Non-resident outfitter license (MT) Bill is up for hearing 2/2/2021 (SB 143)

[Northwoods Labs]

Gerald,

I can see your point, and you made it well. There is only one flaw to it.

The flaw comes from the fact anyone wishing to use your service can do so without first having to enter a lottery to gain privilege of so doing. You are also not limited in the number of clients you can serve. I concede we are dealing with a resource held in public trust, therefore there must be confines upon the industry.

The only argument anyone can make is that it’s not fair to “hunter Dan” from Kalamazoo who wants to DIY. So, we wind up again at the economic argument. Economically it makes sense for every NR to have to use an outfitter. This model works for Canada, the NWT’s and Indian Reservations.
Why is it nobody complains about the aforementioned? Give a Montana Outfitter a leg up on the average NR and everyone wants to cut our heads off.

Yep, out of staters can only use outfitters because it makes the most benjamins. Lets limit it even more to the wealthy and trend more and more towards a European model. Kinda funny because I'm guessing you are a red voter who drapes yourself in the flag...........talk about entitled

 

[Shangobango]

Economically it makes sense for every NR to have to use an outfitter.

For outfitters....

 

[Eric Albus]

A moratorium can’t be placed on Outfiter licenses due to some right to work law. You are correct.

Yep, out of staters can only use outfitters because it makes the most benjamins. Lets limit it even more to the wealthy and trend more and more towards a European model. Kinda funny because I'm guessing you are a red voter who drapes yourself in the flag...........talk about entitled

Entitled? Really?

 

[Big Shooter]

For outfitters....

Nope! Rural Montana and Main Street businesses in rural Montana towns 365 days a year……not just during season. If I really felt that I needed to (which I don’t) I could show you my bank statements.

 

[Eric Albus]

Why do you think that others opportunity should be limited because you want people to have to pay for your service? You chose to be an outfitter. If you cannot pay your bills and attract enough clients based upon how the system works well then maybe you chose the wrong career path. If the government has to step in to give you a “leg up” (your words) in your business well then your business plan or model is flawed.

Nobody “has to pay” for my services.

 

[Eric Albus]

Nope! Rural Montana and Main Street businesses in rural Montana towns 365 days a year……not just during season. If I really felt that I needed to (which I don’t) I could show you my bank statements.

You mean you don’t bury all that cash in a coffee can in your yard. S.O.B. Guess I’ll quit showing up at midnight and digging holes, blaming it on p-dogs.

 

[Wildabeest]

Nobody “has to pay” for my services.

Unless they want a tag.

 

[Eric Albus]

Eric,
It’s not personal, it’s just business. Whether outfitters are affected by lottery draw odds or not is irrelevant.

The precedent has been set that businesses are going to be prioritized over equal opportunity for all applicants to access public trust resources.

Finding customers for our company’s services isn’t always going to be as easy as it is now. We have way more invested in company infrastructure and employ more people than the average outfitter. We also generate way more income. Therefore we should advance to the front of the line.
If I don’t for my company, someone else will for theirs.

Good luck with economic survival of the fittest. I hope you do well. For the outfitters that get steamrolled, remember your industry paved the way and set the precedent.

Who knows? Maybe I will be able to outbid you for ranches you currently lease for your business. I know you have done a great job with managing your grounds. I’m guessing some of my clients will pay a premium for access there.

Since it’s “just business”, call me. I’m for sale. Why be stupid attempting to bid me up when you can buy me out. I will consider owner financing and give long term deal on land/lodge. This offer stands for any and all. I will reserve the right of first refusal to my guides.
This is a “gov’t guaranteed living”. Can’t miss deal. This is an offer to good to be true, what with it being a “guaranteed income”. I expect my phone to ring off the hook tonight. 64eight-seven4nine4

 

[Shangobango]

Nope! Rural Montana and Main Street businesses in rural Montana towns 365 days a year……not just during season. If I really felt that I needed to (which I don’t) I could show you my bank statements.

Uh huh. I have seen the study.

I don’t buy that DIY hunters spend less in rural Montana than outfitted ones.

They do spend less with outfitters though.

 

[Eric Albus]

Unless they want a tag.

I expect a call from you. They’re standing in line to “get a tag”. It’s a “guaranteed living” so there is no downside. Buy me out.

 

[Lyfter1013]

Nobody “has to pay” for my services.

Oh so you’ll let me Sign up as your “client” without paying for your services to increase My odds of drawing? Damn you’re a nice a guy I had you wrong all along.

 

[Eric Albus]

Uh huh. I have seen the study.

I don’t buy that DIY hunters spend less in rural Montana than outfitted ones.

They do spend less with outfitters though.

Most DIY hunters bring tents/campers food/fuel(as much as they can carry), and leave next to nothing in rural communities, they generally speaking take more than they leave.
There are exceptions to this, and as a Mt resident who does not directly benefit I will thank those who leave more than they take.

 

[Shangobango]

Most DIY hunters bring tents/campers food/fuel(as much as they can carry), and leave next to nothing in rural communities, they generally speaking take more than they leave.
There are exceptions to this, and as a Mt resident who does not directly benefit I will thank those who leave more than they take.

Fair enough.

I sure try to enjoy the local people and culture as much as possible when I travel to hunt. Not that I didn’t bring a lot of supplies with me, but I sure spent a ton on them while I was up there last fall too.

 

[Wildabeest]

I expect a call from you. They’re standing in line to “get a tag”. It’s a “guaranteed living” so there is no downside. Buy me out.

If I wanted to do an outfitted hunt in your area, I would call you. I respect the manner in which you conduct yourself here, and would happily do business with you if I wanted or needed guide services. But I won’t call you, nor should I have to, simply to get a tag for rights to a public resource that ought to be equally available to any NR resident hunter. I’ll either hunt B tags that I can more easily draw (which is what I’m doing this year) or not hunt MT.

 

[Wildabeest]

Most DIY hunters bring tents/campers food/fuel(as much as they can carry), and leave next to nothing in rural communities, they generally speaking take more than they leave.
There are exceptions to this, and as a Mt resident who does not directly benefit I will thank those who leave more than they take.

This narrative is getting pretty tired. It’s exaggerated at best, blatantly false at worst. I’ll stack my MT spending up to any of your clients.

 

[mtmuley]

. I’ll stack my MT spending up to any of your clients.

Don't you have property here in Montana? mtmuley

 

[Wildabeest]

Don't you have property here in Montana? mtmuley

Yep. I’m one of those hated absentee landowners with my two massive 20 acre tracts that I strategically purchased to cut off public access to public lands (kidding). Costs of acquiring and maintaining those properties are not included in my statement.

Maybe it’s just me, but I’d hypothesize that DIY hunters are more likely to visit the state outside of hunting season, or stay longer during hunting season, for scouting and such. I know that I definitely do. Was just up there July 4 weekend and did drop some coin at local businesses. Will be back at least one more time, more likely twice, before season.

My idea of a guided trip is that someone else is doing much of the prep work, and I just show up and hunt. Given the guide’s knowledge and services, I would think you could also tag out faster, thus spending even less time/money in the state. Unless you shoot dinks and does like me…. That doesn’t take very long .

 

[mtmuley]

So, yeah. You spend more than an outfitter hunter. Not a fair comparison. But, whatever. mtmuley

 

[Wildabeest]

So, yeah. You spend more than an outfitter hunter. Not a fair comparison. But, whatever. mtmuley

Not sure why it’s not a fair comparison. If not for wanting to hunt in MT, I would not own those properties.

MOGA keeps pushing this narrative that outfitted hunters spend FAR more money in the state than DIY. I don’t buy that argument - either for me personally or collectively as groups. As I stated originally, I think their claims in that regard are either grossly exaggerated or patent false.

 

[mtmuley]

How much time do you spend here in Montana hunting? You own the property. You may spend more than an outfitter hunter, but the guy that drives here with a tent doesn't. mtmuley