NRA On The Hot Seat - Exposed or Attacked?

[Big Fin]

Regardless of whether or not one is a member of the NRA, I suspect most everyone on this site is an ardent supporter of the 2nd Amendment. One can be an avid 2A person on their own, without being a member of any organization. This could be a topic that negatively affects all of us as 2A supporters and gun owners, if this situation proves to be true.

And if these facts hold to be true, we as 2A supporters and gun owners have a tragedy on our hands. A tragedy in that we had a reasonable expectation that the very important cause of 2A and gun ownership would not be hijacked and manipulated for the private inurement of a few. If these facts turn out to be true, expect the national media to leverage such story for the sake of selling content and advertising, all at the expense of the 2nd Amendment and gun ownership in America, not just the 2A and gun ownership of NRA members.

Much like hunting, public lands, conservation, etc., the cause of 2A protection is far more important than any single person or any group. Folks taking advantage of the trust placed in them to represent us, and supposedly advocate for our causes, need to be held to a high standard of principle and transparency. That is a reasonable expectation. If that expectation is not met, it is reasonable to question what is going on. I am glad to see the scrutiny provided, as even if it turns out to not be as reported, the process of self-examination and inspection from the outside is usually beneficial.

And if these reports are proven to be true, it is best to know now, rather than later......and make necessary course adjustments.

 

[Elkmagnet]

The issue isn't with the programs that the NRA sponsors. Law enforcement and civilian training, gun safety and shooting sports endorsed by the NRA are great and the NRA, generally, does a good job with them. The issue is with the ILA branch and their PR/consulting firm. That, and the corruption in the leadership. Do-nothings like Wayne LaPierre and that cat herder from Florida Marion Hammer who are milking the organization for millions have given the organization bad stench.

100%

 

[Sytes]

If you could quote for me where randy said "the NRA is one of the premier suppliers of outdoor conservation funding."
I just cant find it

See Beginnerhunter's response.

 

[roknHS]

I quit them a long time ago because their mission seemed to have evolved into being all about money rather than all about their mission. Those 3 piece suits and Italian loafers are pretty spendy.........surprised nobody mentioned the Mercedes and BMW's and all the fancy buildings and offices.
When dealing with and having access to large quantities of other people's money (kinda like politicians), regular folks can easily get off the rails and succumb to a proven law very much like gravity........"money is the root of all evil". Doesn't seem humans can withstand the temptation. Kinda biblical isn't it?
Like elkduds #2 post "Blind loyalty never benefits the blind". Sage advice and counsel.

I hope the folks at RMEF, especially the top brass and the board members will read and re-read that New Yorker article. Similarities abound. Lots of money there, fancy buildings and offices, fancy clothes and expensive shoes, fancy cars and trucks, big salaries, local, state and federal government connections, lobbyists and lots of marketing to keep the money flowing. Like the NRA, they started out small and humble with a worthy mission; built their organization on the backs of regular, working folks and did a lot of good on their way. Not sayin they have or are headed down the same path but, Stevey Wonder could see the pitfalls if "Blind loyalty" is the norm.

Not against NRA or RMEF, just note the similarities. They have done some good stuff. I don't belong to either because I think their admin costs are obscene.

 

[Big Fin]

I hope the folks at RMEF, especially the top brass and the board members will read and re-read that New Yorker article. Similarities abound. Lots of money there, fancy buildings and offices, fancy clothes and expensive shoes, fancy cars and trucks, big salaries, local, state and federal government connections, lobbyists and lots of marketing to keep the money flowing. Like the NRA, they started out small and humble with a worthy mission; built their organization on the backs of regular, working folks and did a lot of good on their way. Not sayin they have or are headed down the same path but, Stevey Wonder could see the pitfalls if "Blind loyalty" is the norm.

Not against NRA or RMEF, just note the similarities. They have done some good stuff. I don't belong to either because I think their admin costs are obscene.

As someone who has spent seven years on the Finance Committee of RMEF and six years as a member of the Board of Directors, and who has recently been termed out due to term limits on the RMEF Board, your comments, rather implied statements of fiscal irresponsibility, of RMEF strike my interest.

At the risk of derailing this thread, I provide some perspective of someone who was what you mention, a Board Member. If you want to start a different thread and not derail this one, as you have started by making the implications and parallels you have, please start that thread.

I can assure you there are no similarities between RMEF's financial situation and what has been reported about the NRA. Additionally, as someone who served three of those years on the RMEF Governance Committee and two years on the Executive Committee, I can assure you that the controls over private inurement, personal use, conflict of interest, and transparency are high. RMEF hires consultants to come in and review such controls and protocols, and I suspect that will continue. Those governance protocols, financial reporting standards, and transparency directives are part of the reason that RMEF is always highly rated by Charity Navigator.

RMEF does not have an outside consulting firm running a lot of the operation, such as what Ackerman-McQueen does for the NRA. Outside firms are rotated on a periodic basis to comply with the governance protocols. Rotations happen among the outside investment firms managing the endowment funds. The outside auditing firms are reviewed periodically with the audit partner in charge being rotated if the the audit firm is retained. Outside insurance providers are reviewed periodically and rotated as need be. The volume of governance protocols is too lengthy to list here. All of which keep RMEF from getting into the mess the NRA has with Ackerman-McQueen.

You've made some pretty strong statements about RMEF, implying lavish spending. 85-90% of RMEF spending is directed toward mission work. They are getting things done. Every RMEF employee could make far more in the private sector than they are making at RMEF. I suspect they could make more at other non-profits than many of them make at RMEF.

Comments like yours come my way, even now that I'm off the Board. I, like all Board Members, take those comments seriously. I return every phone call or email that implies such and I ask for evidence to support the claims made. None is ever provided. It usually ends with something like, "Well, I heard from (insert name here) who is (insert local expert here) and they said (insert some rumor here) and they wouldn't say that if they didn't have good inside information."

Or I will get the comment, "Why do they need that big fancy building?" I explain that the land was donated with the specific restriction that it be used for a new HQ and get RMEF out the business of paying rent. And, a special fund raising effort was made to fund a large part of the construction, such that RMEF no longer pays rent and has even more money to employ toward mission. The response is usually something like, "Hmm. I didn't know that. I gotta run, talk to you some other time."

If can you provide example of what the "obscene admin costs" are for RMEF that information would be of interest to me.

 

[hossblur]

I dropped, same reason as everyone else. After that dairy queen eating accountantant in Montana sucked me into public land advocacy, I really got irritated that the NRA was actively working against hunters/shooters in supporting the likes of Bishop and Lee.

I don't fear some catastrophe. I watched as out of nowhere BHA rose up to fill a void. Perhaps without the NRA sucking up all the oxygen and cash, more responsible groups will get sunlight, and be able to attract NRA members and apostates like myself.

 

[roknHS]

As someone who has spent seven years on the Finance Committee of RMEF and six years as a member of the Board of Directors, and who has recently been termed out due to term limits on the RMEF Board, your comments, rather implied statements of fiscal irresponsibility, of RMEF strike my interest.

At the risk of derailing this thread, I provide some perspective of someone who was what you mention, a Board Member. If you want to start a different thread and not derail this one, as you have started by making the implications and parallels you have, please start that thread.

I can assure you there are no similarities between RMEF's financial situation and what has been reported about the NRA. Additionally, as someone who served three of those years on the RMEF Governance Committee and two years on the Executive Committee, I can assure you that the controls over private inurement, personal use, conflict of interest, and transparency are high. RMEF hires consultants to come in and review such controls and protocols, and I suspect that will continue. Those governance protocols, financial reporting standards, and transparency directives are part of the reason that RMEF is always highly rated by Charity Navigator.

RMEF does not have an outside consulting firm running a lot of the operation, such as what Ackerman-McQueen does for the NRA. Outside firms are rotated on a periodic basis to comply with the governance protocols. Rotations happen among the outside investment firms managing the endowment funds. The outside auditing firms are reviewed periodically with the audit partner in charge being rotated if the the audit firm is retained. Outside insurance providers are reviewed periodically and rotated as need be. The volume of governance protocols is too lengthy to list here. All of which keep RMEF from getting into the mess the NRA has with Ackerman-McQueen.

You've made some pretty strong statements about RMEF, implying lavish spending. 85-90% of RMEF spending is directed toward mission work. They are getting things done. Every RMEF employee could make far more in the private sector than they are making at RMEF. I suspect they could make more at other non-profits than many of them make at RMEF.

Comments like yours come my way, even now that I'm off the Board. I, like all Board Members, take those comments seriously. I return every phone call or email that implies such and I ask for evidence to support the claims made. None is ever provided. It usually ends with something like, "Well, I heard from (insert name here) who is (insert local expert here) and they said (insert some rumor here) and they wouldn't say that if they didn't have good inside information."

Or I will get the comment, "Why do they need that big fancy building?" I explain that the land was donated with the specific restriction that it be used for a new HQ and get RMEF out the business of paying rent. And, a special fund raising effort was made to fund a large part of the construction, such that RMEF no longer pays rent and has even more money to employ toward mission. The response is usually something like, "Hmm. I didn't know that. I gotta run, talk to you some other time."

If can you provide example of what the "obscene admin costs" are for RMEF that information would be of interest to me.

You know Randy, I didn't make any really "strong statements" about the RMEF at the risk of derailing this thread. Like I said, they have done some good along the way. Glad to hear you and others are keeping them on track and on message. No "Blind Loyalty"
Would be a real crime if they fall victim to the temptation the NRA has. I don't pretend to believe I could convince you that the RMEF could have been more fiscally conservative with the members money. Not the purpose of this thread and not my intention.

 

[Straight Arrow]

"I hope the folks at RMEF, especially the top brass and the board members will read and re-read that New Yorker article. Similarities abound. Lots of money there, fancy buildings and offices, fancy clothes and expensive shoes, fancy cars and trucks, big salaries, local, state and federal government connections, lobbyists and lots of marketing to keep the money flowing. Like the NRA, they started out small and humble with a worthy mission; built their organization on the backs of regular, working folks and did a lot of good on their way. Not sayin they have or are headed down the same path but, Stevey Wonder could see the pitfalls if "Blind loyalty" is the norm."

roknHS, the above is a strong statement / allegation which warrants more than a back-peddle "if they fall victim to the temptation" phrase. As an RMEF member almost since the organization's inception and someone who volunteered actively for over fifteen years, as well as watching the personnel salaries and administrative conservatism in holding down costs, I take exception to your statement. If you do have information to support your statement, then start a thread so we may all be informed and respond ... otherwise how about a brief apology to RMEF and let's drop it.

 

[rmauch20]

The NRA are just lobbyists. I don’t believe the top half of the organization could give two rats asses about Second Amendment rights, the only thing they worry about is money, fundraising, and influence.
And, yes I am a member. Their constant fundraising and fear mongering wear thin very quick.

 

[Gr8bawana]

I dropped, same reason as everyone else. After that dairy queen eating accountantant in Montana sucked me into public land advocacy, I really got irritated that the NRA was actively working against hunters/shooters in supporting the likes of Bishop and Lee.

The NRA will not take a stand on public lands because they support and are supported by the very same politicians that are pushing their PLT agenda.
I quit the NRA years ago when they became an extremist lobbying organization.
These pics show what has happened to the NRA.

 

[Trial153]

I find it interesting that the NRAs response to this, or rather spin is to blame the over site of the state. They are pushing it super hard on social media and in their magazines.

 

[Irrelevant]

I couldn't care less about the NRA or what happens to them. They've done more to polarize the 2nd amendment issue than anyone else, with the pro side being the smaller pole.

 

[beginnerhunter]

I find it interesting that the NRAs response to this, or rather spin is to blame the over site of the state. They are pushing it super hard on social media and in their magazines.

So they're taking the circle-the-wagons approach? Might be effective...to a point. But it sounds like the state of NY could pound then on this and there's nothing all the donors and members in other states can do really.

 

[Trial153]

So they're taking the circle-the-wagons approach? Might be effective...to a point. But it sounds like the state of NY could pound then on this and there's nothing all the donors and members in other states can do really.

Yes they already made it into the us vs them narrative that been profitable for them. If we are looking for self introspection...forget it. At least publicly that isnt happening.
They know their audience too well.

 

[beginnerhunter]

Yes they already made it into the us vs them narrative that been profitable for them. If we are looking for self introspection...forget it. At least publicly that isnt happening.
They know their audience too well.

Let's pray it's happening internally.

 

[antelopedundee]

How do you get pension payments from a fund that's $60 million in the hole?

Ol Wayne musta got his $4 mil while the gettin was good.

Somebody ought to be clawin some of that mis-spending back

 

[come2elmo]

I stopped giving them money when they decided to stay out of the public land transfer issue. I know some don’t think the issues aren linked, but they are in my mind. No public land = less hunters in the west= less gun owners.
[/QUOTE]

This type comment comes up from time to time on various forums about this group or that. The way I see it is I wouldn’t pass on hiring the best dui lawyer around to get my sorry ass out of jail because he won’t be my divorce lawyer now that my wife is tired of my crap. ultimately I hire the best person for the job regardless of whether I agree with them completely or not Largely because I need them to win. For me. Selfish sure. But the other side is to.

 

[Big Fin]

This is a story that seems to be getting more press, not less. These all came out yesterday, from both sides of the political spectrum.


Another Ammoland article here (Mark Walters, vocal 2A advocate and talk show host) - https://www.ammoland.com/2019/04/to-nra-or-not-to-nra/#axzz5mCxECsu1

Washington Times - https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/apr/24/nra-legal-troubles-trump-support-drain-finances/

NY Post - https://nypost.com/2019/04/25/nra-members-clash-over-whether-group-has-become-too-political/

 

[Sytes]

Ammo article says, "bad gateway 502"

Edit added:
The Washington Times article seems to be a bit less, "Shock and Awe" and more balanced. Not near the drama played out in other articles read.

 

[LuketheDog]

NRA has gone from a political activist organization that cared about gun rights to a fund raising organization that only cares about lining the pockets of its executives.

Flip the coin and you have the HSUS...