Non-resident outfitter license (MT) Bill is up for hearing 2/2/2021 (SB 143)

[LostinOregon1]

So, do any of you DIY, anti-outfitters guys eat seafood? Because here in Oregon the big fight is between Native Americans, commercial fisherman and the DIY for the salmon, crab and other seafood quotas. Are you DIY guys going to jump on board with the DIY crowd in the NW to take away the commercial fisherman allocations, after all, it belongs to the people and they make a living off of a public resource. You don't need any seafood anyway. This little skirmish on this board pails in comparison to the fight going on here for several decades. It has been downright nasty.

The more I read the complaints it isn't that the NR DIY is getting screwed, its that the land is locked up and the outfitters are to blame. Everyone sees more wildlife on private than public, the difference is that not everything that walks on private is killed.

Rich

 

[HighCountryCommando]

Whose penny did I spend when planting feed and cover for deer/birds?

If your getting farm subsidies than I guess your spending my pennies.

 

[Eric Albus]

To be honest I have read every comment on this whole thread multiple times. The amount of vitriol and hatred spewed towards NR DIY hunters out weighs the few comments I would deem as hatred towards outfitters.

I don't think any of us opposed to this bill or any of the other garbage bills had any "hatred" for outfitters just hatred towards the game and way it was tried to be rammed through.

I have no hatred towards NR DIY guys, I've been one myself.

 

[Eric Albus]

If your getting farm subsidies than I guess your spending my pennies.

If you step back and look at subsidies you will recognize that I may be the direct beneficiary of said payments. If you eat store bought bread, or buy any of your food in grocery store, you are the indirect beneficiary of the subsidy by having low priced food. Low priced food has been a must in our nation. Cheap food equates into people having more money for recreation. A populous that recreates is a happy and sedentary population. When people have to pay high prices for food and many go hungry you have civil unrest. Our Gov't is way ahead on this curve. Keep people fed, recreating and happy, they pay taxes and life is good.

 

[Eric Albus]

So, do any of you DIY, anti-outfitters guys eat seafood? Because here in Oregon the big fight is between Native Americans, commercial fisherman and the DIY for the salmon, crab and other seafood quotas. Are you DIY guys going to jump on board with the DIY crowd in the NW to take away the commercial fisherman allocations, after all, it belongs to the people and they make a living off of a public resource. You don't need any seafood anyway. This little skirmish on this board pails in comparison to the fight going on here for several decades. It has been downright nasty.

The more I read the complaints it isn't that the NR DIY is getting screwed, its that the land is locked up and the outfitters are to blame. Everyone sees more wildlife on private than public, the difference is that not everything that walks on private is killed.

Rich

Rich, I do believe you win the Cigar!! Your point hits the nail squarely on the head.

The average Montana R hunter hates NR DIY guys just as much as they hate outfitters. Sit down at the local coffee shop, sporting goods store, or local watering hole and listen to their conversation. Here in Eastern Montana the local hunters actually hate the NR a little less than the western MT R hunters that show up.

The End.

 

[Eric Albus]

There are outfitters I appreciate and respect 100%...and now I can think of two particular operations I hate, and that have lit a fire under me to fight this BS in the west with what time and money I can spare. So thanks @Big Shooter and @Eric Albus for that.

Glad to be an inspiration. Life lived without passion is a life wasted.

 

[Eric Albus]

I had interpreted that description to mean cover & habitat improvement, not production crops. My mistake.

My family has always left some for the wildlife. My great grandfather and grandfather both felt that helping the wildlife was a good thing. We’ve always ranched and farmed in a manner to not harm the wildlife, this well before outfitting.
When/if I retire from outfitting, we will continue to “ranch/farm for wildlife”.

 

[Eric Albus]

And again there are outfitters that I absolutely respect. They aren’t the ones pushing this back door nonsense.

There will be those outfitters who paw the sod and say they don’t like what happened but I bet they use it.
I don’t particularly like how it happened, and I’m not sure I like what we got. I haven’t had time to absorb all the unintended consequences.

 

[antlerradar]

If you step back and look at subsidies you will recognize that I may be the direct beneficiary of said payments. If you eat store bought bread, or buy any of your food in grocery store, you are the indirect beneficiary of the subsidy by having low priced food. Low priced food has been a must in our nation. Cheap food equates into people having more money for recreation. A populous that recreates is a happy and sedentary population. When people have to pay high prices for food and many go hungry you have civil unrest. Our Gov't is way ahead on this curve. Keep people fed, recreating and happy, they pay taxes and life is good.

Eric is more right than wrong on the economics of farm subsidies. If anything he is over stating the benefit to farmers.

 

[WIbiggame]

What the Hell is 147? Did I miss a bill??

Typo I am sorry 143 is what I meant to type. I see we are back to saying how much R hate NR. I have not met 1 resident sportsman or business owner who wasn't more than nice to me. Have made several friends at the trailhead who are residents.

 

[WIbiggame]

There will be those outfitters who paw the sod and say they don’t like what happened but I bet they use it.
I don’t particularly like how it happened, and I’m not sure I like what we got. I haven’t had time to absorb all the unintended consequences.

I asked earlier and you didn't answer did you get any clients out of the 3000 extra tags?

 

[Big Shooter]

Typo I am sorry 143 is what I meant to type. I see we are back to saying how much R hate NR. I have not met 1 resident sportsman or business owner who wasn't more than nice to me. Have made several friends at the trailhead who are residents.

I knew that. Just giving you a hard time. Believe me sir, there are plenty of resident sportsman that have a large distaste for the nonresident. But, with that being said, the landowner community would probably prefer the NR due to the lack of respect and sense of entitlement that comes from some residents. Before anyone can say it....yes, I’m painting with a broad brush, just making a point.

 

[Straight Arrow]

I knew that. Just giving you a hard time. Believe me sir, there are plenty of resident sportsman that have a large distaste for the nonresident. But, with that being said, the landowner community would probably prefer the NR due to the lack of respect and sense of entitlement that comes from some residents. Before anyone can say it....yes, I’m painting with a broad brush, just making a point.

Understood, but an invalid point based solely on skewed opinion, convenient to personal ideology. Certainly not factual or supported by evidence.
BTW, no one here "hates" you. I do hate it when someone says they are hated because of disagreement and opposing opinion. Childish "sucker throwing" logic!

 

[Gerald Martin]

There are plenty of people who dislike anyone they feel is competitive with them for what they want.
All this rhetoric of who hates who more is juvenile.

Big Shooter mentioned he and the other outfitters couldn’t figure out the “hate” for outfitters and decided it has to do with access.

Let me remove the guessing for you by being specific (again) in what I oppose.

I oppose the priority of allocation of access to wildlife resources to commercial use. Outfitters should not get priority for licenses.
I “hate” the methods that the outfitting industry uses via MOGA lobbying the MT legislature to pass bills that they believe will benefit them without concern for how it affect the resource and other public trust shareholders.
I “hate” the entitlement mentality that is expressed by every outfitter I have known personally and have seen expressed in FWP meetings and online debates. “We deserve priority because we bring more money into MT than the DIY hunters do.”
I “hate” the effects that legislation the outfitting industry has supported and passed has on the quality of my hunting experience.
I don’t “hate” outfitting or outfitters and guides for trying to offer a legitimate service to willing customers.

But, my appreciation for them in the sphere of competition with other shareholders is waning the more experience I have with the industry and outfitters as a whole.

 

[Gerald Martin]

It’s not about access to hunt private property.
That’s a completely separate discussion.

 

[JEL]

https://helenair.com/news/state-and...3b6ea59.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1

Gov has signed it.

 

[Gerald Martin]

https://helenair.com/news/state-and...3b6ea59.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1

Gov has signed it.

That’s a shocker.Never saw that coming. (Sarcasm)

 

[Eric Albus]

I asked earlier and you didn't answer did you get any clients out of the 3000 extra tags?

Of course I did. Doesn’t mean I have to like it

 

[JEL]

That’s a shocker.Never saw that coming. (Sarcasm)

Thankfully he included a letter to correct all this misinformation.

 

[BuzzH]

If you step back and look at subsidies you will recognize that I may be the direct beneficiary of said payments. If you eat store bought bread, or buy any of your food in grocery store, you are the indirect beneficiary of the subsidy by having low priced food. Low priced food has been a must in our nation. Cheap food equates into people having more money for recreation. A populous that recreates is a happy and sedentary population. When people have to pay high prices for food and many go hungry you have civil unrest. Our Gov't is way ahead on this curve. Keep people fed, recreating and happy, they pay taxes and life is good.

What a joke...justifying welfare seems to be all the moves you have.

I'm not opposed to all subsidies, but your claim here that keeping people "fed" through farm subsidies is a joke.

Yeah, lets subsidize a business that creates "cheap" food via corn, wheat, etc. to produce boat loads of processed/cheap shit, being pawned off as food. "Food" that creates a boat-load of health issues for those lowest on the economic scale.

I wish I were in charge of things for a week...I'd subsidize farming, but it wouldn't be corn, wheat, etc. farmers. It would be farmers producing a product that didn't induce diabetes, heart problems, etc. etc. etc.

Right on que, I see you also took your outfitter subsidy/welfare...as if I expected any less.