NRA On The Hot Seat - Exposed or Attacked?

[BackofBeyond]

Spot on. I TAKE them hunting if they will go. I TAKE them shooting to shoot whatever they want. I love to show them my old guns. It is easier to get them to pick up an 1894 Marlin than a Sig M400 for the first time. Or better yet, a Winchester 1885 in .22 of course. But the point is, you RECRUIT THEM. A little at a time. And even if they don't come completely over to my side, at the very least they had a good experience and the gun didn't jump up and kill them spontaneously, and it didn't turn themselves into homicidal maniacs. So, maybe they only go from vehemently anti-gun to just sorta anti-gun. I'll take that for now. Most of them are not that vehement, and so more often they become ambivalent or better. If you can't get one of them to go but you get a couple of their friends, you still make a favorable impression. It doesn't happen overnight. It happens as you make opportunity for it to happen.

Anyway, the only way the war can be won is to recruit the "enemy". You cannot overwhelm the "enemy" and win. You will just fight another day. And, to start, I'll quit calling them the "enemy" 'cuz they ain't.

Exactly what I try to do. I have a cousin that is one of the "radical left" boogeyman that we're all so scared of. Her and I had a heated conversation about guns once, which got us no where. The next time she came for a visit I tried a different tact - I asked her to go shooting with me, in hopes that she would understand that a firearm is a mechanical device; plain and simple; no more inherently dangerous than a kitchen knife, a vehicle, a beer can, or whatever. I also (calmly this time) shared my opinion that banning guns doesn't fix the problem - gun violence is just a symptom. The diseases - which I believe are institutionalized poverty, and a mental health care crisis - are what we really need to be fixing. Why treat just a symptom, when you can address the root cause?

She ended up going shooting with me. Started her the same way my dad did, Cooper's Rules and a .22 - she declined to move up to anything bigger than that, but did admit to having fun by the end. Did I change her mind? Not really, but she moved a little closer to understanding my side of the street, and I hers.

There's no 100% win in this debate, both sides are going to have to give as much as they get, and it starts over a cup of coffee; calm, rational debate; and understanding.

 

[Rainer]

Now could it also be that the NRA and the Republican Party were completely unwilling to negotiate on anything with Democrats, which has pushed them to two extreme views? When the evil Obama for 6 years tried to get simple universal background checks or closing the gun show loop hole. The NRA and Republicans dug in and refused everything. It could have shown some good faith if they could negotiate anything. TBH the NRA and firearm manufactures should thank Obama, sales skyrocketed for them everytime he said the word gun. With gun violence on the rise and the puppets of the NRA not likely to be winning their seats back. Were going to see how the sausage is made in the NRA

 

[Sytes]

Yeesh! Haha!

This could... is a thread primed political hot potato if ever.

If Democrats were to... meh, no matter.

Many great folks that have worked hard within the NRA. Hopefully we come away with a stronger force against the anti 2A crowd.
God knows we need it.

 

[Glockster]

Now could it also be that the NRA and the Republican Party were completely unwilling to negotiate on anything with Democrats, which has pushed them to two extreme views? When the evil Obama for 6 years tried to get simple universal background checks or closing the gun show loop hole.

Ubc and gun show loopholes are the same thing. They want to ban private sales.
So you oppose private sales?

in my experience negotiations usually involve some form of give-and-take. I give in on this. I get this in return. Antigun only wants to take. They want to give nothing in return. Their idea of negotiations is we take this piece right now you get to keep what you have and then will come back later to take that.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Other groups? https://www.pewpewtactical.com/nra-alternatives/

Definitely looking at options for alternate 2A voice, but stuck with at least minimum NRA membership due to requirements at my rifle range (at least until I can get them to allow one of these other orgs an an option).

 

[antelopedundee]

Ubc and gun show loopholes are the same thing. They want to ban private sales.
So you oppose private sales?

in my experience negotiations usually involve some form of give-and-take. I give in on this. I get this in return. Antigun only wants to take. They want to give nothing in return. Their idea of negotiations is we take this piece right now you get to keep what you have and then will come back later to take that.

TBH the left has little or nothing to bring to a compromise situation.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Now could it also be that the NRA and the Republican Party were completely unwilling to negotiate on anything with Democrats, which has pushed them to two extreme views? When the evil Obama for 6 years tried to get simple universal background checks or closing the gun show loop hole. The NRA and Republicans dug in and refused everything. It could have shown some good faith if they could negotiate anything. TBH the NRA and firearm manufactures should thank Obama, sales skyrocketed for them everytime he said the word gun. With gun violence on the rise and the puppets of the NRA not likely to be winning their seats back. Were going to see how the sausage is made in the NRA

I wash my hands of both parties, but your supposition is far from the mark. The anti2A push from the left did not want compromise anymore than the right. Too much money and energized voters for either party to walk away from. Abortion and 2A are far too consistent vote and $$$$ getters for both parties to consider any compromise on two perfect wedge issues. Sad, but our reality.

 

[Losing_Sanity]

Ubc and gun show loopholes are the same thing. They want to ban private sales.
So you oppose private sales?

in my experience negotiations usually involve some form of give-and-take. I give in on this. I get this in return. Antigun only wants to take. They want to give nothing in return. Their idea of negotiations is we take this piece right now you get to keep what you have and then will come back later to take that.

The plain and simple truth of it...

 

[ignorethefringes]

Ubc and gun show loopholes are the same thing. They want to ban private sales.
So you oppose private sales?

in my experience negotiations usually involve some form of give-and-take. I give in on this. I get this in return. Antigun only wants to take. They want to give nothing in return. Their idea of negotiations is we take this piece right now you get to keep what you have and then will come back later to take that.

No, I want private sales to be as secure as the original purchase. I was to be able to sell, and purchase, firearms confident in the fact that the other party is legally able to buy, or sell, firearms.

Don't do the, "so what you're saying is...." thing. It's a poor excuse for actual conversation.

 

[Glockster]

No, I want private sales to be as secure as the original purchase. I was to be able to sell, and purchase, firearms confident in the fact that the other party is legally able to buy, or sell, firearms.

Don't do the, "so what you're saying is...." thing. It's a poor excuse for actual conversation.

Don’t do the “I support the 2nd amendment but.....“
We get cash and carry suppressors and take the SBR laws off the books and I would fully support UBC and closeing the gun show loophole.

 

[2ski]

Don’t do the “I support the 2nd amendment but.....“
We get cash and carry suppressors and take the SBR laws off the books and I would fully support UBC and closeing the gun show loophole.

The NRA would never take that stance. And they've convinced people the left is unwilling to compromise. So you don't think they will. But do you know that?

We are not at war. The left or right is not the enemy. They are a brother or sister countrymen that has a different viewpoint.

 

[ignorethefringes]

Don’t do the “I support the 2nd amendment but.....“
We get cash and carry suppressors and take the SBR laws off the books and I would fully support UBC and closeing the gun show loophole.

We all here "support the 2nd amendment but...." Everyone has a limit whether it's full auto, rocket launchers, or 30 round mags. Quit trying to make your limit the standard minimum. Your life and reasons is not my life and reasons. Your views are justified and my views are justified.

If you can't play nice amongst those of us that generally agree with you about the 2A, you aren't going to make any headway with someone who generally disagrees with you.

 

[antelopedundee]

The NRA would never take that stance. And they've convinced people the left is unwilling to compromise. So you don't think they will. But do you know that?

We are not at war. The left or right is not the enemy. They are a brother or sister countrymen that has a different viewpoint.

I think a part of the NRA's hard line stance was/is to keep WP's slush funds full of money.

 

[Trial153]

The NRA along with a host of others groups, like the DNC and RNC have learned how profitable the us vs them narrative is. I don't expect any change in that either. Just look at how it's been embraced by Joe sportman. Catering to the lowest common denominator gets us just what we got. The lowest common denominator in thoughts, actions and ideas.

 

[Sytes]

Never thought the ninth circuit would do such but...

Federal appeals court strikes down California's ban on high-capacity magazines, says restrictions violate 2nd Amendment

The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals on Friday struck down California’s ban on high-capacity magazines on the basis that its restrictions violate the Second Amendment -- noting that it would criminalize half the magazines in the U.S.

www.foxnews.com

 

[mdeerjunkie]

Never thought the ninth circuit would do such but...

Federal appeals court strikes down California's ban on high-capacity magazines, says restrictions violate 2nd Amendment

The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals on Friday struck down California’s ban on high-capacity magazines on the basis that its restrictions violate the Second Amendment -- noting that it would criminalize half the magazines in the U.S.

www.foxnews.com

That’s good to see!

 

[Mike Tomano]

The power of the NRA is crucial in legislation. That said, they are not beyond criticism or necessary upgrade. The departure of strong voices such as Chris Cox, Colion Noir and Dana Loesch threw up some red flags for me. Noir and Loesch definitely were working on the ground level and had appeal. Wayne does not. Having him be the face of The NRA is not a choice PR move. As the articles state, there indeed exists a need to address these issues. The key is to address said issues from within. Allowing and supporting the scrutiny to be handled from political opponents will be result in a harsh blow to gun-owners and The Second Amendment.

 

[Gr8bawana]

This is a much better face of the NRA right?

 

[Mike Tomano]

I wash my hands of both parties, but your supposition is far from the mark. The anti2A push from the left did not want compromise anymore than the right. Too much money and energized voters for either party to walk away from. Abortion and 2A are far too consistent vote and $$$$ getters for both parties to consider any compromise on two perfect wedge issues. Sad, but our reality.

BINGO! Guns & Abortion...the two issues that see zero compromise. The way I see it, The Right is suspicious of The Left when it comes to gun control, and rightly so. Every move is incremental, and affects only law-abiding citizens by-and-large. The heart of quelling gun violence lies in addressing lean-sentencing and early parole for recidivists. The Left throws bones to its constituents with waiting periods, clip / magazine restrictions and asinine lawsuits against manufacturers...while never doing a thing to keep children from getting killed playing in their yards (being from Chicago, this is every week.) Abortion I will not fully address, but agree that any compromise or nuanced discussion indeed gets dismissed in fear of upsetting the pro-abortion vote.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I think we should all honor @Big Fin 's request to stick to hunting, public lands, and general outdoor areas of interest during this hunting season - to leave political and social hot-button debates to other forums and other times. He locked the one most active political thread of the moment (Blue Lives Matter), but there are dozens of these older threads that could be dredged up to take its place if we don't exercise self-discipline. BigFin and Mrs. BigFin give us the gift of this forum - let's do our part to honor their simple request for the next 3-4 months and not make them constantly chase the next firefight. I have been a frequent participant in these types of discussions in the past, but I am taking a hiatus out of respect to their ask - I encourage the rest of HT to do the same.