need someone in Washington and Quick because the rain is coming!

 

[Western Traveler1]

I think the drop off of membership is a revolt against LaPierre and the mismanagement at the top. They tarnished the reputation of the NRA with gun owners that do care.
Step one to gain credibility with members/former members is jettison him and go from there.
In business it is much cheaper to hang onto returning customers than to draw new ones in. Start there.
I was a member since the 60’s but I can flush money down my own toilet.

 

[Big Fin]

If folks want to continue to support them, I am fine with that. Your money, your time, do with it what you want. Criticize others who demand accountability, if you want, but for most, this is not a spontaneous decision; the NRA has been given the benefit of the doubt many times by most critics on this thread

Progress will require more than just removal of WLP. The Board is as incestuous as Wayne, if not worse. There are Board members who control a lot of the key seats on the Board Executive Committee, Board Governance Committee, Board Nominating Committee. Until all those people are gone, there will be no unity. And with them, get rid of most the law firms and most the consulting firms. Outside advisors see the NRA as a fountain of money and these advisors are more interested in keeping their buckets filled with NRA money than they are giving sound objective advice.

Calls to keep backing the NRA fall silent on me. For years, they have been lectured by some of the key industry donors I know personally. This handful of grifters at the top have thought they were above accountability. I know folks who work/worked at HQ at key positions. When they tell me it is actually worse than what we are reading in the papers, I pay attention.

I'll keep advocating for 2A. I'm not inclined to let my rights be constrained because the poorly placed trust in a group of self-servers who think they are above accountability. And I'm surely not going to be an enabler by sending that same group of clowns more money and trust them with this very important cause; trust they have shown time and again to be misplaced.

 

[Western Traveler1]

If folks want to continue to support them, I am fine with that. Your money, your time, do with it what you want. Criticize others who demand accountability, if you want, but for most, this is not a spontaneous decision; the NRA has been given the benefit of the doubt many times by most critics on this thread

Progress will require more than just removal of WLP. The Board is as incestuous as Wayne, if not worse. There are Board members who control a lot of the key seats on the Board Executive Committee, Board Governance Committee, Board Nominating Committee. Until all those people are gone, there will be no unity. And with them, get rid of most the law firms and most the consulting firms. Outside advisors see the NRA as a fountain of money and these advisors are more interested in keeping their buckets filled with NRA money than they are giving sound objective advice.

Calls to keep backing the NRA fall silent on me. For years, they have been lectured by some of the key industry donors I know personally. This handful of grifters at the top have thought they were above accountability. I know folks who work/worked at HQ at key positions. When they tell me it is actually worse than what we are reading in the papers, I pay attention.

I'll keep advocating for 2A. I'm not inclined to let my rights be constrained because the poorly placed trust in a group of self-servers who think they are above accountability. And I'm surely not going to be an enabler by sending that same group of clowns more money and trust them with this very important cause; trust they have shown time and again to be misplaced.

Randy, I had heard these points from you in the past and agree. I recognize I oversimplified the problem and realize it may be beyond redemption. I sometimes feel like they took their lead from....

 

[JLS]

If refusing to support a corrupt organization makes me a lemming, so be it. There’s a lot of irony in that statement, for those who can sort it out.

 

[BWALKER77]

Back it up with some data. Arguing with you has the same predictable results as certain other actions, of which I'll leave up to one's own imagination.

So we are actually winning the war on drugs and poverty? Got it!

 

[Irrelevant]

Just the truth.

Truth?

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/812102.pdf

 

[Big Fin]

Hey folks, let's get back on track to the original post. If you want to debate poverty, crime, drugs, or something else, take it to a different place.

 

[Ben Lamb]

The NRA has to restructure but that is the least of their problem . They took a serious PR hit with all the 2019 scandal . With the thug reputation they had and the shady things going on I don’t think they can recover. In truth they let as member down when we need them them most. Using a few good men court scene as a metaphor to the NRA ” you want me on that wall ,you need me on that wall” we may not agree with the NRA but we needed them standing guard and for a while they did a good job ,

I see your point but so much has been given to the have nots only to see it fail or create a sense of entitlement , I an a real life liberal , my wife is the Director of Public housing for a county in southeastern Pa. We both give our time and money to make life better for people who are in need. You quickly find out your good intentions do very little to help . Many people my wife houses are second and third generation subsidy people.They know the system better than The housing authority does. My wife come home upset tonight that a woman she was trying to help made a false and easily disputed complaint all because she made twice the money this past year then she did in 19 and her rent went up. A whole year of making more and paying the same set rent because it based on yearly recertification didn’t matter to her but she sure got in the office when she lost child support and got a rent reduction. These people are products of the system and giving more to them is not going to help. Job training and education can help but only a few, why work for twenty dollars an hour when I can make hundreds a day selling drugs and pay $50 a month rent. Many need help , vets ,the elderly Handicapped mentally and physically . For every person who is of need there are any more who beat the system. There not bad people but it’s all they know. I try to give at least 15000 in pro Bono work every year and run food and even furniture to some of those who have nothing but you would be surprised by those who don’t want the stuff . I was given a bedroom suit from a VP of DuPont company. Very nice set, it’s sitting in the community room with no takers because?? The residents are to lazy to move it in their apartment. One manager did a food delivery when COVID 19 hit. She stopped because the residents would not take or threw it away. It ended up at my house and I gave it to my adult children , all successful , all educated but like my son said if they had to buy it they would appreciate it! Not that you said this but you can’t throw money at this problem we need to reinvent the system. It’s not a race thing it’s social economic thing and the cycle needs to be broken

Apologies for the wait.

I do not discount what you & your wife see & know. I've heard from a lot of social workers, etc, that see & feel the same. It has to be damned tough to deal with the real effects of our social system & not come away jaded & angry. I sincerely appreciate what your wife does, and I also appreciate & thank you for your volunteer efforts. No doubt people who become trapped in that life often times see less incentive to leave welfare than strike out on their own & achieve security. A welfare class is no good to anyone, including those in need. But we also have a system that says the labor you perform isn't worth a living wage, making this decision even tougher to reconcile.

I think your last sentence is the universal truth for Americans. If we can't see that our society is broken, and we produce more and more poor outcomes, then we don't learn anything from our mistakes. That's why we can't just look at the issue of gun violence as a simple solution - it will take a cultural change, and that has to start with an investment in education & ensuring that there is an actual path out of poverty. There's some really interesting work being done on this in communities of color, and I think a lot of it can be modified to work in rural, poor white America too.

Gun control advocates pull on heartstrings hard. When I did my first lobbyist training, the instructor flatly said that kids trump everything, and dead kids trump live kids. He's not wrong.

The NRA's response to a massive uptick in school shootings wasn't to be empathetic and help, it was to ramp up dangerous marketing schemes & rhetoric that created an atmosphere of heightened conflict and anger among gun owners. They militarized against kids rather than be honest brokers on the issue. It was completely opposite of what they should have done.

At the end of the day, I do truly believe we all want the same thing - life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness. There will always be people who want to take our guns, and there will always be people who want to meet that threat with anger & resentment, rather than approach the issue as a chance to educate & help find a better path forward for all Americans.

 

[shrapnel]

Trying to stay objective, I just see a tremendous void for gun rights against all the litigation and negativity that exists in America. As much as the NRA upsets previous and past members, I realize there is nothing and no real organization that is standing up for gun owner’s rights.

Again, this is only an observation that doesn’t say much for all the gun owners (75,000,000) that aren’t involved with some type of protection. We need more unity than division.

 

[beginnerhunter]

Trying to stay objective, I just see a tremendous void for gun rights against all the litigation and negativity that exists in America. As much as the NRA upsets previous and past members, I realize there is nothing and no real organization that is standing up for gun owner’s rights.

Again, this is only an observation that doesn’t say much for all the gun owners (75,000,000) that aren’t involved with some type of protection. We need more unity than division.

Until something better comes along, it's up to individuals to pick up the phone and call elected officials. That really does make a difference, especially in hunting states like Colorado, NM, AZ, Maine, etc. where you have Democrats that aren't necessarily as anti 2A as others. A few dozen phone calls can leave an impression.

 

[BWALKER77]

Truth?
View attachment 170721

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/812102.pdf

I think you need to fo back and re read what I wrote. I mentioned that drunk driving has decreased based on social tolerance rather than any law passed. That is true. If one goes to areas of the country that tolerate it socially it's still very prevalent. And many of those areas have pretty stiff penalties.

 

[SAJ-99]

For all those looking for alternative, you could always start your own. WLP proved it was a very lucrative job. You just need to collect $100m every year in donations. You can start with gun makers to get immediate legitimacy and have Congresspeople answer your phone call. At the end of the day, all the NRA did was remove the cover and expose you can buy politicians.

 

[Big Fin]

I think you need to fo back and re read what I wrote. I mentioned that drunk driving has decreased based on social tolerance rather than any law passed. That is true. If one goes to areas of the country that tolerate it socially it's still very prevalent. And many of those areas have pretty stiff penalties.

Read post #529.

 

[marksjeep]

NY AG lawsuit shall go on.

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/21/9593...t-or-transfer-lawsuit-that-could-shut-it-down

 

[marksjeep]

I've avoided this thread because it pisses me off to no end to see what WLP and crew have done to the organization. Even taking the "not one more inch" rhetoric out of the discussion, the executive team has driven the organization into the ground. Need to go find the Friday tunes thread and chillax with a cup of joe.

 

[Europe]

As some here know January 2021, has been an interesting and challenging month for me and therefore I am late in responding to this thread.

I read the replies as they were made in 2019 and 2020 and have not gone back to refresh my memory, but after reading the replies made this month------

We ( myself being one of them ) may no longer have faith in the leadership of the NRA, but IMHO, we can not throw the baby out with the bathwater. We can not give up!

I am way to old to do anything, but with approx---- 8 million new gun owners and approx. 1 million new hunters being added to the roles in 2020 ( per permits and back ground checks ) we must not only NOT give up but it seems like a good time to get even more involved.

If all these new gun owners and hunters have good experiences they will remain among us and hopefully bring others with them, in this generation and the next one as well.

We also need voices in Wash D.C. and at the State capitols speaking for us.

Folks like National Deer, Pheasants Forever, Rocky MTN Elk, Ducks Unlimited, and others.

We possibly would even be better off with several speaking for us instead of one. I know the NRA is not the only one currently speaking for us now, but my thought was maybe this is a blessing in disguise, as we get even more, smaller, streamlined organizations speaking for us.

In Arizona, the Arizona Predator Assoc, has been around for 125 years, but their members and officers in recent years have been viciously attacked, and yet the association continues to grow. And to the surprise of some, some of the new members are females.

All of you who are still young enough, stay involved in one way or another, please. It dont have to be the NRA, but stay involved in the organizations both state and federal that you believe in

not just to protect 2A ( but that too ), but a way of life ( hunting ) for your children, grandchildren ----

 

[Randi]

April, that is exactly what our family has done. We can no longer support the NRA, but we continue to support the cause. Gun Owners of America, Texas Rifle Assoc., Women against Gun control , Second Amendment Sisters, plus we make phone calls directly to those who were elected to represent us.

This might be a good time and place to ask members: What associations, if any, do you feel are working, for us ?

 

[44hunter45]

Hunting wife , I’m not replying to be antagonistic so that being said I must tell you you are wrong. Here in the East we are not sitting on the side lines we have peaceful demonstrations , active conversation and contacting our state reps and it goes on daily. Virginia gun owns put on a demonstration to protest new gun legislation , thousands of gun owners with their guns made a show of force and it was peaceful and no violence. The Governor said they were going for with the legislations the protest did not matter ! MD has many groups taking on this fight I am a member of Maryland shooters I get sent emails weekly letting me know what’s going on. Even though the local law-enforcement came out and support of not using the new LQL,( long gun qualification lic ) sheriffs said they would not enforce the new law and it did nothing. January 4 they introduced a bill again to try to push it through . Gary Devine of New Jersey has fought bad gun laws and Black bear hunting laws with facts and figures along with his fellow resident hunters and shooters all to no avail !

Your fellow hunters and gun owners are out there in force but whether you see it or not we are against a stack deck. 2A is constantly being misinterpreted and as a high school junior with a library card I found meaning our forefathers of the 2 amendment . Most importantly liberals on the East and west coast are setting to agenda and controlling the dialogue through misinformation , social media and the press. How many times do I have to see acts of liberal violence , rioting , anarchy , burning and people who are will to commit crimes on national news. I don’t want to loose my right to hunt or own firearms so I won’t engage like many of us in that extremism ! That’s why we will lose this fight , some liberals will go to extremes to stop your rights while the rest of us will go to work and support our families . The NRA understood that back the 70’s and developed bully tactics in Washington , that’s one of the few liberal truths. Now they have adopted the same tactics openly.

Hunting Wife , your comments remind me of what it must have been like back in the 1800’s when northern Americans said slavery is wrong and all we need to do is get southerners in meaningful conversation and we can change their culture. Why not slavery was wrong on every level , how did that work out ?

The NRA is broken and it’s time may be over , it should be because without credibility it’s useless. That being said we are on peril as hunters and gun owners and we need advocates in Washington. The press , social media and the newly elected administration are against us. This is hard fact , so my long winded post comes down to , what are your ideas on going forward ? I respectfully ask that you add to the conversation your thoughts. I’m not your enemy or anyone else I am your fellow American , I will fight for your rights as well as my own. We all need each other ! My point has to be explain in detail because you all do not know me ! I hate politics I just want to talk rifles , calibers and hunting and fishing but unless I get my head out of the sand I may not get to do that in the near future . Big tech is already working to shut down site like this ! So I ask for meaningful ideas , what are you suggestions , I am here to listen! Who knows you may be the inspiration to get a new advocate group started !

Equating @Hunting Wife to being a slave owner is not going to further this conversation. You need to apologize. Apparently East Coasters really do fight dirty. Was that comment supposed to be factual, constructive conversation? First it was "Obama passed a Federal Excise Tax on ammo", now anyone who disagrees with you is Uncle Tom. I can see why you think there is no such thing as honest debate. You are going to need to bring something more objective to this discussion.

I amuses me when someone says "thousands" of people showed up armed someplace to demonstrate and it was peaceful. This is brandishing and it is a form of intimidation. Intimidation is not peaceful. Thinking somehow that it gained good press for gun owners is laughable. Can anyone objectively think that an event like this would do anything other than solidify gun control advocates?

I remember when I got my first CCW in California in the 1980's. The required class was taught by an off duty CHP. He taught if you were going to show it, you better shoot it; and you better not unless it's life or death. Even so much as pulling your coat back to show the pistol butt was brandishing. This is a misdemeanor with up to a year in jail (3 years if at any place where children under the age of 18 congregate. )