Non-resident outfitter license (MT) Bill is up for hearing 2/2/2021 (SB 143)

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I did quite a little math...if lived in MT I might give up hunting and revert to backcountry yoga for the rest of my life.
 
I don't support SB bill 143. I look at this bill in a hypothetical way. My best friend and hunting buddy is my youngest son. Some day after college Dylan will go out into the job world that will either keep him here in Montana or move him out of state. There are the come home to hunt tags, they are not always available, I believe first come first serve. My oldest boy was born out of Montana, moved out to make a better living. We are seeing more and more of our children move out of Montana because they cannot afford to either here or they cannot pass up the opportunity at a great paying job. SB 143 at 60% of 17000 is 10200 tags go to outfitters leaving a pool 6800 tags to family, friends and DIY hunters. I love having my family & friends come to hunt with me. So now even at the 17000 tags they are not guaranteed to draw. I can't agree with that, it pisses me off and it is greedy. I own a archery business that pays for my habits of hounds and bow hunting to pay for just my hunting and give back to the hunting community in a lot of different ways. I also work a regular job to pay the bills. So many of the outfitters are really good friends of mine also. I think it great have the vets in the bill, but the was a ploy to make a bad bill look good. What will this do to our Block Management land, that is what bothers me most about this bill. In the last session there was a bill that limited DIY houndsmen from coming to montana also, limiting those to 35 total, friends and family to me, another MOGA bill. I also fear what this will do to the Block Management Land, a rancher would have to be a fool not to take the outfitters money to lease, they will have a guaranteed clients.
 
Big Shooter said:
So.....you fellas are telling me that you SUPPORT Hunt Clubs, which at the end of the day lease private as well as operate on YOUR public ground?? I will guarantee that most of you on here are not familiar with the rules and regulations that pertain to outfitters, and I get that. I personally think there should be more as it will have ZERO affect on guys like Albus and myself and a lot of others that we call friends. But it amazes me that many of you support the ideologies of Hunt Clubs!! Unfortunately, Hunt Clubs are not considered illegal in our state, but should be because they don’t require the same stipulations that LICENSED outfitters do. But most of you think that’s fine!! Fair enough! When our clients pay the state for a tag, pay our price, tip our guides......that money stays right here within the borders of Montana.....(going to be transparent here) for the most part. Where do you suppose the money that Albus and I and all of the others, that we pay our landowners, guides, cooks, mechanics, bulk fuel providers, taxidermists....what not....the list goes on and on, goes at the end of the day?? Again.....stays within the borders of Montana versus going out of state and into the bank account of some long, stringy haired assclown from out of state!! I apologize for going off on this...but for shit sakes......pay attention here! Is this bill perfect? Hell no!! And Eric and I will agree with you on this, but at least we are held to a higher standard, in regards to reporting, than those jackasses.
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Rod,

If this is actually your argument then you are going to end in a circular firing squad, IMO.

1. I know for a fact not every guide spends all their Money in Montana as I know for a fact many come from out of state to guide hunters for Outfitters. LOTS of taxidermy work goes out of state. I own a business and I spend almost all the money earned here in state, I pay my taxes locally to support schools, roads, etc etc. I buy my fuel here, I hire local carpenters to work on my house, etc etc and I live here 24-7-365 not just during hunting season, just like every other resident hunter does, so that argument holds no water with me.

2. You are sort of talking out of both sides of your mouth when it comes to a predictable business model. You want YOUR business to be predictable but the other guy who is currently within the bounds of the current system should have his business completely rearranged. Having lived in the times of covid, I have very little sympathy for people who believe they are owed a predictable business model of any kind.

3. If said hunting club has entered into a lease with a landowner and both sides signed a contract that both sides freely agreed to WTF difference does it make to you whether said lease holder speaks their mind in a public forum stating their opinion? That smacks of not being in favor of one of our basic freedoms. I disagree with him on hunting clubs but I also disagree with your take on it too. I would fight like hell to be able to continue to allow both of you to voice your right to free speech on the matter.

4. It appears to me that this bill was intended to inflame and rile everyone given that MOGA dropped the bill with zero attempts to reach out to a single resident or non resident hunting group, conservation group or even had a ready explanation as to why this bill was a solution looking for a problem to solve. Have any outfitters gone out of business due to an inability to continue to book clients? I am talking pre covid.

5. If you, MOGA and Mac, knew 60% wasn't the number and believe WAY less than that number of tags was acceptable then why throw it at the wall unless you hoped it would stick? Did you think everyone else in Montana is stupid or can't use math? MOGA, and Mac, never seem to want to explain to resident hunters that they could work together in order to find a viable alternative, instead Mac looked at the make up the House and Senate and our Gov. and said, "let's try to get 60% of all NR tags and we don't give two $HITS what those whiney resident hunters have to say about". "If we can grab 60% let's just shoot for the moon but if we get less that at least we tried to be hogs at the trough".

You do realize that resident hunters could be an ally to Outfitters or that you could at least make resident hunters not be out right opponents by stressing first, the things that Outfitters and Resident hunters both agree on? Instead it is always MOGA's and Mac's intent to work in the back rooms and dark alleys and treat resident hunters as your enemies. Ergo the results.

Now I support Outfitters, I support their continued success, I believe they have an important place in our communities, they provide a valuable service and most of them that I have been around not only work hard to make their businesses a success but are good people. MOGA and Mac do you zero favors though in the eyes of the average Joe Montana Resident hunter given the things they try to pull and hope nobody notices.
 
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idahohuntr said:
Another idea...tie BM enrollment/public access to the outfitter allocation. Decreases in public access = statutory decrease in tag allocation to outfitters.
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1% of the tags for every million acres on Block Management. Anything less than 10 million acres in Block Management means 0% outfitters tags.
 
Wildabeast said:
You clicked on it? 😲😲😲😲

See post #837 about education... :ROFLMAO:
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Anyone who clicks a Greenhorn link with the word Barry in it the second time might be traumatized by the experience but they can’t say they didn’t know what was probably going to happen and they didn’t expect to like it.

Kind of like MT resident hunters who think the SB 143 is going to make hunting better for them. There was a reason we got rid of guaranteed outfitter licenses ten years ago. The second go around isn’t going to be better.
 
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