Non-resident outfitter license (MT) Bill is up for hearing 2/2/2021 (SB 143)

[Wildabeest]

How much time do you spend here in Montana hunting? You own the property. You may spend more than an outfitter hunter, but the guy that drives here with a tent doesn't. mtmuley

Generally spend 2 weeks hunting (first week and last week of season) and then 3-4 long weekends throughout the year. I want to scout what I’m going to hunt as much as possible, and also explore new areas when it’s not hunting season. But perhaps I’m an anomaly.

 

[brockel]

Not much for outfitter money being spent in baker Montana. Can’t say the same about non resident DIY hunters

 

[Buffs35]

If the argument is what type of NR spends more, which it shouldn't be, then just get it over with and auction off tags to the highest bidder.

 

[Shangobango]

This narrative is getting pretty tired. It’s exaggerated at best, blatantly false at worst. I’ll stack my MT spending up to any of your clients.

Yea, the only way that the narrative works for me is if they are assuming that the majority of the DIY hunters are bringing in the vast majority of their supplies, spending all their nights in a tent, and are not venturing out into the communities.

I personally don’t think that is the case, but I will defer to those with more knowledge on that subject.

I do know that I spent a lot of money in Broadus, Ashland, and Billings while I was there in my tent. Hotels, fuel, supplies, etc.

 

[JLS]

I’m not sure I buy the carte blanche statement that outfitted hunters spend more than your typical nonresident DIY Hunter, but whatever. At the end of the day, subsidizing one service industry at the expense of all the others is complete ridiculousness. Good for the outfitters, sucks for all the industries that cater more to your DIY Hunter.

 

[brownbear932008]

It's all about the Benjamin's people the sooner you realize it the easier it will be to make your decision. It really is a shame this is what hunting has come down to. But to be expected because we are our own worst enemies.

 

[BuzzH]

Most DIY hunters bring tents/campers food/fuel(as much as they can carry), and leave next to nothing in rural communities, they generally speaking take more than they leave.
There are exceptions to this, and as a Mt resident who does not directly benefit I will thank those who leave more than they take.

What a load of crap...even you can't believe that.

 

[BuzzH]

How much time do you spend here in Montana hunting? You own the property. You may spend more than an outfitter hunter, but the guy that drives here with a tent doesn't. mtmuley

I think you're making assumptions about outfitted clients.

A client that flies into Billings, gets picked up by the outfitter and scurried off to some lodge to shoot a rut crazed mule deer buck in a hayfield as quick as possible...then shuffled off back to the airport ASAP...how much money does that guy spend on hotels, groceries, junk food at the gas station, restaurants, fuel, etc?

ZERO.

To ice the cake, the outfitter and guide that they paid may not even live in Montana and take a vast majority of their income back to where they live.

 

[Eric Albus]

I’m not sure I buy the carte blanche statement that outfitted hunters spend more than your typical nonresident DIY Hunter, but whatever. At the end of the day, subsidizing one service industry at the expense of all the others is complete ridiculousness. Good for the outfitters, sucks for all the industries that cater more to your DIY

What all fail to see is the forest for the trees.
There won’t be more or less of either DIY or outfitted hunters. The outfitting industry has been taking about the same number since the days of the OSL, around 7500-8000. This number hasn’t changed and isn’t going to. The only thing that may change is the draw odds for the unguided NR. More DIY guys competing for the same number of tags.
My guess is that once the pandemic hysteria wears off and the economy tanks there will be left over unsold license in Montana.

 

[BuzzH]

What all fail to see is the forest for the trees.
There won’t be more or less of either DIY or outfitted hunters. The outfitting industry has been taking about the same number since the days of the OSL, around 7500-8000. This number hasn’t changed and isn’t going to. The only thing that may change is the draw odds for the unguided NR. More DIY guys competing for the same number of tags.
My guess is that once the pandemic hysteria wears off and the economy tanks there will be left over unsold license in Montana.

You aren't paying attention...application records have been broken year after year for the last decade, long before the pandemic, the trajectory was/is going only one direction.

That should be good news for you.

 

[Eric Albus]

I think you're making assumptions about outfitted clients.

A client that flies into Billings, gets picked up by the outfitter and scurried off to some lodge to shoot a rut crazed mule deer buck in a hayfield as quick as possible...then shuffled off back to the airport ASAP...how much money does that guy spend on hotels, groceries, junk food at the gas station, restaurants, fuel, etc?

ZERO.

To ice the cake, the outfitter and guide that they paid may not even live in Montana and take a vast majority of their income back to where they live.

None of MT Res Outfitters like that a NR can hold a license in Montana either. I’m not sure how many there actually are, I know of 3 off top my head.

I’ve talked with dozens of DIY guys, they spend on average $1200-2000 on their hunt to Montana counting license.
It’s not even close to which segment spends more.
Read my above post, the number of DIY guys stays the same as does the number of outfitter clients. Outfitters have taken the same numbers for about 20-25 yrs now. Static industry.

 

[Eric Albus]

You aren't paying attention...application records have been broken year after year for the last decade, long before the pandemic, the trajectory was/is going only one direction.

That should be good news for you.

As I pointed out, odds be longer for a DIY guy as they won’t have access to the whole license pool. At least until the market and economy tank. With inflation on the rise, fuel prices climbing, and all the business killing this administration is doing it shouldn’t be long until there are left over license again.

 

[BuzzH]

None of MT Res Outfitters like that a NR can hold a license in Montana either. I’m not sure how many there actually are, I know of 3 off top my head.

I’ve talked with dozens of DIY guys, they spend on average $1200-2000 on their hunt to Montana counting license.
It’s not even close to which segment spends more.
Read my above post, the number of DIY guys stays the same as does the number of outfitter clients. Outfitters have taken the same numbers for about 20-25 yrs now. Static industry.

They must be driving a prius, eating bird seed, and live about a mile from the MT border to only spend $1200-$2000 including a license. Combo license alone is $1052 isnt it?

You're going to actually have me believe the average NR DIY hunter is only spending $148 dollars in Montana when hunting here?

I filled my work truck yesterday...$107.

Could be all those DIY NR hunters are lying to the old-lady about the cost I reckon.

 

[mtmiller]

As I pointed out, odds be longer for a DIY guy as they won’t have access to the whole license pool. At least until the market and economy tank. With inflation on the rise, fuel prices climbing, and all the business killing this administration is doing it shouldn’t be long until there are left over license again.

Losing the debate, change the narrative.

 

[JLS]

You're going to actually have me believe the average NR hunter is only spending $148 dollars in Montana when hunting here?

Absolutely laughable. This discussion has reached ground zero for ridiculousness.

 

[Shangobango]

I’ve talked with dozens of DIY guys, they spend on average $1200-2000 on their hunt to Montana counting license

I just can’t believe that is the case.

You must have found a group of tightwads to talk to

I had about 800 dollars worth of license in my pocket with a deer combo, a deer B, and a turkey tag. How in the heck could the average hunter stay somewhere for 7 to 14 days and not spend any more than 400 bucks on fuel, snacks, the odd restaurant meal, etc?

I guess I can see it if someone is doing a strict backcountry style hunt and only stopping on the way in and out.

I think I said it before but I really need to reassess my spending habits while traveling if I am spending that much more than average.

 

[BuzzH]

I just can’t believe that is the case.

You must have found a group of tightwads to talk to

I had about 800 dollars worth of license in my pocket with a deer combo, a deer B, and a turkey tag. How in the heck could the average hunter stay somewhere for 7 to 14 days and not spend any more than 400 bucks on fuel, snacks, the odd restaurant meal, etc?

I guess I can see it if someone is doing a strict backcountry style hunt and only stopping on the way in and out.

I think I said it before but I really need to reassess my spending habits while traveling if I am spending that much more than average.

Right...when I figure in expenses, the NR license is, at best, half of the total cost of a DIY NR hunt.

I should keep track of the money I spend hunting a coues deer in December in AZ...just what I spend in AZ. Going to be more than $148 I can assure you. I don't think I can even get there for $148...

 

[JLS]

I spent way more than $148 just to do a few days of bird hunting the last time I hunted Montana.

Maybe some of these guys have 400 qt coolers and auxiliary fuel tanks. You know, since they bring everything with them.

Upon reflection, I think I should get a guaranteed license because of all the money I’ve spent in Helena while helping my mother in law with her house.

 

[BuzzH]

I spent way more than $148 just to do a few days of bird hunting the last time I hunted Montana.

Maybe some of these guys have 400 qt coolers and auxiliary fuel tanks. You know, since they bring everything with them.

I shot a pronghorn a few years back, I could see my house from where I shot it...I hunted 3-4 days and probably spent $100 on fuel alone. Don't recall, but I more than likely spent another $20 on fancy coffee on my way out of town.

 

[Dakota79]

I think you're making assumptions about outfitted clients.

A client that flies into Billings, gets picked up by the outfitter and scurried off to some lodge to shoot a rut crazed mule deer buck in a hayfield as quick as possible...then shuffled off back to the airport ASAP...how much money does that guy spend on hotels, groceries, junk food at the gas station, restaurants, fuel, etc?

ZERO.

To ice the cake, the outfitter and guide that they paid may not even live in Montana and take a vast majority of their income back to where they live.

I have no dog in this fight but I think zero is not absolutely true. From the time the client arrives and leaves doesn't the outfitter have to buy all of the supplies to keep them there therefore spending money in the local economy?